Correct info for mw pump full load adjustment?
Correct info for mw pump full load adjustment?
Does anyone have a properly labeled photograph of an rw governor on an mw pump? And does anyone have a brief explanation of what each piece does? I want more total fueling and not a runaway. If anyone could help out. I'd be very young appreciative.
So I'm a long time member and lurker here and after reading through 50 threads of lance vs om616 drama, I don't know what to trust.
Does anyone have a properly labeled photograph of an rw governor on an mw pump? And does anyone have a brief explanation of what each piece does? I want more total fueling and not a runaway. If anyone could help out. I'd be very young appreciative.
![[Image: 91012d1361321579-transplanters-om617-faq...abeled.png]](https://www.yotatech.com/forums/attachments/f162/91012d1361321579-transplanters-om617-faq-mwpumplabeled.png)
there is a lot of debate on the torque capsule and whether to remover the rack limiter. personally i screwed the rack limiter in as far as it would go without removing it in case i wanted to adjust later. i also turned the max rpm as high as it would go with the stock adjuster spring. you can adjust the torque capsule for some more fuel and that is the adjustment that mucks with your idle return. i would just leave it alone and max the rack travel and high rpm governor. that plus 1-2 turns on the max throttle travel stop to help push the rack to the maximum after changing its travel limit.
all that being said you cant get that much more out of the stock 5.5mm elements. with everything adjusted perfectly and a better turbo you may see 150hp. after i swapped in my 8mm M pump it changed how the car behaved much more than adjusting the old MW pump even off boost. i personally would save up for a diselmeken pump but thats up to you. more modern turbos can help free up some power without adjusting the fueling as well. and then there is always supplemental fueling like methanol injection.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
this image is accurate as to the various adjustments.
there is a lot of debate on the torque capsule and whether to remover the rack limiter. personally i screwed the rack limiter in as far as it would go without removing it in case i wanted to adjust later. i also turned the max rpm as high as it would go with the stock adjuster spring. you can adjust the torque capsule for some more fuel and that is the adjustment that mucks with your idle return. i would just leave it alone and max the rack travel and high rpm governor. that plus 1-2 turns on the max throttle travel stop to help push the rack to the maximum after changing its travel limit.
all that being said you cant get that much more out of the stock 5.5mm elements. with everything adjusted perfectly and a better turbo you may see 150hp. after i swapped in my 8mm M pump it changed how the car behaved much more than adjusting the old MW pump even off boost. i personally would save up for a diselmeken pump but thats up to you. more modern turbos can help free up some power without adjusting the fueling as well. and then there is always supplemental fueling like methanol injection.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
Side bar, how do you like your he221w? My garrets showing some play, so I'm debating what I should replace it with.
Thanks for the post. It's very helpful. I know I can't get much more out of the stock pump but I figured I might as well try it since I've done most everything else and it'll be a while before I can get some bigger plungers in there. My cars no rocket ship, but it's already way healthier than stock with the manual swap and weight reduction I've done.
Side bar, how do you like your he221w? My garrets showing some play, so I'm debating what I should replace it with.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
its great my only issue is it cant move enough air for my power goals so im limited to 200-250 right now. it spools below the torque converter stall speed so thats not an issue for me. i suspect it should be over 10psi by 1500-1800 at WOT but again im still running the automatic so not sure what the behavior in your set up would be exactly.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
Does maxing out the rpms on the governor make a big difference in the gains people see? My rpm ceiling already sounds about right to my ears and works fine with my gear spacing. Don't know if I should spin this tired old motor any faster than I already am
Gotcha gotcha. I'm sure 200 to the ground and boost all the time is a bunch of fun.
