Turbo 240D: I'm doing it.
Turbo 240D: I'm doing it.
And I often have to remind myself to slow down in any situation that isn't stop and go traffic, anyway. I've also got a local guy who'll sell me a Supra five speed for about 150 bucks. I think I'd have an easier time finding a pedal set than finding readily available 4 speeds, I haven't found one yet and the dismantlers want 350 bucks for an iron casing model, 450 for the aluminum. I could fab up an adapter plate, maybe even make a few extra for others interested in going Toyota for their 5 speed. We know this trans works behind the OM617a, we just haven't seen one swapped into a 123 yet. And, adapter ring aside, I don't see it being much more work, if at all, than swapping the 4 speed in. If there was a readily available driveshaft that worked instead of having to alter the stock one, maybe it would really be harder, but in either case there's driveshaft surgery involved. Using a Supra or Celica driveshaft, we have a slip yoke in the front, so converting to a regular driveshaft with this trans is actually easier than doing so with a Benz trans.
But back to the 240DT. I'm thinking that the Callaway power level is replicable, and probably easily surpassible with the stock pump. Torque is on par with an OM617a, if not horsepower, but I'm thinking the weight difference might make up for some of that. It certainly does in the handling department...say, for argument's sake, that I replicated stock 617a power with the 616. Assuming identical suspension setups, wheels and tires, the 240DT would be a hair slower in acceleration (higher torque peak, we'll assume), but would eat the 300D/MT in the corners. A turbo, and later an IC, would certainly increase weight over the nose of the 240D, but wouldn't ever approach the nose weight of the 300D with the same turbo setup and manual trans.
Ooh, I might blow up a 616...no one is looking for those motors right now, not like they're looking for 617a's, and I can buy a manual 240D in any market and add the turbo setup with one trip to pick a part and a relaxed weekend. Finding manual transmissions and pedal sets in the yards hasn't been easy, and even if, say, I wanted to use the 240D to complete the manual swap on the 300D, a turbo would make an auto 240D a 'real' piece of transportation, not just a grocery getter for people who live in places like Kansas and Florida where there's no elevation change to speak of.
I'm going to find a K26, attached manifold, oil lines, pan, and whatever else I need from a dead 300D in the yards and probably an early 240D intake manifold and start there. A good question is what would be a good turbo upgrade for the 240DT after it was up and running with boost. I'm thinking, if Kiwibacon's assertion on the 'VGT vs. Disco Potato' thread is correct, then a K03 might be a good candidate - good response on engines like the 1.8t, virtually no lag. I'm thinking if it makes boost early enough it might even add to reliability, no need to spin the motor as high to go a given speed. If what Kiwi says is remotely true then the .6l difference in displacement between the 1.8t and the 616 doesn't disqualify it from working on the larger motor. The K04 compressor housing bolts on to make a hybrid similar in spirit to a T3/T4.
If I blow up the 616, oh well, then Project Blasphemy is ON!
CID Vicious
12-08-2009, 03:27 AM #1So I've been on the fence for awhile...I've got all I need to get a stick 300D, and I don't know if I'm willing to downgrade the 240D to automatic status. The car only has about 180k on it, and every time I hit the highway, I'm just like 'this car is perfect adequate...almost." And I often have to remind myself to slow down in any situation that isn't stop and go traffic, anyway.
I've also got a local guy who'll sell me a Supra five speed for about 150 bucks. I think I'd have an easier time finding a pedal set than finding readily available 4 speeds, I haven't found one yet and the dismantlers want 350 bucks for an iron casing model, 450 for the aluminum. I could fab up an adapter plate, maybe even make a few extra for others interested in going Toyota for their 5 speed. We know this trans works behind the OM617a, we just haven't seen one swapped into a 123 yet. And, adapter ring aside, I don't see it being much more work, if at all, than swapping the 4 speed in. If there was a readily available driveshaft that worked instead of having to alter the stock one, maybe it would really be harder, but in either case there's driveshaft surgery involved. Using a Supra or Celica driveshaft, we have a slip yoke in the front, so converting to a regular driveshaft with this trans is actually easier than doing so with a Benz trans.
