W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52
W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52
10-24-2017, 03:10 PM
#151
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ouEP8jq...e=youtu.be
And for comparison the same PRO52 but single turbo setup. Biturbo makes so big difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbShuHhQq6k
Here's one video of how it spools, I use 2.47 diff at the moment so with 3.xx ratio it would spool even faster. As you can see it makes only one stripe, so next I need to improve differential. Last year with 2.47 diff and huge hx52 it spooled at so high speed that it was almost driveable with opened diff but not anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ouEP8jq...e=youtu.be
And for comparison the same PRO52 but single turbo setup. Biturbo makes so big difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbShuHhQq6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbShuHhQq6k
that run was expensive!
04-24-2018, 01:39 PM
#153
This post was last modified: 04-24-2018, 01:41 PM by erx.
First time on drag strip this year. Same biturbo setup and no upgrades on engine side, this time welded 2.65 diff instead of opened 3.27 that I used last year. It was slippery like always but this time there was strong wind right in front so final speed wasn't that good like it should have been, still little under 200kph. Best result was 60ft 2.18, 660ft 8.14/157.36kph and ET 12.13/198.6kph. Slowly getting better with my sleeper. Engine and gearbox are still both unopened.
05-16-2018, 01:17 AM
#154
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
This post was last modified: 05-16-2018, 02:09 AM by atypicalguy.
atypicalguy
05-16-2018, 01:17 AM #154Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
05-16-2018, 01:22 AM
#155
(06-13-2016, 07:50 AM)Petar Note that chart is likely made for a gas engine and a diesel will certainly move more air per hp. How much i don't know but i would estimate 20-30% more
Yes but are not the gas temperatures far higher for the petrol motor? So the volume of gas might be greater for the petrol motor, even though the mass flow of the diesel is higher. Back pressure from exhaust would correlate with volume, not mass, flow rate.
atypicalguy
05-16-2018, 01:22 AM #155(06-13-2016, 07:50 AM)Petar Note that chart is likely made for a gas engine and a diesel will certainly move more air per hp. How much i don't know but i would estimate 20-30% more
Yes but are not the gas temperatures far higher for the petrol motor? So the volume of gas might be greater for the petrol motor, even though the mass flow of the diesel is higher. Back pressure from exhaust would correlate with volume, not mass, flow rate.
05-16-2018, 04:53 PM
#156
(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
This post was last modified: 05-16-2018, 04:54 PM by erx.
(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
05-17-2018, 12:42 AM
#157
(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Thank you for the detailed responses.
That is a nice back pressure ratio!
Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?
And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure.
I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.
atypicalguy
05-17-2018, 12:42 AM #157(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Thank you for the detailed responses.
That is a nice back pressure ratio!
Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?
And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure.
I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.
05-19-2018, 07:07 PM
#158
(05-17-2018, 12:42 AM)atypicalguy(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Thank you for the detailed responses.
That is a nice back pressure ratio!
Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?
And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure.
I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.
I use two solenoids for bypass wg-s to control both upper and lower chambers. Bypass is 100% opened when full load. VGT is controlled by Ole fejer controller.
(05-17-2018, 12:42 AM)atypicalguy(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx(05-16-2018, 01:17 AM)atypicalguy Seems like the 2.65 is a good ratio!
Some questions if you do not mind:
1. Are you bypassing the small turbo entirely at high rpm, or is it still working?
2. how big is the small turbo compressor?
3. how big are the bypass wastegates?
4. What rpm does it spool?
5. Have you measured any backpressure?
You are spooling almost immediately in the last drag video. Looks great! Fantastic results.
1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Thank you for the detailed responses.
That is a nice back pressure ratio!
Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?
And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure.
I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.
I use two solenoids for bypass wg-s to control both upper and lower chambers. Bypass is 100% opened when full load. VGT is controlled by Ole fejer controller.
06-17-2018, 06:51 PM
#159
(05-19-2018, 07:07 PM)erx(05-17-2018, 12:42 AM)atypicalguy(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx 1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Thank you for the detailed responses.
That is a nice back pressure ratio!
Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?
And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure.
I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.
I use two solenoids for bypass wg-s to control both upper and lower chambers. Bypass is 100% opened when full load. VGT is controlled by Ole fejer controller.
Great setup.
I need to put solenoids on my wastegates. What are you using to control the solenoids?The DSL 1?
Thanks.
atypicalguy
06-17-2018, 06:51 PM #159(05-19-2018, 07:07 PM)erx(05-17-2018, 12:42 AM)atypicalguy(05-16-2018, 04:53 PM)erx 1. At high rpm it is bypassed because it's so small compared to pro52.
2.
GT2359V - MB OM613, OM648,
Compressor
Inducer: 44.4mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
12 blades
55 trim
.51 A/R
Turbine
Inducer: 51.2mm
Exducer: 47mm
9 blades
3. 60mm
4. It spools instantly as you can see from video. If I hold brake and throttle it will spoolup and spin wheels almost instantly, even with 2.65 diff.