Does maxing out the rpms on the governor make a big difference in the gains people see? My rpm ceiling already sounds about right to my ears and works fine with my gear spacing. Don't know if I should spin this tired old motor any faster than I already am
my flex discs have began to tear and my transmission in not long for this world so yes it is fun but problematic at the same time.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
increasing the rpm limit is more about limiting when it starts to pull fuel shifting your power band up the rpm band a bit. it will increase the maximum rpm of course but should help it pick up a bit of power up top as well.
my flex discs have began to tear and my transmission in not long for this world so yes it is fun but problematic at the same time.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
(02-07-2018, 01:43 AM)R-3350 increasing the rpm limit is more about limiting when it starts to pull fuel shifting your power band up the rpm band a bit. it will increase the maximum rpm of course but should help it pick up a bit of power up top as well.
Yep, but the stock screw only has maybe three turns on it remaining on average. The high speed adjustment can be accessed by only removing the shut off actuator, but unfortunately you cant remove the adjustment screw and replace it with a longer one without removing the cover plate which is a PIA..
It is possible to totally change the driving characteristics of the car by re-tuning the governor, but it takes special tools and knowledge to do it effectively.
(02-07-2018, 01:43 AM)R-3350 increasing the rpm limit is more about limiting when it starts to pull fuel shifting your power band up the rpm band a bit. it will increase the maximum rpm of course but should help it pick up a bit of power up top as well.
Yep, but the stock screw only has maybe three turns on it remaining on average. The high speed adjustment can be accessed by only removing the shut off actuator, but unfortunately you cant remove the adjustment screw and replace it with a longer one without removing the cover plate which is a PIA..
It is possible to totally change the driving characteristics of the car by re-tuning the governor, but it takes special tools and knowledge to do it effectively.
Not trying to make a rocketship(yet) but 5 horses here and there start to add up when you've only started with 120.
Any pearls of wisdom for adjusting the torque capsule, om616?
Three turns of extra rpms should be plenty for me for the short term. I've got nearly immediate boost on every gear change as it is and my turbo has significant shaft play and likely isn't spooling/spinning as well as it should be. Got a 55 trim otw and shooting for a very short, 3" diameter hood stack. Should help considering I've got 2.25" diam and a crush bent 90* on the current exhaust.
Not trying to make a rocketship(yet) but 5 horses here and there start to add up when you've only started with 120.
Any pearls of wisdom for adjusting the torque capsule, om616?
(02-11-2018, 10:52 AM)Freakshow Any pearls of wisdom for adjusting the torque capsule, om616?
Yeah... Don't lol...
Although that adjustment will get you the most bang for the buck, it requires a special tool to do it properly and not bugger up the lock nut and loose track of the adjustment. But first the cover plate has to come off which is a PIA and a mess. May need a new gasket too..
Then the the return to idle needs to be set and possibly the Idle Governor adjusted and in an extreme, the Idle Bump Stop may need a touch as well.....
Although there have been a few members who have got a pretty good handle on these adjustments, I honestly do not recommend others "try" to do it. It is just too easy to loose track of an adjustment and then it gets really interesting...
I don't mean to be a party pooper... Just being honest and I don't want to encourage something that I know can go very badly.
Just my 2 cents worth..
(02-11-2018, 10:52 AM)Freakshow Any pearls of wisdom for adjusting the torque capsule, om616?
Yeah... Don't lol...
Although that adjustment will get you the most bang for the buck, it requires a special tool to do it properly and not bugger up the lock nut and loose track of the adjustment. But first the cover plate has to come off which is a PIA and a mess. May need a new gasket too..
Then the the return to idle needs to be set and possibly the Idle Governor adjusted and in an extreme, the Idle Bump Stop may need a touch as well.....
Although there have been a few members who have got a pretty good handle on these adjustments, I honestly do not recommend others "try" to do it. It is just too easy to loose track of an adjustment and then it gets really interesting...
I don't mean to be a party pooper... Just being honest and I don't want to encourage something that I know can go very badly.
Just my 2 cents worth..
Your experience and advice are duly noted. I'll likelyjust leave it alone tbh, but hypothetically, lets say adjusting the max rpm and rack limiter went well, and one was feeling frisky and creative, could this special tool be fabricated reasonably easily or is it most likely better to just buy the correct tool for the job?
