Om617 overheating
Om617 overheating
Cstolaircraft
06-30-2017, 05:21 PM #1I have a om617 turbo in a Toyota pickup I can drive in town and all over back roads and never over heat but as soon as I get on the hwy it heats up and sometimes blows water out the cap. I have a extra t stat house that I am thinking about modifying so I can run it with out a t stat. Anyone ever have this problem? Stock mb radiator
Only thing I can recommend is a good flush out of the whole cooling system and maybe shove the biggest rad you can in the front as that radiator wasn't designed for cooling a "truck"?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
No thermostat won't help...bypass water is uncontrolled then.
Only thing I can recommend is a good flush out of the whole cooling system and maybe shove the biggest rad you can in the front as that radiator wasn't designed for cooling a "truck"?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Cstolaircraft
07-01-2017, 10:03 PM #4New radiator rebuilt motor.... maybe I need to rebuild the water pump... still strange it only does it on the hwy. I can run 60 on the back roads all day never over heat hit 70 on the hwy and goes right up.
But i can't help at distance. If coolant is clean is not gasket related. Nevertheless checking that with CO marker is the best way to go.
Of course may be something else like cracked head and other related matters
Regards.
FD,
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Well , either way u have a heating issue on hands weather it is weak heat transfer from rad , or engine related.
But i can't help at distance. If coolant is clean is not gasket related. Nevertheless checking that with CO marker is the best way to go.
Of course may be something else like cracked head and other related matters
Regards.
FD,
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You should still replace your waterpump, thermostat & flush your system nonetheless.
Also, do you have an intercooler? Oil cooler? Auto trans cooler? A/C condenser?
If so, are any of these blocking the flow of air to your radiator? Is the Toyota grill smaller than MB?
Let us know the color of your water/oil & that'll help with the diagnosis.
If your motor still has its original clutched fan, try deleting it for an electric fan that moves more cfm.
You should still replace your waterpump, thermostat & flush your system nonetheless.
Also, do you have an intercooler? Oil cooler? Auto trans cooler? A/C condenser?
If so, are any of these blocking the flow of air to your radiator? Is the Toyota grill smaller than MB?
Let us know the color of your water/oil & that'll help with the diagnosis.
Cstolaircraft
07-02-2017, 09:25 PM #8I have an oil cooler in front of the radiator along with an ac condenser. A.c. is not hooked up at the moment. It's mated to a 5spd so no transmission cooler. I am running 2 1000cfm electric fans hard wired to a switch. Sounds like i need to order a new water pump
That is mind gobling to say the least.
Anyway i honestly hope it is that.
Btw how much fuel is on that pump? It might be just to much load. Some 605/6 heat up with the superpumps despite showing rather low EGT'S
FD,
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Heating in the highway and u suspect the fan?
That is mind gobling to say the least.
Anyway i honestly hope it is that.
Btw how much fuel is on that pump? It might be just to much load. Some 605/6 heat up with the superpumps despite showing rather low EGT'S
FD,
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(07-02-2017, 07:58 AM)CRD4x4 If your motor still has its original clutched fan, try deleting it for an electric fan that moves more cfm.An electric fan will never move more than the mechanical.
You should still replace your waterpump, thermostat & flush your system nonetheless.
Also, do you have an intercooler? Oil cooler? Auto trans cooler? A/C condenser?
If so, are any of these blocking the flow of air to your radiator? Is the Toyota grill smaller than MB?
Let us know the color of your water/oil & that'll help with the diagnosis.
(07-02-2017, 07:58 AM)CRD4x4 If your motor still has its original clutched fan, try deleting it for an electric fan that moves more cfm.An electric fan will never move more than the mechanical.
You should still replace your waterpump, thermostat & flush your system nonetheless.
Also, do you have an intercooler? Oil cooler? Auto trans cooler? A/C condenser?
If so, are any of these blocking the flow of air to your radiator? Is the Toyota grill smaller than MB?
Let us know the color of your water/oil & that'll help with the diagnosis.
Cstolaircraft
07-04-2017, 03:34 AM #11SO i checked the thermostat and changed water pump I also added and extra oil cooler 7.5x12.5 as what I was using was small (7x9). Took it for a drive and pulled out on the hwy and it heated up again. water came out green when I drained the rad. I just put a new head and gasket on it so I am not really concerned about the head gasket. The truck has 4.56 gears and 33 inch tires. with the gasser at 70 I was running a hair under 3 k. Right now out on the hwy to hold 75 it is pretty much floored. If I drop a gear it doesn't seam to give any better power. I have read about timing causing heating problems I set the ip timing to 13atdc with the pump locked. A couple years ago I drove a 300d and pulling the same hills I went from 65 to 80 pretty easy where with this truck I am flat out on the mat just bearly making it no matter what gear I am in. truck should weigh about the same as the car.
U have 617A engine, correct?
Pump is MW type with 7.5mm , at wich output? cc? is the pump set for cutout at wich RPM?
