Governing OM617
Governing OM617
05-28-2020, 03:53 PM
#1
I need a constant saw speed of 540rpm under varying load conditions, ie: free spinning blade to buried in a hardwood log. For this I need a motor speed of roughly 3000rpm.
Much original plan was to use a Rostra Universal cruise control kit to govern. However in practice this did not work as I intended. The rpm wasn’t all over the map it would not hold steady above 1200 rpm or so. I then just tried to just use the accelerator pedal to slowly bring the rpm up to 3000 and hadn’t much difficulty. Same thing I can slowly bring it to 1200 or so and then it takes off like a rocket to 4000rpm if you don’t let off. This is with rear end in the air and car in gear but no real load. So I thought ok my foot just isn’t sensitive enough so I got out a small turnbuckle and hooked it up the the throttle linkage. Same results I can be at 1000 rpm and then turn the turnbuckle 1/8 turn tighter and I get a slight pause followed by the engine running away until I let the throttle back in.
It should be evident by now that clearly I have very little knowledge about the magic of an IP. But evidently we are not in Kansas anymore, it’s nothing like a carburetor... it is now obvious to me that throttle position is not directly correlated to rpm in a no load/light load condition. This rules out an electronic cruise control every being a possibility. Almost any industrial governor option I know of such a small for a generator or compressor also use throttle linkage actuation to function.
So how do I make this work?
One thought I had was to mod the injection pump. From what I understand there is a high idle setting that’s governs max rpm. If I couldn’t set this to 3000rpm much thoughts are I could have two throttle settings, idle and wide open throttle. At WOT the IP would then hold the rpm for me at various loads.
So does anyone know if A. this would work, and B. If there is even this much adjustment in that setting.
Anyone have a better reasonably low cost solution?
I have a bit of a unique situation. I am trying to run a circular sawmill off the rear axle of a 1983 300D.
I need a constant saw speed of 540rpm under varying load conditions, ie: free spinning blade to buried in a hardwood log. For this I need a motor speed of roughly 3000rpm.
Much original plan was to use a Rostra Universal cruise control kit to govern. However in practice this did not work as I intended. The rpm wasn’t all over the map it would not hold steady above 1200 rpm or so. I then just tried to just use the accelerator pedal to slowly bring the rpm up to 3000 and hadn’t much difficulty. Same thing I can slowly bring it to 1200 or so and then it takes off like a rocket to 4000rpm if you don’t let off. This is with rear end in the air and car in gear but no real load. So I thought ok my foot just isn’t sensitive enough so I got out a small turnbuckle and hooked it up the the throttle linkage. Same results I can be at 1000 rpm and then turn the turnbuckle 1/8 turn tighter and I get a slight pause followed by the engine running away until I let the throttle back in.
It should be evident by now that clearly I have very little knowledge about the magic of an IP. But evidently we are not in Kansas anymore, it’s nothing like a carburetor... it is now obvious to me that throttle position is not directly correlated to rpm in a no load/light load condition. This rules out an electronic cruise control every being a possibility. Almost any industrial governor option I know of such a small for a generator or compressor also use throttle linkage actuation to function.
So how do I make this work?
One thought I had was to mod the injection pump. From what I understand there is a high idle setting that’s governs max rpm. If I couldn’t set this to 3000rpm much thoughts are I could have two throttle settings, idle and wide open throttle. At WOT the IP would then hold the rpm for me at various loads.
So does anyone know if A. this would work, and B. If there is even this much adjustment in that setting.
Anyone have a better reasonably low cost solution?
05-28-2020, 04:31 PM
#2
Usually 617 engines have a MW pump with rsv governor wich is a variable speed and load governor.
High idle cut off wont help u much in that quest...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
U need a pump with a variable load konstant rpm governor ... like a tractor ... unfortunatly unless u find a rqv governor u can't do nothing about.
Usually 617 engines have a MW pump with rsv governor wich is a variable speed and load governor.
High idle cut off wont help u much in that quest...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
05-29-2020, 12:23 AM
#4
I cannot see any reason why an electronic cruise control wouldn't work, it would work exactly how it would move a throttle cable (assuming its not a version meant for electronic TBs). You'd just have to set the hysterisis (sensitivity) somehow.
In saying that, you could ghetto rig your own governor. The Lister diesels I own/use are just a set of flyweights forcing the rack closed and a spring to counter them connected to the throttle handle/arm, which adjusts the tension on them and therefore RPM. It would be an experiment but you'd make something work if you had the means...
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
There were diesel electric forklifts fitted with the OM617. Naturally aspirated and with an M pump. It would have the governor you'd need, however rarer than rocking horse shit....
