HX32 Slow to Spool on healthy 603?
HX32 Slow to Spool on healthy 603?
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=1604
Strong OM603 with 260K miles. Just did compression test and results were excellent. I have planned to do this pump and turbo upgrade for years. At one point I sold the car to a guy and then bought it back two years later. I got it back with upgraded 17 head, rebuilt injectors, and 5-speed. I drove it like this for 7k miles getting 30-35 mpg. At some point fuel economy lessened to 26-28 and power seemed less. I put boost gauge on and I was not making full boost until 4k rpms...I suspected a worn turbo but I went ahead and did one thing at a time. The HX32 was brand new in box dated 1998, 12cm2 Turbine housing.
Is the HX32 just TOO BIG for my goals??
Installed 6mm DPUK Pump: No change though I could get it to smoke plenty.
Installed HX32 with Euro manifold: More power but boost begins at 2500 and I only see 5 psi at 3500, then it hits a bit at 4500 and I see 20-25psi (no WG for testing) but by that time I have to shift. The power is totally unusable and I got the HX32 instead of the HX35 so I would have a usable daily driver! The only part that was on BOTH old and new setup is a the flex pipe at exhaust as I re-used it. It did have a small hairline crack I am not seeing soot around it and it does not bubble with soapy water.
Since this photo, I had the oring sleeve welded to compressor housing so it is a solid fit. No boost leaks.
jonbobshinigin
05-22-2018, 06:02 PM #1Project is here, but I am posting this separately for specific help:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=1604
Strong OM603 with 260K miles. Just did compression test and results were excellent. I have planned to do this pump and turbo upgrade for years. At one point I sold the car to a guy and then bought it back two years later. I got it back with upgraded 17 head, rebuilt injectors, and 5-speed. I drove it like this for 7k miles getting 30-35 mpg. At some point fuel economy lessened to 26-28 and power seemed less. I put boost gauge on and I was not making full boost until 4k rpms...I suspected a worn turbo but I went ahead and did one thing at a time. The HX32 was brand new in box dated 1998, 12cm2 Turbine housing.
Is the HX32 just TOO BIG for my goals??
Installed 6mm DPUK Pump: No change though I could get it to smoke plenty.
Installed HX32 with Euro manifold: More power but boost begins at 2500 and I only see 5 psi at 3500, then it hits a bit at 4500 and I see 20-25psi (no WG for testing) but by that time I have to shift. The power is totally unusable and I got the HX32 instead of the HX35 so I would have a usable daily driver! The only part that was on BOTH old and new setup is a the flex pipe at exhaust as I re-used it. It did have a small hairline crack I am not seeing soot around it and it does not bubble with soapy water.
Since this photo, I had the oring sleeve welded to compressor housing so it is a solid fit. No boost leaks.
I think it's a fueling thing or stuck open wastegate maybe...I know you had a video of rolling coal but at a guess you still need more fuel, a stock pump would make that much with no ALDA....but I could be completely wrong
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I've been reading your FB thing as well.
I think it's a fueling thing or stuck open wastegate maybe...I know you had a video of rolling coal but at a guess you still need more fuel, a stock pump would make that much with no ALDA....but I could be completely wrong
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Check for leaks or other flow associated problems.
Or unless u have a too big A/R turbine housing and if this is the case it will never light up well.
What turbine housing A/R u have?
FD,
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It got to light up sooner than 3k and build full boost at 3.5 k
Check for leaks or other flow associated problems.
Or unless u have a too big A/R turbine housing and if this is the case it will never light up well.
What turbine housing A/R u have?
FD,
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I have better power off boost than before and with a 10-12cm (.7-.83, not marked) housing on my s200 and I have full boost by like 3200 but don't really make any more than 7-8 psi until 2700.
Did you clock the turbo? Perhaps the turbine is rubbing on the housing if you made it too tight? Shouldn't be a problem if brand new but sometimes that can happen
Are you sure the pump timing is correct? I had to check mine a few times despite thinking it went in correctly the first time. Could also explain the lower mpg.
I have better power off boost than before and with a 10-12cm (.7-.83, not marked) housing on my s200 and I have full boost by like 3200 but don't really make any more than 7-8 psi until 2700.
Did you clock the turbo? Perhaps the turbine is rubbing on the housing if you made it too tight? Shouldn't be a problem if brand new but sometimes that can happen
(05-23-2018, 03:56 AM)barrote It got to light up sooner than 3k and build full boost at 3.5 k
Check for leaks or other flow associated problems.
Or unless u have a too big A/R turbine housing and if this is the case it will never light up well.
What turbine housing A/R u have?
I am trying to get the specs of the turbo from Holset. I know it has a 12cm2 Turbine Housing.
The turbo has been re-clocked but with no indications of leaking.
So...it seems like we are all in agreement that this turbo should not be too big for this application?
jonbobshinigin
05-23-2018, 12:28 PM #6(05-23-2018, 03:56 AM)barrote It got to light up sooner than 3k and build full boost at 3.5 k
Check for leaks or other flow associated problems.
Or unless u have a too big A/R turbine housing and if this is the case it will never light up well.
What turbine housing A/R u have?