5. All the time, small turbo vgt is actuated by comparing boost and egp. At 3.5bar boost egp is 4.2bar.
Thank you for the detailed responses.
That is a nice back pressure ratio!
Do you control the 60mm wastegates with a solenoid valve, or with direct pressure? And do you use large turbo pressure to hold the gates closed a bit?
And are you using the Ole Fejer controller to control the vgt actuator? I suppose it can do the math comparing the boost and backpressure.
I never considered using EDC or vgt, but your setup shows what is possible in compound 606 builds now with aftermarket controllers. Very nice work.
I use two solenoids for bypass wg-s to control both upper and lower chambers. Bypass is 100% opened when full load. VGT is controlled by Ole fejer controller.
Great setup.
I need to put solenoids on my wastegates. What are you using to control the solenoids?The DSL 1?
Thanks.
07-28-2018, 09:30 AM
#160
Does your EDC pump requare timing gear when you use biger elements than stock?
And did you swap only bellhousing to 320 cdi box, or somthing else must be done inside of it to get it run with om606/605?
Thanks in advance!
dieseltorque
07-28-2018, 09:30 AM #160Great work!
Does your EDC pump requare timing gear when you use biger elements than stock?
And did you swap only bellhousing to 320 cdi box, or somthing else must be done inside of it to get it run with om606/605?
Thanks in advance!
10-17-2018, 04:19 PM
#161
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
This post was last modified: 10-17-2018, 04:24 PM by g wizz.
not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
10-18-2018, 04:00 PM
#162
(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.
I will add pics someday.
This post was last modified: 10-18-2018, 04:26 PM by erx.
(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.
I will add pics someday.
10-18-2018, 11:33 PM
#163
(10-18-2018, 04:00 PM)erxya the bigger the area you can get over the intake runners is most ideal. same for charge piping, the larger the better cause you end up flowing the same volume of air at lower boost which means lower temps higher density ect.(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.
I will add pics someday.
85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
(10-18-2018, 04:00 PM)erxya the bigger the area you can get over the intake runners is most ideal. same for charge piping, the larger the better cause you end up flowing the same volume of air at lower boost which means lower temps higher density ect.(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.
I will add pics someday.
85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
10-29-2018, 08:05 AM
#164
(10-18-2018, 04:00 PM)erx(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.
I will add pics someday.
What did you change about the intake to make the difference? Flow path or dimensions?
atypicalguy
10-29-2018, 08:05 AM #164(10-18-2018, 04:00 PM)erx(10-17-2018, 04:19 PM)g wizz not many people know how to properly build a compound set up especially with wastegates. good job, especially how you set up the wastegates. what ratio of boost to drive pressure do you have if you dont mind answering?
just seen your response. almost 1:1, under 60psi for drive.. wow way good.
Yeah it was quite a surprise to me also that this exhaust manifold flows so good with huge PRO52 turbo and it makes up to 4.2bar boost. I made new intake and it's even better now, it was dying after 5000rpm and first I thought it was because of bad flowing hot side but actually new intake made huge difference. Now it goes to 6000rpm with full power and it would go even higher but for safety I will not go much over 6000.
I will add pics someday.
What did you change about the intake to make the difference? Flow path or dimensions?
![[Image: toDvkWt.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/toDvkWt.jpg)
![[Image: BjIYWV3.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/BjIYWV3.jpg)
![[Image: glxPN4A.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/glxPN4A.jpg)
![[Image: VzxPkPL.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/VzxPkPL.jpg)
![[Image: BFKwkFA.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/BFKwkFA.jpg)
![[Image: VQn14i8.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/VQn14i8.jpg)
![[Image: VPjN6zH.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/VPjN6zH.jpg)
![[Image: r9Ge6T5.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/r9Ge6T5.jpg)
![[Image: mZ8l5hc.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/mZ8l5hc.jpg)
![[Image: v88Xgm9.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/v88Xgm9.jpg)
![[Image: Uz8QJ19.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/Uz8QJ19.jpg)
![[Image: UnfXegb.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/UnfXegb.jpg)
![[Image: nfPtn9n.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/nfPtn9n.jpg)
11-05-2018, 03:48 AM
#167
85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
cylinders are happy now. sounds like its hits harder/sooner.
85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
11-10-2018, 10:04 PM
#169
whipplem104
11-10-2018, 10:04 PM #169I was wondering if you have done a before and after dyno with the intake. No other changes.
11-12-2018, 11:08 AM
#170
(11-10-2018, 10:04 PM)whipplem104 I was wondering if you have done a before and after dyno with the intake. No other changes.