I cannot see any reason why an electronic cruise control wouldn't work, it would work exactly how it would move a throttle cable (assuming its not a version meant for electronic TBs). You'd just have to set the hysterisis (sensitivity) somehow.
In saying that, you could ghetto rig your own governor. The Lister diesels I own/use are just a set of flyweights forcing the rack closed and a spring to counter them connected to the throttle handle/arm, which adjusts the tension on them and therefore RPM. It would be an experiment but you'd make something work if you had the means...
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
05-29-2020, 12:58 AM
#5
Wardbrook I have a bit of a unique situation. I am trying to run a circular sawmill off the rear axle of a 1983 300D.What about a governor from a diesel generator. They have to be kept at a certain RPM under various loads.
I need a constant saw speed of 540rpm under varying load conditions, ie: free spinning blade to buried in a hardwood log. For this I need a motor speed of roughly 3000rpm.
Much original plan was to use a Rostra Universal cruise control kit to govern. However in practice this did not work as I intended. The rpm wasn’t all over the map it would not hold steady above 1200 rpm or so. I then just tried to just use the accelerator pedal to slowly bring the rpm up to 3000 and hadn’t much difficulty. Same thing I can slowly bring it to 1200 or so and then it takes off like a rocket to 4000rpm if you don’t let off. This is with rear end in the air and car in gear but no real load. So I thought ok my foot just isn’t sensitive enough so I got out a small turnbuckle and hooked it up the the throttle linkage. Same results I can be at 1000 rpm and then turn the turnbuckle 1/8 turn tighter and I get a slight pause followed by the engine running away until I let the throttle back in.
It should be evident by now that clearly I have very little knowledge about the magic of an IP. But evidently we are not in Kansas anymore, it’s nothing like a carburetor... it is now obvious to me that throttle position is not directly correlated to rpm in a no load/light load condition. This rules out an electronic cruise control every being a possibility. Almost any industrial governor option I know of such a small for a generator or compressor also use throttle linkage actuation to function.
So how do I make this work?
One thought I had was to mod the injection pump. From what I understand there is a high idle setting that’s governs max rpm. If I couldn’t set this to 3000rpm much thoughts are I could have two throttle settings, idle and wide open throttle. At WOT the IP would then hold the rpm for me at various loads.
So does anyone know if A. this would work, and B. If there is even this much adjustment in that setting.
Anyone have a better reasonably low cost solution?
Wardbrook I have a bit of a unique situation. I am trying to run a circular sawmill off the rear axle of a 1983 300D.What about a governor from a diesel generator. They have to be kept at a certain RPM under various loads.
I need a constant saw speed of 540rpm under varying load conditions, ie: free spinning blade to buried in a hardwood log. For this I need a motor speed of roughly 3000rpm.
Much original plan was to use a Rostra Universal cruise control kit to govern. However in practice this did not work as I intended. The rpm wasn’t all over the map it would not hold steady above 1200 rpm or so. I then just tried to just use the accelerator pedal to slowly bring the rpm up to 3000 and hadn’t much difficulty. Same thing I can slowly bring it to 1200 or so and then it takes off like a rocket to 4000rpm if you don’t let off. This is with rear end in the air and car in gear but no real load. So I thought ok my foot just isn’t sensitive enough so I got out a small turnbuckle and hooked it up the the throttle linkage. Same results I can be at 1000 rpm and then turn the turnbuckle 1/8 turn tighter and I get a slight pause followed by the engine running away until I let the throttle back in.
It should be evident by now that clearly I have very little knowledge about the magic of an IP. But evidently we are not in Kansas anymore, it’s nothing like a carburetor... it is now obvious to me that throttle position is not directly correlated to rpm in a no load/light load condition. This rules out an electronic cruise control every being a possibility. Almost any industrial governor option I know of such a small for a generator or compressor also use throttle linkage actuation to function.
So how do I make this work?
One thought I had was to mod the injection pump. From what I understand there is a high idle setting that’s governs max rpm. If I couldn’t set this to 3000rpm much thoughts are I could have two throttle settings, idle and wide open throttle. At WOT the IP would then hold the rpm for me at various loads.
So does anyone know if A. this would work, and B. If there is even this much adjustment in that setting.
Anyone have a better reasonably low cost solution?
05-29-2020, 01:11 AM
#6
(05-29-2020, 12:58 AM)zeeman What about a governor from a diesel generator. They have to be kept at a certain RPM under various loads.But how do you fit that to a MW or M pump....
