OM605 7,5 - bad run until warmed
OM605 7,5 - bad run until warmed
When i start, it shakes a lot and makes tons of white smoke. When its warmed over 80°C everything works fine.
Pump is set to 15deg ATDC now.
Video here: https://youtu.be/LU0ktdj57A8
I've already checked:
Injectors (set to 150bar) - doublechecked
Engine compression (each cylinder has 23bar)
Heater + heater relay
Correct setting of the cams against the crankshaft
Fuel pressure before injectiction pump is constant 1bar and fuel is clear without air bubbles - doublechecked.
Engine doesnt take water or oil
Engine head was made 20000km ago
Vacuum choke works properly
Sure i checked much more, but i cant remember now...
So the pump injection time setting:
Dieselmeken recommends 8-10 ATDC.
I tried everything from 6deg to 17deg ATDC so many times, that i can change it under 2 mins now.
I also tried, when pump starts to deliver fuel, it's not exactly right, but when pump is set to 8 ATDC it start to deliver fuel for first cylinder at about 15 Before TDC.
So its allright probably.
When its:
6-8 ATDC - bad starts, smokes a lot even when its warmed, rly noisy
8-10 ATDC - starts little better, smokes a lot, noisy
12-17 ATDC - starts ok, engine shakes after start, tons of white smoke until warmed, but when its warmed works fine.
In the video above pump is set to 15 ATDC.
Could you advise me please?
Thank you, Tomas.
Hi, i have a little trouble (hope with injection timing only) on my OM605 with 7,5mm Dieselmeken pump.
When i start, it shakes a lot and makes tons of white smoke. When its warmed over 80°C everything works fine.
Pump is set to 15deg ATDC now.
Video here: https://youtu.be/LU0ktdj57A8
I've already checked:
Injectors (set to 150bar) - doublechecked
Engine compression (each cylinder has 23bar)
Heater + heater relay
Correct setting of the cams against the crankshaft
Fuel pressure before injectiction pump is constant 1bar and fuel is clear without air bubbles - doublechecked.
Engine doesnt take water or oil
Engine head was made 20000km ago
Vacuum choke works properly
Sure i checked much more, but i cant remember now...
So the pump injection time setting:
Dieselmeken recommends 8-10 ATDC.
I tried everything from 6deg to 17deg ATDC so many times, that i can change it under 2 mins now.
I also tried, when pump starts to deliver fuel, it's not exactly right, but when pump is set to 8 ATDC it start to deliver fuel for first cylinder at about 15 Before TDC.
So its allright probably.
When its:
6-8 ATDC - bad starts, smokes a lot even when its warmed, rly noisy
8-10 ATDC - starts little better, smokes a lot, noisy
12-17 ATDC - starts ok, engine shakes after start, tons of white smoke until warmed, but when its warmed works fine.
In the video above pump is set to 15 ATDC.
Could you advise me please?
Thank you, Tomas.
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
This or something very similar was being discussed on the PP forum. A guy suggested it was the fuel heater thermostat thingy leaking air into the system until it had warmed up
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(04-01-2018, 09:17 PM)NZScott This or something very similar was being discussed on the PP forum. A guy suggested it was the fuel heater thermostat thingy leaking air into the system until it had warmed up
Hi, thank you for response, but here is any other trouble, my fuel heater is disabled. Fuel line go straigt from TANK to DELIVERY PUMP to FILTER and to INJECTION PUMP.
I tryed to replace black fuel lines (tube) right before injection pump, to transparent tube and theres no air at all + pressure is constant 1 bar.
Any another idea? And please what is "PP forum", could you link it for me ?
Thank you
(04-01-2018, 09:17 PM)NZScott This or something very similar was being discussed on the PP forum. A guy suggested it was the fuel heater thermostat thingy leaking air into the system until it had warmed up
Hi, thank you for response, but here is any other trouble, my fuel heater is disabled. Fuel line go straigt from TANK to DELIVERY PUMP to FILTER and to INJECTION PUMP.
I tryed to replace black fuel lines (tube) right before injection pump, to transparent tube and theres no air at all + pressure is constant 1 bar.
Any another idea? And please what is "PP forum", could you link it for me ?
Thank you
PP=Peach Parts. More specifically the diesel section http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Well then. Bit of a mystery.
PP=Peach Parts. More specifically the diesel section http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Pump set to 20 ATDC, and its even wors than before, engine missfire more, smokes more and turn off by itself. So i have to set it back on 15 or little less.
Tryed compression on each cylinder again...and its again a 23 bars on all cylinders (each one tested for 7 seconds with starter). While engine stands for 4-5 hours, so was close to cold.