Engine overheats in highway at 4k and flored?
How much is boost press and EGT? u have an idea?
How much overheating temp? Is the Cooling circuit overpress valve in good shape?
Maybe i´m seeing a picture where u just have the engine too loaded , and like this of course it will heat up.
reason may be when u drive outside the highway u regulate the speed by THR , and in the highway u floor it , and when flored the load Spring is compressed and the variable speed governor has no efecct and load the engine to much...
The other thing is the timing, too advanced and too retarded is not good... as a 4x4 u would like to have it slightly retarded, that causes overheating by pumping loss in high RPM, if its slightly advanced engine looses tq in low and heat up in low and smokes bwn. But it pushes well in high and EGT should be lower... consequently should run cooler.
I have one RMX 450 motorcycle, and it was puting coolant out , wich very often i had to ride with backpack wit coolant... it ended up being the radiator cap. a 10€ aftermarket cap.
good luck
FD,
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Sorry but something is missing here...
U have 617A engine, correct?
Pump is MW type with 7.5mm , at wich output? cc? is the pump set for cutout at wich RPM?
Engine overheats in highway at 4k and flored?
How much is boost press and EGT? u have an idea?
How much overheating temp? Is the Cooling circuit overpress valve in good shape?
Maybe i´m seeing a picture where u just have the engine too loaded , and like this of course it will heat up.
reason may be when u drive outside the highway u regulate the speed by THR , and in the highway u floor it , and when flored the load Spring is compressed and the variable speed governor has no efecct and load the engine to much...
The other thing is the timing, too advanced and too retarded is not good... as a 4x4 u would like to have it slightly retarded, that causes overheating by pumping loss in high RPM, if its slightly advanced engine looses tq in low and heat up in low and smokes bwn. But it pushes well in high and EGT should be lower... consequently should run cooler.
I have one RMX 450 motorcycle, and it was puting coolant out , wich very often i had to ride with backpack wit coolant... it ended up being the radiator cap. a 10€ aftermarket cap.
good luck
FD,
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Cstolaircraft
07-04-2017, 04:24 AM #15yes I have om617a with k26 turbo. I am not sure exactly what the temps are. it will blow the radiator cap just after reaching the redline. around town it sits right about where the original gasser was so I am guessing thats about 160-170 degrees
Changed water pump, head gasket, multiple thermostats, rad cap... no real difference. Next thing I am thinking it might possibly be a collapsing rad hose that I cobbled together, but have not had a chance to mess with it.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem but wish you weren't in this boat too.
Good luck and keep us posted if you can crack the code.
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I have a very similar setup in my Jeep, ( Stock pump, stock turbo, stock engine, Taurus electric fan, radiator for a 4:88s, 33"s, 3K RPMS at 70MPH) and I have the exact same problem. At anything under 65-70, no problem, good power and no excess motor temps. At highway, things heat up quick, even when it is cool out (50s) and I have to floor it to maintain about 70-75.
Changed water pump, head gasket, multiple thermostats, rad cap... no real difference. Next thing I am thinking it might possibly be a collapsing rad hose that I cobbled together, but have not had a chance to mess with it.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem but wish you weren't in this boat too.
Good luck and keep us posted if you can crack the code.
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Cstolaircraft
07-04-2017, 10:33 PM #19Where are ur fans at? It was suggested to me that pusher fans could cause this. But they are the only ones that will fit
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Mine are set up puller style... I don't have the space to run a mechanical fan like I hoped to.
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Edit, the other thing of course is that you're driving along with your foot to the floor the whole time. Your timing may be too retarded, or your gearing is just off or something so the engine is struggling. Retarded timing will up the EGTs - have you got a EGT gauge?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Run the fans on when you're at speed maybe - unless they are already on because of the high temp, maybe take them off to prove whether or not they do block the flow at high speed (avoiding driving slowly for the period of the test of course)
Edit, the other thing of course is that you're driving along with your foot to the floor the whole time. Your timing may be too retarded, or your gearing is just off or something so the engine is struggling. Retarded timing will up the EGTs - have you got a EGT gauge?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
running, 3-4 miles per gallon less using the kkk26 . Turbo too small,to much back pressure,can cause heating problems under
your driving conditions. I changed back to the Garrett because the kkk26 faded bad above 65mph. Hopes this helps.
Possible high exhaust gas temps.caused by high back pressure. Have run both the Garrett and kkk26 turbos. !985 300sd,gearing 2:88,at 60-65 mph normal
running, 3-4 miles per gallon less using the kkk26 . Turbo too small,to much back pressure,can cause heating problems under
your driving conditions. I changed back to the Garrett because the kkk26 faded bad above 65mph. Hopes this helps.
You people make this complicated matter.. its just blown head gasket or head itself. Had these isues on prechamber bmv engines where it is common. Gasses enter coolant circuit it stops to flow and there you are boiling. Also symptoms are not so easy to spot, none of them had dirty coolant and some which pressurized only slightly passed CO-content fluid OK. Simply put, start it cold rev it through gears and quickly go inspect hoses-if they are hard you have answer. No fan will fix this.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Radiator cap blows when you rev it to redline?