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(05-29-2020, 12:58 AM)zeeman What about a governor from a diesel generator. They have to be kept at a certain RPM under various loads.But how do you fit that to a MW or M pump....
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
05-29-2020, 01:18 AM
#7
Then there's the electronic rotary pump on the 2.9 OM602 (602.982?) you could adapt. Then you need an ECU and all that rubbish.
Could always sell the car, buy a rusted out 240D and use any common as mud 4 cylinder diesel industrial engine injector pump...(Bosch A pump, P pump of 4BT yadda yadda)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
You could find an injector pump from an industrial 5 cylinder engine, but they're very rare too. Deutz F5L912 is one example. Once again finding a way to adapt to the engine.
Then there's the electronic rotary pump on the 2.9 OM602 (602.982?) you could adapt. Then you need an ECU and all that rubbish.
Could always sell the car, buy a rusted out 240D and use any common as mud 4 cylinder diesel industrial engine injector pump...(Bosch A pump, P pump of 4BT yadda yadda)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
05-29-2020, 07:21 AM
#8
(05-29-2020, 12:23 AM)NZScott I cannot see any reason why an electronic cruise control wouldn't work, it would work exactly how it would move a throttle cable (assuming its not a version meant for electronic TBs). You'd just have to set the hysterisis (sensitivity) somehow
I have the sensitivity set to the minimum I think (as far as I can hypothesis) the problem lies in the no load condition of the blade spinning when not cutting. There doesn’t seem to be any amount of sensitivity that keeps the motor from running away. Like I said I removed the cruise to experiment with throttle using a turnbuckle so that I could open it as slowly as possible with full control and hold in any position.
In this experiment the engine seems to go from 1100 rpm to taking off to 4000 with the tinyest additional adjustment increase. I don’t quite understand this phenomenon but I chocked it up to not really fully understanding an injection pump function.
I may have to scrap this idea and instead of using this rusted out 300D as my drive I have a rusty Jeep Cherokee 4.0 I might have to use I believe the gas engine will react the way I expect with the cruise functioning. I really want to use the diesel though for better fuel consumption and general cool factor. Besides it’s way more comfortable to sit in if I want to warm up on a cold day sawing...
I really don’t want to invest a tremendous amount more money into this project so that might have to be the route.
(05-29-2020, 12:23 AM)NZScott I cannot see any reason why an electronic cruise control wouldn't work, it would work exactly how it would move a throttle cable (assuming its not a version meant for electronic TBs). You'd just have to set the hysterisis (sensitivity) somehow
I have the sensitivity set to the minimum I think (as far as I can hypothesis) the problem lies in the no load condition of the blade spinning when not cutting. There doesn’t seem to be any amount of sensitivity that keeps the motor from running away. Like I said I removed the cruise to experiment with throttle using a turnbuckle so that I could open it as slowly as possible with full control and hold in any position.
In this experiment the engine seems to go from 1100 rpm to taking off to 4000 with the tinyest additional adjustment increase. I don’t quite understand this phenomenon but I chocked it up to not really fully understanding an injection pump function.
I may have to scrap this idea and instead of using this rusted out 300D as my drive I have a rusty Jeep Cherokee 4.0 I might have to use I believe the gas engine will react the way I expect with the cruise functioning. I really want to use the diesel though for better fuel consumption and general cool factor. Besides it’s way more comfortable to sit in if I want to warm up on a cold day sawing...
I really don’t want to invest a tremendous amount more money into this project so that might have to be the route.
05-29-2020, 09:17 AM
#9
Many jonh deere use type A pumps wich is much similar to mw pump. Just hook it anf that it. Or find a pump from 5 cyl tractor any will do ... fit it and thats all...
No car in the world have variable load governors...
M pumps have rsf/rsv/rsq c governors... but as i said M pump is automotive so u wont find any with a variable load unit.
Generators have only 2 speed , off load and onload .
Onload is set at best SFC acording to generator unit HZ, in EU is 50.00 more or less .05
Maybe u just can spend your money in a 40year old farm tractor
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
U need a farm tractor governor, as all tractors have a variable load konstant speed governor...
Many jonh deere use type A pumps wich is much similar to mw pump. Just hook it anf that it. Or find a pump from 5 cyl tractor any will do ... fit it and thats all...
No car in the world have variable load governors...
M pumps have rsf/rsv/rsq c governors... but as i said M pump is automotive so u wont find any with a variable load unit.
Generators have only 2 speed , off load and onload .