Any idea where i have to look now?
Todays edit:
Pump set to 20 ATDC, and its even wors than before, engine missfire more, smokes more and turn off by itself. So i have to set it back on 15 or little less.
Tryed compression on each cylinder again...and its again a 23 bars on all cylinders (each one tested for 7 seconds with starter). While engine stands for 4-5 hours, so was close to cold.
Any idea where i have to look now?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
If I were you I'd just for the hell of it start it without using the glow plugs (disconnect them electrically entirely) and see how it behaves
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(04-02-2018, 07:09 PM)TomasMBWhat is the temperature outside?(04-01-2018, 09:17 PM)NZScott This or something very similar was being discussed on the PP forum. A guy suggested it was the fuel heater thermostat thingy leaking air into the system until it had warmed up
Hi, thank you for response, but here is any other trouble, my fuel heater is disabled. Fuel line go straigt from TANK to DELIVERY PUMP to FILTER and to INJECTION PUMP.
I tryed to replace black fuel lines (tube) right before injection pump, to transparent tube and theres no air at all + pressure is constant 1 bar.
Any another idea? And please what is "PP forum", could you link it for me ?
Thank you
What oil are you running?
atypicalguy
04-04-2018, 10:31 AM #8(04-02-2018, 07:09 PM)TomasMBWhat is the temperature outside?(04-01-2018, 09:17 PM)NZScott This or something very similar was being discussed on the PP forum. A guy suggested it was the fuel heater thermostat thingy leaking air into the system until it had warmed up
Hi, thank you for response, but here is any other trouble, my fuel heater is disabled. Fuel line go straigt from TANK to DELIVERY PUMP to FILTER and to INJECTION PUMP.
I tryed to replace black fuel lines (tube) right before injection pump, to transparent tube and theres no air at all + pressure is constant 1 bar.
Any another idea? And please what is "PP forum", could you link it for me ?
Thank you
What oil are you running?
What is the outside temperature? OM605-6 needs afterglow up to 3 minutes if its cold weather. Try with glow plugs on and I belive you have problem solved. If it's ok with glow plugs on then try on 10-12 degrees because 15 is too much for meken pump. If you have 7,5mm and 150bar then you have to live with noise, it will never be as smooth as stock engine.
I had a similar problem. The symptoms are just like the omes in the video, except they ocurred from 1200-3000 rpm roughly. My pump is set to 10°ATDC as Dieselmeken specified. My issue was a faulty pump at the tank. Once that was changed and the supply to the ip was adequate, most of the problem went away. The last touch was having the injectors cleaned. Injector no.4 was pretty much shut. Since your issue is at idle when cold, I would start looking into the glowplugs. If that is ok, inspect the injectors, then move on to fuel lines and supply, last is the injection pump. Dieselmeken offers a lifetime warranty on his pumps, so a failure in a pump of such caliber is probably the least likely of the forementioned options. Best of luck.
How old are the injectors and which brand and model nozzle is it? Sometimes it is recommended to use a different nozzle for such an engine built.
To how much fuel is the pump set?
To me it seems there could be a problem with the injectors leaking fuel into prechamber because of not enough fuel released out of the high pressure lines by the delivery valve.
If the 7,5mm elements use the stock delivery valves that is at, or over the limit.
When the engine gets warm, the fuel becomes warmer = thinner and more fuel is released out of the delivery valves. Then the problem is gone.
At least that is what I would guess.
If you want to test my theory, set the nozzles to 120bar and test again how the engine runs. That should change the frequency of injection line pressure waves enough to make a difference.
You shouldn´t run the engine on the long term with less than 135bar injector opening pressure. If you don´t want to do the stuff twice, you can try 135bar pop pressure. That might already be enough to solve the problem if I am right.
Gruß
Volker
Good video showing everything!
How old are the injectors and which brand and model nozzle is it? Sometimes it is recommended to use a different nozzle for such an engine built.
To how much fuel is the pump set?
To me it seems there could be a problem with the injectors leaking fuel into prechamber because of not enough fuel released out of the high pressure lines by the delivery valve.
If the 7,5mm elements use the stock delivery valves that is at, or over the limit.
When the engine gets warm, the fuel becomes warmer = thinner and more fuel is released out of the delivery valves. Then the problem is gone.
At least that is what I would guess.
If you want to test my theory, set the nozzles to 120bar and test again how the engine runs. That should change the frequency of injection line pressure waves enough to make a difference.
You shouldn´t run the engine on the long term with less than 135bar injector opening pressure. If you don´t want to do the stuff twice, you can try 135bar pop pressure. That might already be enough to solve the problem if I am right.
Gruß
Volker
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