But back to the 240DT. I'm thinking that the Callaway power level is replicable, and probably easily surpassible with the stock pump. Torque is on par with an OM617a, if not horsepower, but I'm thinking the weight difference might make up for some of that. It certainly does in the handling department...say, for argument's sake, that I replicated stock 617a power with the 616. Assuming identical suspension setups, wheels and tires, the 240DT would be a hair slower in acceleration (higher torque peak, we'll assume), but would eat the 300D/MT in the corners. A turbo, and later an IC, would certainly increase weight over the nose of the 240D, but wouldn't ever approach the nose weight of the 300D with the same turbo setup and manual trans.
Ooh, I might blow up a 616...no one is looking for those motors right now, not like they're looking for 617a's, and I can buy a manual 240D in any market and add the turbo setup with one trip to pick a part and a relaxed weekend. Finding manual transmissions and pedal sets in the yards hasn't been easy, and even if, say, I wanted to use the 240D to complete the manual swap on the 300D, a turbo would make an auto 240D a 'real' piece of transportation, not just a grocery getter for people who live in places like Kansas and Florida where there's no elevation change to speak of.
I'm going to find a K26, attached manifold, oil lines, pan, and whatever else I need from a dead 300D in the yards and probably an early 240D intake manifold and start there. A good question is what would be a good turbo upgrade for the 240DT after it was up and running with boost. I'm thinking, if Kiwibacon's assertion on the 'VGT vs. Disco Potato' thread is correct, then a K03 might be a good candidate - good response on engines like the 1.8t, virtually no lag. I'm thinking if it makes boost early enough it might even add to reliability, no need to spin the motor as high to go a given speed. If what Kiwi says is remotely true then the .6l difference in displacement between the 1.8t and the 616 doesn't disqualify it from working on the larger motor. The K04 compressor housing bolts on to make a hybrid similar in spirit to a T3/T4.
If I blow up the 616, oh well, then Project Blasphemy is ON!
if you want, i can donate my T3 from a 82sd. it does need a bearing rebuild, but its your at the cost of shipping. if you want to do a custom intake or header, please let me know, ive been itching to do one for some time now.
Now since its handling you are after, i think a fully gutted 240 could get down to the low 2k's if you tummy tucked the rear and did a fuel cell in place of the rear seat, removed door mechnisms, and only left what is absolutely necessary for operating. now this would have to be a momentum machine due to the power deficit, but would be a cool project.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Well, there just so happens to be a 240 taxi (minus the taxi dash) full manual including getrag 4 speed, crank windows, no sunroof, and manual climate control and can be had for $600 with title from a privately owned dismantling yard a friend of mine owns.
if you want, i can donate my T3 from a 82sd. it does need a bearing rebuild, but its your at the cost of shipping. if you want to do a custom intake or header, please let me know, ive been itching to do one for some time now.
Now since its handling you are after, i think a fully gutted 240 could get down to the low 2k's if you tummy tucked the rear and did a fuel cell in place of the rear seat, removed door mechnisms, and only left what is absolutely necessary for operating. now this would have to be a momentum machine due to the power deficit, but would be a cool project.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Lighter battery when the weather warms up. I've had zero problems with my smaller battery until a couple of weeks ago when it got pretty cold and I was leaving real early in the morning, which I usually never do. The battery is on it's way out, anyway; I want to see if a Civic sized battery would be up to the task in warm weather, winter you'd just have to suck up the weight increase. Also works to nullify the weight gain (total weight gain) from moving the battery to the trunk, all of that heavy gauge wire ain't made out of helium after all. Buying a smaller conventional battery is a cheaper alternative to something like an Odyssey, which I'm not entirely sure would be adequate for our cars even in warm weather.