Onload is set at best SFC acording to generator unit HZ, in EU is 50.00 more or less .05
Maybe u just can spend your money in a 40year old farm tractor
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
05-29-2020, 11:25 AM
#10
(05-29-2020, 09:17 AM)barrote U need a farm tractor governor, as all tractors have a variable load konstant speed governor...
Many jonh deere use type A pumps wich is much similar to mw pump. Just hook it anf that it. Or find a pump from 5 cyl tractor any will do ... fit it and thats all...
No car in the world have variable load governors...
M pumps have rsf/rsv/rsq c governors... but as i said M pump is automotive so u wont find any with a variable load unit.
Generators have only 2 speed , off load and onload .
Onload is set at best SFC acording to generator unit HZ, in EU is 50.00 more or less .05
Maybe u just can spend your money in a 40year old farm tractor
Two speed is essentially what I need, idle and 3000rpm (which through gearing gets me 540rpm blade speed) the blades are dished to run at a certain rpm, higher or lower they will not run true.
I understand that no car is going to have a proper governor to do this as it’s not something a car needs to do. Some work trucks with auxiliary hydraulics or other PTO run devices have this but no passenger vehicle. I mistakenly thought I could use a cruise control to cheat it but for whatever reason as I stated the throttle position is not directly correlated to engine rpm so this doesn’t work at all how I envisioned. Sounds like maybe an A pump would work but I suspect that’s far from a bolt on mod...pumps aren’t exactly cheap either.
Why wouldn’t lowering the max RPM setting work? If it could limit max rpm to 3000 I could mash the throttle and have it hold at 3000 regardless of load or let off and idle. Two settings full on, and off. I do believe you this won’t work I am just curious why it won’t.
(05-29-2020, 09:17 AM)barrote U need a farm tractor governor, as all tractors have a variable load konstant speed governor...
Many jonh deere use type A pumps wich is much similar to mw pump. Just hook it anf that it. Or find a pump from 5 cyl tractor any will do ... fit it and thats all...
No car in the world have variable load governors...
M pumps have rsf/rsv/rsq c governors... but as i said M pump is automotive so u wont find any with a variable load unit.
Generators have only 2 speed , off load and onload .
Onload is set at best SFC acording to generator unit HZ, in EU is 50.00 more or less .05
Maybe u just can spend your money in a 40year old farm tractor
Two speed is essentially what I need, idle and 3000rpm (which through gearing gets me 540rpm blade speed) the blades are dished to run at a certain rpm, higher or lower they will not run true.
I understand that no car is going to have a proper governor to do this as it’s not something a car needs to do. Some work trucks with auxiliary hydraulics or other PTO run devices have this but no passenger vehicle. I mistakenly thought I could use a cruise control to cheat it but for whatever reason as I stated the throttle position is not directly correlated to engine rpm so this doesn’t work at all how I envisioned. Sounds like maybe an A pump would work but I suspect that’s far from a bolt on mod...pumps aren’t exactly cheap either.
Why wouldn’t lowering the max RPM setting work? If it could limit max rpm to 3000 I could mash the throttle and have it hold at 3000 regardless of load or let off and idle. Two settings full on, and off. I do believe you this won’t work I am just curious why it won’t.
05-29-2020, 01:14 PM
#11
(05-29-2020, 11:25 AM)WardbrookThe internal springs of the governor all interact, and if one of them is adjusted far out of the original spec, it will affect the rest. It's possible it could work, but I bet you'll find many other problems. The MW pump actually uses the RW governor on the OM617 (as far as I know), and there should be a few other governors that can bolt up the the MW housing. You could find one of these on ebay probably, or swap it over from a different pump. All information about these other governors is on the W-Archive. I've always wondered if the EDC governor can bolt up to the MW-pump, as that would allow anything to happen, both in a 300D and in whatever industrial purpose you desire.(05-29-2020, 09:17 AM)barrote U need a farm tractor governor, as all tractors have a variable load konstant speed governor...
Many jonh deere use type A pumps wich is much similar to mw pump. Just hook it anf that it. Or find a pump from 5 cyl tractor any will do ... fit it and thats all...
No car in the world have variable load governors...
M pumps have rsf/rsv/rsq c governors... but as i said M pump is automotive so u wont find any with a variable load unit.
Generators have only 2 speed , off load and onload .
Onload is set at best SFC acording to generator unit HZ, in EU is 50.00 more or less .05
Maybe u just can spend your money in a 40year old farm tractor
Two speed is essentially what I need, idle and 3000rpm (which through gearing gets me 540rpm blade speed) the blades are dished to run at a certain rpm, higher or lower they will not run true.