(02-11-2018, 07:35 PM)Freakshow Your experience and advice are duly noted. I'll likelyjust leave it alone tbh, but hypothetically, lets say adjusting the max rpm and rack limiter went well, and one was feeling frisky and creative, could this special tool be fabricated reasonably easily or is it most likely better to just buy the correct tool for the job?
The Bosch tool is too big to be used with the pump installed and I have never seen a price lol... I made special tools so that the adjustments could be done with the pump on the engine and the oil filter in place. I can't post pictures here any more or I would post a pic of them.
You will need an EGT gauge if you don't already have one if you are going to play with fueling.
For a DD don't touch the full load until after the Torque Control has been adjusted. In reality, the fueling level is usually pretty reasonable for a DD, but the governor starts reducing fuel right off idle, so it seems like there is not enough fuel. Adjusting both right out of the gate is very aggressive for a DD and EGTs can get hot quick.
In reality, what the Torque Control Cylinder adjustment does is it changes the distance between the flyweights and the Main fuel cut off lever (that is what I call it anyway). what that does is it changes how far the flyweights are out when it hits the Torque Control Cylinder. This has two effects, the first, is that is limits how much the flyweights can travel from Idle to contact with the TC and that movement is the TC action. The second thing it does is is changes the mechanical advantage of the flyweights by not letting them fly out as far before it hits the mail fuel cut off level, which pulls on the high speed spring, and that totally changes the fueling curve.
If you turn the TC in to far, the corresponding throttle adjustment required to set the return to idle will limit the idle governor's range so when the engine is cold, it will not be able to deliver enough fuel and you will have to apply some throttle to make it idle until it warms up..
I fear that instead of convincing you not to play with it, I am only emboldening you lol..
(02-11-2018, 07:35 PM)Freakshow Your experience and advice are duly noted. I'll likelyjust leave it alone tbh, but hypothetically, lets say adjusting the max rpm and rack limiter went well, and one was feeling frisky and creative, could this special tool be fabricated reasonably easily or is it most likely better to just buy the correct tool for the job?
The Bosch tool is too big to be used with the pump installed and I have never seen a price lol... I made special tools so that the adjustments could be done with the pump on the engine and the oil filter in place. I can't post pictures here any more or I would post a pic of them.
You will need an EGT gauge if you don't already have one if you are going to play with fueling.
For a DD don't touch the full load until after the Torque Control has been adjusted. In reality, the fueling level is usually pretty reasonable for a DD, but the governor starts reducing fuel right off idle, so it seems like there is not enough fuel. Adjusting both right out of the gate is very aggressive for a DD and EGTs can get hot quick.
In reality, what the Torque Control Cylinder adjustment does is it changes the distance between the flyweights and the Main fuel cut off lever (that is what I call it anyway). what that does is it changes how far the flyweights are out when it hits the Torque Control Cylinder. This has two effects, the first, is that is limits how much the flyweights can travel from Idle to contact with the TC and that movement is the TC action. The second thing it does is is changes the mechanical advantage of the flyweights by not letting them fly out as far before it hits the mail fuel cut off level, which pulls on the high speed spring, and that totally changes the fueling curve.
If you turn the TC in to far, the corresponding throttle adjustment required to set the return to idle will limit the idle governor's range so when the engine is cold, it will not be able to deliver enough fuel and you will have to apply some throttle to make it idle until it warms up..
I fear that instead of convincing you not to play with it, I am only emboldening you lol..
(02-11-2018, 07:35 PM)Freakshow Your experience and advice are duly noted. I'll likelyjust leave it alone tbh, but hypothetically, lets say adjusting the max rpm and rack limiter went well, and one was feeling frisky and creative, could this special tool be fabricated reasonably easily or is it most likely better to just buy the correct tool for the job?