I figure that the car can at least have a workable amount of power, enough so I don't get roasted by a stock Miata in a drag race
. If it works well enough in the initial stage then the idea of swapping in a better four cylinder IP can be explored, turbo upgrade or, I'm assuming, that if the 10mm elements work, then they'll work on the four cylinder pump as well. I figure that an early 240D intake will work, assuming that the EGR intake won't (packaging more than anything else, really), and I'm going with the chopped 617a manual approach - real easy, remove the rear port (the 'extra' cylinder) and plug with an appropriate sized freeze plug. Seen it done, the car would have been a success story if it had been running a healthy motor - I think it's over on Benzworld. People kind of panned it because it broke, but the motor wasn't in good shape to begin with - mine is.
Handling, man, I just want 617a power and 240D handling. The 300D feels ponderous in comparison, I TOSS that 240D around, the 300D just doesn't feel as willing to play, and the 240D's shocks are even shot, while the 300D's are relatively fine. 205 tires on the 300D vs 185s on the 240D, even, still feels like a much bigger car than it's smaller motored twin.
All I want is my four door, big trunked, huge legroom, designed for my 6'2" half German frame, diesel Miata!
I think it's a reasonable and attainable goal. If I want to chase Forced around...I'll just cheat with a 383 and roast his punk ass 
. I don't think I need to be the coolest Diesel Benz kid on the block with this project, if I wanted an 'ultimate' turbodiesel car I'd probably just get an A2 Jetta GLI with a blown motor (or running and sell the 16v) and find a wrecked TDI car. Or maybe pay for all of the time I'd lose and just get a running TDI, they're finally coming down in price. Can't make more HP, then go stupidly light weight instead, and wouldn't lose any trunk space, that's for sure. A2/TDI, for the money invested, would probably make our cars in anything less than 'Finn Trim' seem like glaciers, and regardless of suspension design a 2200lb car will be faster in the corners than a 3300lb car. Not to mention the TDI is a lot easier to get power out of, and the recipe for doing so isn't under lock and key in a Finn's skull (or MB's archives). Hmm...240D with a TDI? 190D badges would work, too, and the TDIs can be ran with mechanical pumps from the IDI 1.6 from what I've heard. Interesting approach, but I think this car will be a DD, just enhanced. And if I want to get stupid and sink money into a four wheeled pit, it's going to be a V8 before Al Gore gets them outlawed. Last thing I had with 8 cylinders was my 9C1, and I never even got to drive the damn thing...
CID Vicious
12-08-2009, 05:32 AM #3I'm thinking of ways to accomplish a happy medium between lowering the weight and ending up with a stripped out shell. Big thing is, my boss has sheets of Lexan just sitting around, so the side windows are going to be replaced with that. There's a lot of weight just right there. Rear windows could become fixed for all I care, no AC so rear seat passengers would probably get buffeted by two rolled down front windows anyway. Remove all AC components, rig up a simple way to get heat and defrost without going with MB replacement parts (I think this would cost more than the car did!). Remove sunroof, use original panel for mold for a fiberglass replacement. Might get adventurous and see what the car looks like without bumpers, would be fun for a little while at least but I'm not willing to get pulled over for this 'mod'...how much do Euro bumpers run for, I'm not interested in show pieces just functionality.
Lighter battery when the weather warms up. I've had zero problems with my smaller battery until a couple of weeks ago when it got pretty cold and I was leaving real early in the morning, which I usually never do. The battery is on it's way out, anyway; I want to see if a Civic sized battery would be up to the task in warm weather, winter you'd just have to suck up the weight increase. Also works to nullify the weight gain (total weight gain) from moving the battery to the trunk, all of that heavy gauge wire ain't made out of helium after all. Buying a smaller conventional battery is a cheaper alternative to something like an Odyssey, which I'm not entirely sure would be adequate for our cars even in warm weather.
I figure that the car can at least have a workable amount of power, enough so I don't get roasted by a stock Miata in a drag race . If it works well enough in the initial stage then the idea of swapping in a better four cylinder IP can be explored, turbo upgrade or, I'm assuming, that if the 10mm elements work, then they'll work on the four cylinder pump as well.
I figure that an early 240D intake will work, assuming that the EGR intake won't (packaging more than anything else, really), and I'm going with the chopped 617a manual approach - real easy, remove the rear port (the 'extra' cylinder) and plug with an appropriate sized freeze plug. Seen it done, the car would have been a success story if it had been running a healthy motor - I think it's over on Benzworld. People kind of panned it because it broke, but the motor wasn't in good shape to begin with - mine is.