I understand that no car is going to have a proper governor to do this as it’s not something a car needs to do. Some work trucks with auxiliary hydraulics or other PTO run devices have this but no passenger vehicle. I mistakenly thought I could use a cruise control to cheat it but for whatever reason as I stated the throttle position is not directly correlated to engine rpm so this doesn’t work at all how I envisioned. Sounds like maybe an A pump would work but I suspect that’s far from a bolt on mod...pumps aren’t exactly cheap either.
Why wouldn’t lowering the max RPM setting work? If it could limit max rpm to 3000 I could mash the throttle and have it hold at 3000 regardless of load or let off and idle. Two settings full on, and off. I do believe you this won’t work I am just curious why it won’t.
(05-29-2020, 11:25 AM)WardbrookThe internal springs of the governor all interact, and if one of them is adjusted far out of the original spec, it will affect the rest. It's possible it could work, but I bet you'll find many other problems. The MW pump actually uses the RW governor on the OM617 (as far as I know), and there should be a few other governors that can bolt up the the MW housing. You could find one of these on ebay probably, or swap it over from a different pump. All information about these other governors is on the W-Archive. I've always wondered if the EDC governor can bolt up to the MW-pump, as that would allow anything to happen, both in a 300D and in whatever industrial purpose you desire.(05-29-2020, 09:17 AM)barrote U need a farm tractor governor, as all tractors have a variable load konstant speed governor...
Many jonh deere use type A pumps wich is much similar to mw pump. Just hook it anf that it. Or find a pump from 5 cyl tractor any will do ... fit it and thats all...
No car in the world have variable load governors...
M pumps have rsf/rsv/rsq c governors... but as i said M pump is automotive so u wont find any with a variable load unit.
Generators have only 2 speed , off load and onload .
Onload is set at best SFC acording to generator unit HZ, in EU is 50.00 more or less .05
Maybe u just can spend your money in a 40year old farm tractor
Two speed is essentially what I need, idle and 3000rpm (which through gearing gets me 540rpm blade speed) the blades are dished to run at a certain rpm, higher or lower they will not run true.
I understand that no car is going to have a proper governor to do this as it’s not something a car needs to do. Some work trucks with auxiliary hydraulics or other PTO run devices have this but no passenger vehicle. I mistakenly thought I could use a cruise control to cheat it but for whatever reason as I stated the throttle position is not directly correlated to engine rpm so this doesn’t work at all how I envisioned. Sounds like maybe an A pump would work but I suspect that’s far from a bolt on mod...pumps aren’t exactly cheap either.
Why wouldn’t lowering the max RPM setting work? If it could limit max rpm to 3000 I could mash the throttle and have it hold at 3000 regardless of load or let off and idle. Two settings full on, and off. I do believe you this won’t work I am just curious why it won’t.
05-29-2020, 10:40 PM
#12
(05-29-2020, 01:14 PM)nastala The internal springs of the governor all interact, and if one of them is adjusted far out of the original spec, it will affect the rest. It's possible it could work, but I bet you'll find many other problems. The MW pump actually uses the RW governor on the OM617 (as far as I know), and there should be a few other governors that can bolt up the the MW housing. You could find one of these on ebay probably, or swap it over from a different pump. All information about these other governors is on the W-Archive. I've always wondered if the EDC governor can bolt up to the MW-pump, as that would allow anything to happen, both in a 300D and in whatever industrial purpose you desire.
Of course! I forgot the MW pump was used on other non vehicle engines (IH DT466 comes to mind). Yes surely some industrial engine (rather than truck) with an MW pump would have a governor that should bolt onto the back of the 617 pump?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(05-29-2020, 01:14 PM)nastala The internal springs of the governor all interact, and if one of them is adjusted far out of the original spec, it will affect the rest. It's possible it could work, but I bet you'll find many other problems. The MW pump actually uses the RW governor on the OM617 (as far as I know), and there should be a few other governors that can bolt up the the MW housing. You could find one of these on ebay probably, or swap it over from a different pump. All information about these other governors is on the W-Archive. I've always wondered if the EDC governor can bolt up to the MW-pump, as that would allow anything to happen, both in a 300D and in whatever industrial purpose you desire.