I am trying to get the specs of the turbo from Holset. I know it has a 12cm2 Turbine Housing.
The turbo has been re-clocked but with no indications of leaking.
So...it seems like we are all in agreement that this turbo should not be too big for this application?
(05-22-2018, 11:46 PM)NZScott I've been reading your FB thing as well.
I think it's a fueling thing or stuck open wastegate maybe...I know you had a video of rolling coal but at a guess you still need more fuel, a stock pump would make that much with no ALDA....but I could be completely wrong
We wired the wastegate shut to be sure even with it disconnected. We also opened it up and confirmed it is in the closed position and nothing was awry.
jonbobshinigin
05-23-2018, 12:31 PM #7(05-22-2018, 11:46 PM)NZScott I've been reading your FB thing as well.
I think it's a fueling thing or stuck open wastegate maybe...I know you had a video of rolling coal but at a guess you still need more fuel, a stock pump would make that much with no ALDA....but I could be completely wrong
We wired the wastegate shut to be sure even with it disconnected. We also opened it up and confirmed it is in the closed position and nothing was awry.
Well injection quantities apart, when a turbo machine does not build boost only two things may be preventing it... boost leak or lack of drive press.
Since it looks like there is no leaks on compressor side only remains drive pressure!!! Wich can be due to fueling issues or turbine housing too big (low gas flow) anyway i vote for housing... since a nr 12 housing is not so small thing.
Anyway u have to figure it out... can u measure turbine inducer size?
FD,
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I use to build pumps as a hobby, and i never seen a 6 mm pump injecting more than 100cc, and retain all governor features.
Well injection quantities apart, when a turbo machine does not build boost only two things may be preventing it... boost leak or lack of drive press.
Since it looks like there is no leaks on compressor side only remains drive pressure!!! Wich can be due to fueling issues or turbine housing too big (low gas flow) anyway i vote for housing... since a nr 12 housing is not so small thing.
Anyway u have to figure it out... can u measure turbine inducer size?
FD,
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Are you sure the pump is set to 130cc, I.e. Does it have that external alda?
What I meant about clocking the turbine was there's a floating piece between the wheel and chra that can sit wrong and make the turbine wheel rub, thus not allowing it to spin as freely. I highly doubt this is your issue but something to consider in the future.
I don't think 12cm is too big. It would be slow but shouldn't be as slow as you say. You still have the smaller HX30 turbine wheel.
Are you sure the pump is set to 130cc, I.e. Does it have that external alda?
What I meant about clocking the turbine was there's a floating piece between the wheel and chra that can sit wrong and make the turbine wheel rub, thus not allowing it to spin as freely. I highly doubt this is your issue but something to consider in the future.
jonbobshinigin
05-24-2018, 12:35 AM #10The pump has external Alda which is adjustable. I can adjust off-boost fuel and make it smoke a ton before boost but it does not help the issue. I had to modify my throttle levers to allow full throttle as the DPUK pump has 30% more travel.
How about an He351cw? Slightly bigger than an Hx35 but has a 9cm housing. On my om605 it has worked very well. I get 10 psi by 2700 and 25 by 3500. From my experience, slow spool according to turbo size is generaly a lack of fuel before the ALDA KICKS in. Maybe you can adjust the low boost fueling to see if this improves the response? Another factor would be the crack pressure on the ALDA wastegate. Best of luck.
78 300D, 87 190D, 94 E320, 95 E300D
Bigpanda16
05-24-2018, 08:17 PM #12Drbiehl: what is your pump size for this spool time? I've got the same turbo I'm putting on an om606.910
78 300D, 87 190D, 94 E320, 95 E300D
i would be very interested in buying one ...
HX35W #12 housing in 605 does not have acceptable spool type ... even with a 160cc pump, i guess that thing 351 should be close or i maybe wrong... but is something that i would like to know too
FD,
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Just cause talking about turbos, anyone know of #10 or #9 housings for a HX35W?
i would be very interested in buying one ...
HX35W #12 housing in 605 does not have acceptable spool type ... even with a 160cc pump, i guess that thing 351 should be close or i maybe wrong... but is something that i would like to know too
FD,
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(05-24-2018, 08:17 PM)Bigpanda16 Drbiehl: what is your pump size for this spool time? I've got the same turbo I'm putting on an om606.910
Mine is a Dieselmeken 7.5mm pump. Set to 50/120 at the moment (weak tranny). 4 inch downpipe and 3 inch exhaust. The boost reference to the ALDA comes from the turbo.
There is a video on youtube by the name w463 G300 acceleration. I'll try to find the link an PM it you, it should give you an idea of the turbo's behaviour.
(05-24-2018, 08:17 PM)Bigpanda16 Drbiehl: what is your pump size for this spool time? I've got the same turbo I'm putting on an om606.910
Mine is a Dieselmeken 7.5mm pump. Set to 50/120 at the moment (weak tranny). 4 inch downpipe and 3 inch exhaust. The boost reference to the ALDA comes from the turbo.
There is a video on youtube by the name w463 G300 acceleration. I'll try to find the link an PM it you, it should give you an idea of the turbo's behaviour.
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