Handling, man, I just want 617a power and 240D handling. The 300D feels ponderous in comparison, I TOSS that 240D around, the 300D just doesn't feel as willing to play, and the 240D's shocks are even shot, while the 300D's are relatively fine. 205 tires on the 300D vs 185s on the 240D, even, still feels like a much bigger car than it's smaller motored twin.
All I want is my four door, big trunked, huge legroom, designed for my 6'2" half German frame, diesel Miata! I think it's a reasonable and attainable goal. If I want to chase Forced around...I'll just cheat with a 383 and roast his punk ass . I don't think I need to be the coolest Diesel Benz kid on the block with this project, if I wanted an 'ultimate' turbodiesel car I'd probably just get an A2 Jetta GLI with a blown motor (or running and sell the 16v) and find a wrecked TDI car. Or maybe pay for all of the time I'd lose and just get a running TDI, they're finally coming down in price. Can't make more HP, then go stupidly light weight instead, and wouldn't lose any trunk space, that's for sure. A2/TDI, for the money invested, would probably make our cars in anything less than 'Finn Trim' seem like glaciers, and regardless of suspension design a 2200lb car will be faster in the corners than a 3300lb car. Not to mention the TDI is a lot easier to get power out of, and the recipe for doing so isn't under lock and key in a Finn's skull (or MB's archives).
Hmm...240D with a TDI? 190D badges would work, too, and the TDIs can be ran with mechanical pumps from the IDI 1.6 from what I've heard. Interesting approach, but I think this car will be a DD, just enhanced. And if I want to get stupid and sink money into a four wheeled pit, it's going to be a V8 before Al Gore gets them outlawed. Last thing I had with 8 cylinders was my 9C1, and I never even got to drive the damn thing...
(12-08-2009, 05:32 AM)CID Vicious Hmm...240D with a TDI?
Who knows how it turned out. The guy got to this point and never returned to the forums.
ForcedInduction
12-08-2009, 12:31 PM
#4
(12-08-2009, 05:32 AM)CID Vicious Hmm...240D with a TDI?
Who knows how it turned out. The guy got to this point and never returned to the forums.
CID Vicious
12-08-2009, 02:59 PM #5How hard was it to get it to bolt to the factory four speed? Unfortunately the TDI motors themselves go for not too much less than a complete car unless you can find a deal on one.
ForcedInduction
12-08-2009, 03:25 PM
#6
Looks like he was planning to make an adapter plate.
Man, if I ever hit the big time, my garage would be bigger than my house...
CID Vicious
12-08-2009, 03:58 PM #7Ooh, nice compact little oil pan...wonder if this could revitalize my 'ultimate handling 240D' concept. The TDI has to be way lighter than an OM61X, and if you could get the back of the engine close to the sway bar without contacting the hood or X member...
Man, if I ever hit the big time, my garage would be bigger than my house...
![[Image: IMG_4579.jpg]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b59/triple-d-racing/79%20Diesel/IMG_4579.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_4577.jpg]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b59/triple-d-racing/79%20Diesel/IMG_4577.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_4576.jpg]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b59/triple-d-racing/79%20Diesel/IMG_4576.jpg)
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Pulling the bumpers is over 150lbs in weight reduction, but doesnt look anywhere close to how euros looks:
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
ForcedInduction
12-09-2009, 02:13 AM
#9
The W114/115 can get away well with the bumperless look using just a pair of lights on the front. The W123...would need some bodywork to pull it off.
What's the cost on a pair of euro bumpers, ball park? I wouldn't mind find some that needed some hammer and dolly work and just hitting them with the Plasti-Dip.
CID Vicious
12-09-2009, 12:29 PM #10Hmm....I do bodywork
What's the cost on a pair of euro bumpers, ball park? I wouldn't mind find some that needed some hammer and dolly work and just hitting them with the Plasti-Dip.