Of course! I forgot the MW pump was used on other non vehicle engines (IH DT466 comes to mind). Yes surely some industrial engine (rather than truck) with an MW pump would have a governor that should bolt onto the back of the 617 pump?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
05-29-2020, 10:51 PM
#13
(05-29-2020, 10:40 PM)NZScottIf anyone is interested, I can get a list of every MW-pump engine application and what governor it uses.(05-29-2020, 01:14 PM)nastala The internal springs of the governor all interact, and if one of them is adjusted far out of the original spec, it will affect the rest. It's possible it could work, but I bet you'll find many other problems. The MW pump actually uses the RW governor on the OM617 (as far as I know), and there should be a few other governors that can bolt up the the MW housing. You could find one of these on ebay probably, or swap it over from a different pump. All information about these other governors is on the W-Archive. I've always wondered if the EDC governor can bolt up to the MW-pump, as that would allow anything to happen, both in a 300D and in whatever industrial purpose you desire.
Of course! I forgot the MW pump was used on other non vehicle engines (IH DT466 comes to mind). Yes surely some industrial engine (rather than truck) with an MW pump would have a governor that should bolt onto the back of the 617 pump?
(05-29-2020, 10:40 PM)NZScottIf anyone is interested, I can get a list of every MW-pump engine application and what governor it uses.(05-29-2020, 01:14 PM)nastala The internal springs of the governor all interact, and if one of them is adjusted far out of the original spec, it will affect the rest. It's possible it could work, but I bet you'll find many other problems. The MW pump actually uses the RW governor on the OM617 (as far as I know), and there should be a few other governors that can bolt up the the MW housing. You could find one of these on ebay probably, or swap it over from a different pump. All information about these other governors is on the W-Archive. I've always wondered if the EDC governor can bolt up to the MW-pump, as that would allow anything to happen, both in a 300D and in whatever industrial purpose you desire.
Of course! I forgot the MW pump was used on other non vehicle engines (IH DT466 comes to mind). Yes surely some industrial engine (rather than truck) with an MW pump would have a governor that should bolt onto the back of the 617 pump?
05-30-2020, 01:13 PM
#14
(05-29-2020, 10:51 PM)nastala If anyone is interested, I can get a list of every MW-pump engine application and what governor it uses.
If it’s not too much trouble I’d love that if I could find some part numbers for tractor style governors that fit an MW pump I could see if I can source one within my budget before I scrap this idea altogether and try a different power plant.
(05-29-2020, 10:51 PM)nastala If anyone is interested, I can get a list of every MW-pump engine application and what governor it uses.
If it’s not too much trouble I’d love that if I could find some part numbers for tractor style governors that fit an MW pump I could see if I can source one within my budget before I scrap this idea altogether and try a different power plant.
05-31-2020, 11:25 AM
#15
Although, as has been pointed out, the RW governor is not intended to work as you need, I think it may be possible to make it get you close enough to what you need, BUT, you will need special tools and will have to get into the back of the pump and make some adjustments many times. I would wager that a weaker High Speed governor spring will be needed.
I am thinking if you were to back off the Torque Control and reduce the High Speed governor spring tension that you may be able to run within the range of the High Speed governor.
Do you have any idea how much power you need to make?
The simplest solution is to just have a throttle-man.
Do I understand you correctly in that the engine is in the car still?
Although, as has been pointed out, the RW governor is not intended to work as you need, I think it may be possible to make it get you close enough to what you need, BUT, you will need special tools and will have to get into the back of the pump and make some adjustments many times. I would wager that a weaker High Speed governor spring will be needed.
I am thinking if you were to back off the Torque Control and reduce the High Speed governor spring tension that you may be able to run within the range of the High Speed governor.
Do you have any idea how much power you need to make?
The simplest solution is to just have a throttle-man.
05-31-2020, 08:31 PM
#16
(05-31-2020, 11:25 AM)OM616 Do I understand you correctly in that the engine is in the car still?
Although, as has been pointed out, the RW governor is not intended to work as you need, I think it may be possible to make it get you close enough to what you need, BUT, you will need special tools and will have to get into the back of the pump and make some adjustments many times. I would wager that a weaker High Speed governor spring will be needed.
I am thinking if you were to back off the Torque Control and reduce the High Speed governor spring tension that you may be able to run within the range of the High Speed governor.
Do you have any idea how much power you need to make?
The simplest solution is to just have a throttle-man.
That is correct, engine is in the complete car I have just made an adapter that bolts in place of one rear wheel which has a tractor PTO shaft 6 spline male output.
I think about 50-60hp would be more than I need in most scenarios. I was previously running the mill on a 30hp diesel tractor which was not quite up to the task. I could cut smaller logs but if the blade was fully buried it did not have the grunt.
Throttle man is not really a feasible option for one the mill is a one man operation I don't have anyone to help most of the time. But also it really needs to stay in a pretty fine window of operation at 540rpm blade speed. The blades are hammered into a dish which only runs true at the correct RPM, too fast or too slow and it will heat on either the hub or outer edge and cause lots of expensive problems as well as poor cutting.