You people make this complicated matter.. its just blown head gasket or head itself. Had these isues on prechamber bmv engines where it is common. Gasses enter coolant circuit it stops to flow and there you are boiling. Also symptoms are not so easy to spot, none of them had dirty coolant and some which pressurized only slightly passed CO-content fluid OK. Simply put, start it cold rev it through gears and quickly go inspect hoses-if they are hard you have answer. No fan will fix this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Cstolaircraft
07-06-2017, 08:58 AM #24No it over heats on the hwy. I can run it hard around town on back roads never have a problem hit 70mph on the hwy it gets hot. If I back off it will cool back down slowly. Try to hold 70- 75 over heats even faster if I am pulling a hill
(07-06-2017, 08:58 AM)Cstolaircraft No it over heats on the hwy. I can run it hard around town on back roads never have a problem hit 70mph on the hwy it gets hot. If I back off it will cool back down slowly. Try to hold 70- 75 over heats even faster if I am pulling a hill
What RPM range are you running when it overheats?
Austincarnut
07-06-2017, 07:50 PM #25(07-06-2017, 08:58 AM)Cstolaircraft No it over heats on the hwy. I can run it hard around town on back roads never have a problem hit 70mph on the hwy it gets hot. If I back off it will cool back down slowly. Try to hold 70- 75 over heats even faster if I am pulling a hill
What RPM range are you running when it overheats?
Cstolaircraft
07-13-2017, 04:54 PM #27The rad hose can't collapse. My oil cooler lines do get warm. My rpm should be about 3000 at 75.
I should get some time on the jeep next week and be able to see if my rad hose is collapsing, then go from there. Let me know if there is anything you want me to get notes on. Just got a new mechanical temp gauge so I'll be able to see what temps I'm actually producing.
Fingers crossed for progress at the very least.
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I have the Garrett, putting out 15ish lbs if I remember correctly off hand.
I should get some time on the jeep next week and be able to see if my rad hose is collapsing, then go from there. Let me know if there is anything you want me to get notes on. Just got a new mechanical temp gauge so I'll be able to see what temps I'm actually producing.
Fingers crossed for progress at the very least.
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Poor high speed performance
Decreased fuel mileage
Overheating at higher sustained speeds. Only if very restricted will over heat at lower speeds.
To remember turbo diesel exhaust muffling is different than a gas engine.
Best of luck.
Not that I know what"s the cause,but the classic symptoms of a restricted exhaust are:
Poor high speed performance
Decreased fuel mileage
Overheating at higher sustained speeds. Only if very restricted will over heat at lower speeds.
To remember turbo diesel exhaust muffling is different than a gas engine.
Best of luck.
(07-15-2017, 01:52 AM)Hercules Not that I know what"s the cause,but the classic symptoms of a restricted exhaust are:
Poor high speed performance
Decreased fuel mileage
Overheating at higher sustained speeds. Only if very restricted will over heat at lower speeds.
To remember turbo diesel exhaust muffling is different than a gas engine.
Best of
I have 2.25 inch down pipe going to 2.5 inch straight pipe. So that should flow plenty.... but..... thinking about it sticking my finger in the turbo checking for play it seemed a bit stiff still smooth with no play but when I spun it, the compressor wheel would spin maybe a half turn before stopping once I let go.... at the time I didn't think anything of it. For being straighted piped the turbo is really quite..... first turbo engine so I don't know how free it should be?
Cstolaircraft
07-15-2017, 11:26 PM #31(07-15-2017, 01:52 AM)Hercules Not that I know what"s the cause,but the classic symptoms of a restricted exhaust are:
Poor high speed performance
Decreased fuel mileage
Overheating at higher sustained speeds. Only if very restricted will over heat at lower speeds.
To remember turbo diesel exhaust muffling is different than a gas engine.
Best of
I have 2.25 inch down pipe going to 2.5 inch straight pipe. So that should flow plenty.... but..... thinking about it sticking my finger in the turbo checking for play it seemed a bit stiff still smooth with no play but when I spun it, the compressor wheel would spin maybe a half turn before stopping once I let go.... at the time I didn't think anything of it. For being straighted piped the turbo is really quite..... first turbo engine so I don't know how free it should be?
fordheaded
07-16-2017, 06:27 PM #33If you don't have a pre turbo EGT gauge and boost gauge, you cannot aquire the critical info you need to diagnose your overheeting problem.
Cstolaircraft
07-26-2017, 12:05 AM #34Up date... replaced turbo with rebuilt t3 replaced stock mb surf tank. Maybe a little slower to heat up? But then I also added an extra oil cooler. Anyone have thoughts on having my oil coolers right in front of the rad? I wonder if they might be making there air too hot when boosting?
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