GREASY_BEAST
12-09-2009, 02:07 PM #11Are 617 mounting arms all you would need to put the 616 right back against the firewall? If not, it would be simple fabrication and you could move the whole engine back about 6". That would help the handling.
(12-09-2009, 02:07 PM)GREASY_BEAST Are 617 mounting arms all you would need to put the 616 right back against the firewall?No. The oil pan and oil pump would be sitting right in the middle of the crossmember. You'd need to go dry sump or relocate the crossmember.
Euro bumpers are ~$150 ea. from an individual and probably under $50 at the junkyard.
ForcedInduction
12-09-2009, 02:10 PM
#12
(12-09-2009, 02:07 PM)GREASY_BEAST Are 617 mounting arms all you would need to put the 616 right back against the firewall?No. The oil pan and oil pump would be sitting right in the middle of the crossmember. You'd need to go dry sump or relocate the crossmember.
Euro bumpers are ~$150 ea. from an individual and probably under $50 at the junkyard.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
12-09-2009, 02:15 PM #13what dose a w114/w115 weigh??? a 220d can be found for cheap!!! If I remember correctly my 1966 w110 200d was like 2300-2400 # it was way faster than my 240d at w123 and that was with a worn out engine that barley ran
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
I don't know what kind of manifolds the 220D's motor runs, if they're compatible with our motors then it's as easy (sort of) as turboing a 240D, as easy as that may yet prove to be. Frankly I wouldn't want to go backwards to a swing axle, and I don't recall the last time I saw a 220D for sale - part of the W123's appeal is that you can always find parts, or another car if one dies or something.
I wish I would have found these years ago. I've been so all over the map - Civics, SE-R, couple of muscle cars that really never got off the ground unfortunately, MR2s (mistake), Volvo turbos...for the money, in my honest opinion as someone who's been obsessed with cars since he was 3 years old and is no dummy when it comes to them, that these are simply the best car in the world. The performance possibilities with little investment, the stock parts available to upgrade with (especially the brakes), the cover for you to do anything you want with any motor you want if you want to go outlaw about it. And all of the other cars that kind of sort of have these same qualities just aren't built like such a tank, I went to go look at a 240Z and that thing would get dented just from you pushing it up the driveway. Speaking of that, the best part: a sedan that I actually want to drive. Glacial acceleration aside my 240D is a great drivers car, and I've been saddled with shitty wheels (steel in the front, aluminum 'steelies' in the back, three of the same tire with a taller one on one of the front corners), blown out shocks...not exactly the car at it's best.
It's like an American car from some kind of alternate universe, where the bean counters didn't beat the car guys. The 240D reminds me of nothing so much as a Checker cab with everything you'd ever want done to it - nice interior, four wheel disc brakes, smoother styling, IRS, better motor and drivetrain...'Taxi Tough', indeed. And all of these rich folk who paid such a premium penny for the cars new kept them in nice condition compared to a comparable American car from the same era - god, what an average condition Malibu must look like now. Or, hah! a Ford Fairmont, even worse since no one really cared about them as a car to build.
I'm starting to think that a 300TD with a problem motor might be on my shopping list...while it would be a little porkier than a sedan it would be ideal for the V8 car. I really like how they look, and I've always been a wagon guy. I've had an idea for a sedan delivery and a wagon in the right condition would be perfect - sell the back doors, weld in sedan doors, and use aluminum sheet to replace the glass put in with Speedgripp. Still metal, but light, way lighter than it was with all that glass. Simplify the back like a real sedan delivery, get some kind of sport seats for the front so they'll fold forward, try to keep the back seats...or not. 383 with a five speed and 3.46 diff. Delete the SLS - use the proceeds to find some appropriate springs, if it's in good condition it could pay for the springs and a new set of shocks. While I'm fantasizing and putting in so much work might as well shave all the trim, maybe even shave the bumpers properly. Gloss or a high quality flat black paint job, lowered on the CLK five spoke wheels or AMG fives while I'm stroking away. Poor man's Magnum, just faster, cooler, and you can row your own.