(05-31-2020, 11:25 AM)OM616 Do I understand you correctly in that the engine is in the car still?
Although, as has been pointed out, the RW governor is not intended to work as you need, I think it may be possible to make it get you close enough to what you need, BUT, you will need special tools and will have to get into the back of the pump and make some adjustments many times. I would wager that a weaker High Speed governor spring will be needed.
I am thinking if you were to back off the Torque Control and reduce the High Speed governor spring tension that you may be able to run within the range of the High Speed governor.
Do you have any idea how much power you need to make?
The simplest solution is to just have a throttle-man.
That is correct, engine is in the complete car I have just made an adapter that bolts in place of one rear wheel which has a tractor PTO shaft 6 spline male output.
I think about 50-60hp would be more than I need in most scenarios. I was previously running the mill on a 30hp diesel tractor which was not quite up to the task. I could cut smaller logs but if the blade was fully buried it did not have the grunt.
Throttle man is not really a feasible option for one the mill is a one man operation I don't have anyone to help most of the time. But also it really needs to stay in a pretty fine window of operation at 540rpm blade speed. The blades are hammered into a dish which only runs true at the correct RPM, too fast or too slow and it will heat on either the hub or outer edge and cause lots of expensive problems as well as poor cutting.
06-02-2020, 09:59 AM
#18
(05-31-2020, 08:31 PM)Wardbrook(05-31-2020, 11:25 AM)OM616 Do I understand you correctly in that the engine is in the car still?
Although, as has been pointed out, the RW governor is not intended to work as you need, I think it may be possible to make it get you close enough to what you need, BUT, you will need special tools and will have to get into the back of the pump and make some adjustments many times. I would wager that a weaker High Speed governor spring will be needed.
I am thinking if you were to back off the Torque Control and reduce the High Speed governor spring tension that you may be able to run within the range of the High Speed governor.
Do you have any idea how much power you need to make?
The simplest solution is to just have a throttle-man.
That is correct, engine is in the complete car I have just made an adapter that bolts in place of one rear wheel which has a tractor PTO shaft 6 spline male output.
I think about 50-60hp would be more than I need in most scenarios. I was previously running the mill on a 30hp diesel tractor which was not quite up to the task. I could cut smaller logs but if the blade was fully buried it did not have the grunt.
Throttle man is not really a feasible option for one the mill is a one man operation I don't have anyone to help most of the time. But also it really needs to stay in a pretty fine window of operation at 540rpm blade speed. The blades are hammered into a dish which only runs true at the correct RPM, too fast or too slow and it will heat on either the hub or outer edge and cause lots of expensive problems as well as poor cutting.
Well that is an unique application of the car lol.. It will be very difficult to get a mechanical governor to maintain an engine speed the same from unloaded to fully loaded. Probably best to find a different power plant that is designed for your application.
(05-31-2020, 08:31 PM)Wardbrook(05-31-2020, 11:25 AM)OM616 Do I understand you correctly in that the engine is in the car still?
Although, as has been pointed out, the RW governor is not intended to work as you need, I think it may be possible to make it get you close enough to what you need, BUT, you will need special tools and will have to get into the back of the pump and make some adjustments many times. I would wager that a weaker High Speed governor spring will be needed.
I am thinking if you were to back off the Torque Control and reduce the High Speed governor spring tension that you may be able to run within the range of the High Speed governor.
Do you have any idea how much power you need to make?
The simplest solution is to just have a throttle-man.
That is correct, engine is in the complete car I have just made an adapter that bolts in place of one rear wheel which has a tractor PTO shaft 6 spline male output.
I think about 50-60hp would be more than I need in most scenarios. I was previously running the mill on a 30hp diesel tractor which was not quite up to the task. I could cut smaller logs but if the blade was fully buried it did not have the grunt.
Throttle man is not really a feasible option for one the mill is a one man operation I don't have anyone to help most of the time. But also it really needs to stay in a pretty fine window of operation at 540rpm blade speed. The blades are hammered into a dish which only runs true at the correct RPM, too fast or too slow and it will heat on either the hub or outer edge and cause lots of expensive problems as well as poor cutting.
Well that is an unique application of the car lol.. It will be very difficult to get a mechanical governor to maintain an engine speed the same from unloaded to fully loaded. Probably best to find a different power plant that is designed for your application.