Actually I have, I wanted to see the difference myself also and that's why I made new manifold exact replacement to the old one. We swapped manifold on the dyno rollers so we made some pulls with new one and then put back old one and did not change anything else. Red is old and blue is new manifold. This time there was new dyno software and also we used roller brakes first time and diff ratio was different so it can't be compared to results from earlier years but difference that manifolds made over 5000rpm are more than 100nm and 50kw from wheels. Figures on graph are kw and nm from wheels.
After I istalled new manifold earlier I felt big difference over 5000rpm. With old manifold it died over 5000rpm but now it goes and goes but with unopened engine for safety I set limit to 6000. You can hear hard cut in burnout video I posted earlier, it never did it with old manifold. Also I had gearbox fail messages because it hits hard limit during shifts and it didn't have that problem with old manifold. Now I rised hard limit to 6500 and fuel is slowly reduced over 6000rpm.
New intake manifold made HUGE difference.
![[Image: rR3hAj7.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/rR3hAj7.jpg)
Now I also have Blow off to make turbos' life a little easier.
![[Image: sa6BVt6.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/sa6BVt6.jpg)
One more slippery sideways drag just for fun
And the best time this year was 60ft 2.07 ET 11.97s 198.6kph with crap Nankang tyres. Next year I'll try hoosiers, impossible to make good start with semislicks.
This post was last modified: 11-13-2018, 04:44 PM by erx.
(11-10-2018, 10:04 PM)whipplem104 I was wondering if you have done a before and after dyno with the intake. No other changes.
Actually I have, I wanted to see the difference myself also and that's why I made new manifold exact replacement to the old one. We swapped manifold on the dyno rollers so we made some pulls with new one and then put back old one and did not change anything else. Red is old and blue is new manifold. This time there was new dyno software and also we used roller brakes first time and diff ratio was different so it can't be compared to results from earlier years but difference that manifolds made over 5000rpm are more than 100nm and 50kw from wheels. Figures on graph are kw and nm from wheels.
After I istalled new manifold earlier I felt big difference over 5000rpm. With old manifold it died over 5000rpm but now it goes and goes but with unopened engine for safety I set limit to 6000. You can hear hard cut in burnout video I posted earlier, it never did it with old manifold. Also I had gearbox fail messages because it hits hard limit during shifts and it didn't have that problem with old manifold. Now I rised hard limit to 6500 and fuel is slowly reduced over 6000rpm.
New intake manifold made HUGE difference.
Now I also have Blow off to make turbos' life a little easier.
One more slippery sideways drag just for fun
And the best time this year was 60ft 2.07 ET 11.97s 198.6kph with crap Nankang tyres. Next year I'll try hoosiers, impossible to make good start with semislicks.
11-13-2018, 11:07 AM
#171
whipplem104
11-13-2018, 11:07 AM #171Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
11-13-2018, 04:04 PM
#172
(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
![[Image: nOUfO2D.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/nOUfO2D.jpg)
This post was last modified: 11-13-2018, 05:00 PM by erx.
(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
11-20-2018, 10:20 AM
#173
(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.
There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure.
Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.
It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.
atypicalguy
11-20-2018, 10:20 AM #173(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.
There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure.
Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.
It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.
02-28-2019, 12:19 PM
#174
(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.
There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure.
Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.
It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.
its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.
external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.
cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.
This post was last modified: 02-28-2019, 12:24 PM by g wizz.
85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx(11-13-2018, 11:07 AM)whipplem104 Is it your twin setup that is causing you to be down so much on HP. You use to make a lot more?
It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.
There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure.
Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.
It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.
its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.
external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.
cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.
85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
03-02-2019, 07:19 AM
#175
(02-28-2019, 12:19 PM)g wizz(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.
There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure.
Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.
It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.
its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.
external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.
cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.
Interesting. Well, I have a single 44 Tial bypass gate, with an internal gate bored out to just over an inch on the hx30 for good measure (don't expect it to do much, but every little bit helps). I don't plan to use much of the hx30 at higher rpm as the he451 will only provide enough air at higher PR, so it is more of a sequential setup with full bypass. The 44mm may not be enough to keep the hx30 from creeping. Fortunately the external gate has a lot of flow priority. Worst case scenario is to rework the manifold for double 60mm like erx setup.
atypicalguy
03-02-2019, 07:19 AM #175(02-28-2019, 12:19 PM)g wizz(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.
But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.
It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out interior.
Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.
There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure.
Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.
It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.
its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.
external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.
cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.
Interesting. Well, I have a single 44 Tial bypass gate, with an internal gate bored out to just over an inch on the hx30 for good measure (don't expect it to do much, but every little bit helps). I don't plan to use much of the hx30 at higher rpm as the he451 will only provide enough air at higher PR, so it is more of a sequential setup with full bypass. The 44mm may not be enough to keep the hx30 from creeping. Fortunately the external gate has a lot of flow priority. Worst case scenario is to rework the manifold for double 60mm like erx setup.
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