CID Vicious
12-10-2009, 02:28 AM #14I test drove a 4 speed 220D and the thing was just godawful slow...although it might have been in need of a valve adjustment for all I know. I remember walking away unimpressed, but I was in the process of selling my SE-R at the time, and had been driving my cousin's 400hp supercharged Mustang to work, so it would have felt way slower than it was.
I don't know what kind of manifolds the 220D's motor runs, if they're compatible with our motors then it's as easy (sort of) as turboing a 240D, as easy as that may yet prove to be. Frankly I wouldn't want to go backwards to a swing axle, and I don't recall the last time I saw a 220D for sale - part of the W123's appeal is that you can always find parts, or another car if one dies or something.
I wish I would have found these years ago. I've been so all over the map - Civics, SE-R, couple of muscle cars that really never got off the ground unfortunately, MR2s (mistake), Volvo turbos...for the money, in my honest opinion as someone who's been obsessed with cars since he was 3 years old and is no dummy when it comes to them, that these are simply the best car in the world. The performance possibilities with little investment, the stock parts available to upgrade with (especially the brakes), the cover for you to do anything you want with any motor you want if you want to go outlaw about it. And all of the other cars that kind of sort of have these same qualities just aren't built like such a tank, I went to go look at a 240Z and that thing would get dented just from you pushing it up the driveway. Speaking of that, the best part: a sedan that I actually want to drive. Glacial acceleration aside my 240D is a great drivers car, and I've been saddled with shitty wheels (steel in the front, aluminum 'steelies' in the back, three of the same tire with a taller one on one of the front corners), blown out shocks...not exactly the car at it's best.
It's like an American car from some kind of alternate universe, where the bean counters didn't beat the car guys. The 240D reminds me of nothing so much as a Checker cab with everything you'd ever want done to it - nice interior, four wheel disc brakes, smoother styling, IRS, better motor and drivetrain...'Taxi Tough', indeed. And all of these rich folk who paid such a premium penny for the cars new kept them in nice condition compared to a comparable American car from the same era - god, what an average condition Malibu must look like now. Or, hah! a Ford Fairmont, even worse since no one really cared about them as a car to build.
I'm starting to think that a 300TD with a problem motor might be on my shopping list...while it would be a little porkier than a sedan it would be ideal for the V8 car. I really like how they look, and I've always been a wagon guy. I've had an idea for a sedan delivery and a wagon in the right condition would be perfect - sell the back doors, weld in sedan doors, and use aluminum sheet to replace the glass put in with Speedgripp. Still metal, but light, way lighter than it was with all that glass. Simplify the back like a real sedan delivery, get some kind of sport seats for the front so they'll fold forward, try to keep the back seats...or not. 383 with a five speed and 3.46 diff. Delete the SLS - use the proceeds to find some appropriate springs, if it's in good condition it could pay for the springs and a new set of shocks. While I'm fantasizing and putting in so much work might as well shave all the trim, maybe even shave the bumpers properly. Gloss or a high quality flat black paint job, lowered on the CLK five spoke wheels or AMG fives while I'm stroking away. Poor man's Magnum, just faster, cooler, and you can row your own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iry6S8TmuQI
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Oh you mean something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iry6S8TmuQI
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXSzS1jYdT0
I hand picked that just in case anyone wonders 'why I keep talking about Chevy V8s', and I was looking for 383 content too. I like the MB V8s, but any dummy can make stupid horsepower with a SBC, rebuild it, what have you. Which means I have at least as good a shot as the next dumbass
. Plus, I don't know, the MB sounds too...refined. The Chevies just have this demonic, gutteral growl...I was going to post an LS7 video but I don't know if I can fantasize that hard
Oh, what the hell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLVluVg2CA
Just beating the snot out of a GSX-R 600 in a drag race, no big.
CID Vicious
12-10-2009, 08:51 PM #16I mean something almost exactly like that...more like this though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXSzS1jYdT0
I hand picked that just in case anyone wonders 'why I keep talking about Chevy V8s', and I was looking for 383 content too. I like the MB V8s, but any dummy can make stupid horsepower with a SBC, rebuild it, what have you. Which means I have at least as good a shot as the next dumbass .