06-06-2020, 03:34 PM
#19
What you need is an RSV governor. Also known by cummins guys as "Ag governor". Used on many farm tractors, combines and industrial equipment. The throttle position sets the speed from idle to max rpm, and the governor maintains it. It should be able to go from no load to full load in 200-300rpm. Both the M pump and the MW pump can be fitted with it. I guess you have the MW - You could get an entire MW pump with an RSV governor and swap over all the parts to the OM617 pump. Or take it to a pump shop that does custom pumps. I believe the Cummins 8.3CT came from the factory with a MW Pump/RSV governor
https://prnt.sc/sv254y
Imo just reducing the full load spring tension won't work too well. The problem is the spring is way too stiff. You would have a large droop from no load to full load. The reason why is that the centrifugal force rises with the square of rpm. At 5000 rpm the flyweight force is almost three times higher than at 3000 rpm. You would be running at a flatter part of the curve ( rpm squared times mass), so it would take a bigger rpm change to go from no fuel to max fuel. It's hard to explain by words. You would need a much weaker spring.
What you need is an RSV governor. Also known by cummins guys as "Ag governor". Used on many farm tractors, combines and industrial equipment. The throttle position sets the speed from idle to max rpm, and the governor maintains it. It should be able to go from no load to full load in 200-300rpm. Both the M pump and the MW pump can be fitted with it. I guess you have the MW - You could get an entire MW pump with an RSV governor and swap over all the parts to the OM617 pump. Or take it to a pump shop that does custom pumps. I believe the Cummins 8.3CT came from the factory with a MW Pump/RSV governor
https://prnt.sc/sv254y
11-11-2022, 10:30 AM
#20
I know this is an old thread, but just incase some else wants to try this, I would call Rostra and speak to the tech dept about the adjustment of the dip switches. They might be able to calm down the surge. Suggest to them that they should also look into the market for that application and generators and similar stationary power plants.
11-13-2022, 12:39 PM
#21
I use to build custom pumps... as a hobby, and i have a very good friend with a pump shop... he only does standard overhauls and repairs. Usually i do the customisation stuff...
Bosch inline pumps are pretty much same across all models,
1 plunger per cylinder and a rack to turn them to control output.
1 governing unit, responsible to govern the fuel output caracteristics, defined by eng manufacturer and aplication.
Regarding M pumps were only used in automotive, and one may find one out of this apliances, but they were not meant for other than vehicles, usually fited with RSF governor, wich is a variable speed GOV with a TQ restriction device.
There are 1st and 2nd generation pumps. Most found in 61x and 60x MB engines . Ford used this pumps in some of their products including farm tractors.
MW pumps are another tipe of beast, as they were meant for indudtrial aplications, they are found in light and heavy pumps.
MW used in automotive are the light versions either with RW or RQ governors, either of this are speed governors. It is not possible to set a speed and have a load compensation for this speed.
In industrial apliances its exactly the oposit, we need konstant speed at variable loads, MWV , RQV and RSV governors are available . If i'm not mystaken MWV is variable load within a range and variable speed , RQV is variable load but not varable speed ( usually used in gen sets) RSV is speed governor with full variable load control at any speed except idle .
In case somone want to use an engine in other apliance , outside its build purpose, it might be needed to check the performance caracteristics and correct if needed.
Regards to all.
FD,
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Hy gents...
I use to build custom pumps... as a hobby, and i have a very good friend with a pump shop... he only does standard overhauls and repairs. Usually i do the customisation stuff...
Bosch inline pumps are pretty much same across all models,
1 plunger per cylinder and a rack to turn them to control output.
1 governing unit, responsible to govern the fuel output caracteristics, defined by eng manufacturer and aplication.
Regarding M pumps were only used in automotive, and one may find one out of this apliances, but they were not meant for other than vehicles, usually fited with RSF governor, wich is a variable speed GOV with a TQ restriction device.
There are 1st and 2nd generation pumps. Most found in 61x and 60x MB engines . Ford used this pumps in some of their products including farm tractors.
MW pumps are another tipe of beast, as they were meant for indudtrial aplications, they are found in light and heavy pumps.
MW used in automotive are the light versions either with RW or RQ governors, either of this are speed governors. It is not possible to set a speed and have a load compensation for this speed.
In industrial apliances its exactly the oposit, we need konstant speed at variable loads, MWV , RQV and RSV governors are available . If i'm not mystaken MWV is variable load within a range and variable speed , RQV is variable load but not varable speed ( usually used in gen sets) RSV is speed governor with full variable load control at any speed except idle .
In case somone want to use an engine in other apliance , outside its build purpose, it might be needed to check the performance caracteristics and correct if needed.
Regards to all.
FD,
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