Is your car an automatic or manual? If it is an automatic, something else to consider is after a TC adjustment, the physical throttle position will change and the throttle sensitivity will be increased so you would not have to move the petal as much. This sill throw the transmission modular vacuum control all out of wack and the trans will flair and have fits.
I know of one person that gave up trying to get the trans to shift properly after a governor adjustment and put a manual trans in the car lol.
(02-11-2018, 07:35 PM)Freakshow Your experience and advice are duly noted. I'll likelyjust leave it alone tbh, but hypothetically, lets say adjusting the max rpm and rack limiter went well, and one was feeling frisky and creative, could this special tool be fabricated reasonably easily or is it most likely better to just buy the correct tool for the job?
Is your car an automatic or manual? If it is an automatic, something else to consider is after a TC adjustment, the physical throttle position will change and the throttle sensitivity will be increased so you would not have to move the petal as much. This sill throw the transmission modular vacuum control all out of wack and the trans will flair and have fits.
I know of one person that gave up trying to get the trans to shift properly after a governor adjustment and put a manual trans in the car lol.
Pre turbine egt and boost gauges were installed as soon as I got the car. An emp gauge will be going in shortly. A/w intercooler will be going in soon too, just need the core now. Even without intercooling, egts typically only hit 550c on flat ground, maybe 600c if I'm sustained wot up a grade. I think I saw it hit 625c once, on a 30-90mph 4th gear wot, into a strong headwind.
That's running 14lbs on the stock 45trim. I've got a 55 trim I'll be dropping in soon. I think with the better compressor flow and intercooling, I should be able to keep egts in check even if I start monkeying around with the fueling.
Also working on a viscous fan delete and twin Efan upgrade from a w201, should help me warm up faster if my cold idle quality somehow became less than perfect ; )
I already swapped a manual in about a year ago, so thankfully no considerations to be made there. My cruise has never worked either, so I'll be ditching all those linkages here soon as well.
Pre turbine egt and boost gauges were installed as soon as I got the car. An emp gauge will be going in shortly. A/w intercooler will be going in soon too, just need the core now. Even without intercooling, egts typically only hit 550c on flat ground, maybe 600c if I'm sustained wot up a grade. I think I saw it hit 625c once, on a 30-90mph 4th gear wot, into a strong headwind.
That's running 14lbs on the stock 45trim. I've got a 55 trim I'll be dropping in soon. I think with the better compressor flow and intercooling, I should be able to keep egts in check even if I start monkeying around with the fueling.
Also working on a viscous fan delete and twin Efan upgrade from a w201, should help me warm up faster if my cold idle quality somehow became less than perfect ; )
(02-24-2018, 12:51 PM)Freakshow So in your experience, the order of adjustments should be tcc/max rpm and then full load after checking egts and General running condition?
IMO yes. That way you can set the full load to a point where you are not over fueling and can sustain Full Throttle longer.
(02-24-2018, 02:53 PM)Freakshow i would love to be in an overfueling situation. Just add more air to achieve more power and lower egts, or am I missing something?
Yep... You are not considering the injection pulse width. Stock timing and restrictive prechambers only allow enough time and air to burn stock fueling amounts. Increasing the delivered quantity also extends the injection time, and at some point, it is too late to be productive, then it just generates smoke and unproductive heat.. Big elements not only put out more fuel, but they do it in less time.
That is why I suggest getting the fueling curve where you want it, and then adjust the amount of fuel for your set up.
(02-24-2018, 02:53 PM)Freakshow i would love to be in an overfueling situation. Just add more air to achieve more power and lower egts, or am I missing something?
Yep... You are not considering the injection pulse width. Stock timing and restrictive prechambers only allow enough time and air to burn stock fueling amounts. Increasing the delivered quantity also extends the injection time, and at some point, it is too late to be productive, then it just generates smoke and unproductive heat.. Big elements not only put out more fuel, but they do it in less time.
That is why I suggest getting the fueling curve where you want it, and then adjust the amount of fuel for your set up.
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