Plus, I don't know, the MB sounds too...refined. The Chevies just have this demonic, gutteral growl...I was going to post an LS7 video but I don't know if I can fantasize that hard
Oh, what the hell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLVluVg2CA
Just beating the snot out of a GSX-R 600 in a drag race, no big.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-c...-dyno.html
Unfortunately, the project stalled out due to lack of continued interest. Apparently the guy's brother died, which would take the wind out of the sails of most of us. There's some detail of the buildup but it's mostly the 'you're stupid to do this' responses from bench racers who've never seen one blow up, or probably even heard of one third-hand, it just 'doesn't seem right' to them.
"It's not going to last as long" - well, no shit. No car that's being flogged like it owes the driver money does in comparison to a car that's gently driven at the speed limit and never in anger. That's like saying that taking corners fast will wear your tires and supsension out quicker, and yet we still do it. I might add that an OM617a won't last as long as a stock OM616, either, and that few of us will be able to properly maintain one of these motors to get the 'magick million mile mark' anyway.
Turns out this guy plugged the fifth port on the exhaust manifold and modified the 617a intake by cutting it shorter and plugging it, and adding a flange to attach the hose couplers to. I think it'll be way easier to use an early 240D manifold. Glad to see that the exhaust manifold fits without much modification.
I'm going to have to see if the 617a pan will swap over or whether I'll have to get another 240D pan to add drainage, and find out where to access pressurized oil to feed the turbo.
Here's a little something can be done when you tell all the little chirping skeptics to go stuff it for awhile:
http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehicles...index.html
""How long until it grenades?" Those five words started a string on turbomustangs.com that has lasted more than a year with 50,000 visits and more than 60 pages of replies. Marty Stromberger originally posted it when he decided to find out just how much boost a stock two-bolt Chevy short-block could take. So far, his '88 Firebird has made 703 hp at the wheels and runs 9.74 at 141 mph using the stock block and rotator and a set of iron heads."
I, honestly, probably would have been one of the guys going 'you're wasting your time', 'the craptacular stock rods and pistons will never take the abuse', etc, etc. Meanwhile, the guy's running 9's. Blows the motor? Big deal, it's a SBC and they're a dime a dozen. A 305 would probably make almost as much power as the motor in that car. And the guy didn't even go the easy route and bolt some Vortec heads and lower intake to the setup.
My goals are waaaaaay more modest. Frankly, for the cost, effort, and eventual output, the 617a just doesn't do it for me. Even though I own a 300D for the time being, I'm less than floored by a car that has double the horsepower of my slightly lighter daily driver. Picture driving a stock B13, 115hp Sentra, and getting behind the wheel of a B13 SE-R with a DET swap, double the power and torque in the same car, and walking away going, 'eh'.
So the idea in the meantime is to make my 240D less of a rolling driver's purgatory. Only really true in the acceleration department, but when you're getting passed by Scions in traffic (and you have absolutely, positively no recourse short of taking your 'Panzer' and running his little ass off the road), it grinds you. I just want a daily driver that doesn't feel like I dropped anchor.
I commend anyone with the patience to pound their head against that cast iron 5 cylinder block, but I think I'm going to go with my instincts here. If I want diesel POWER, I think I'm going to look into the NPR diesels. More likely I'll just coast along until I amass the parts for my V8 daydream. Basically, if I'm going to go whole-hog, I'm going to go whole-hog.
If I can, I'll get this going, my engine seems to be in better condition than some of the other people who've tried this, and worse comes to worse, I have to buy new stock gaskets and bolt the stock parts back up. If I blow the motor, I'll shelve the car, buy another 240D stick and just drive that one, or maybe I'll try again. But those who want to go down this road will have a map of sorts.
CID Vicious
12-14-2009, 05:14 PM #17FYI, this is the thread that originally gave me the idea that this was doable:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-c...-dyno.html
Unfortunately, the project stalled out due to lack of continued interest. Apparently the guy's brother died, which would take the wind out of the sails of most of us. There's some detail of the buildup but it's mostly the 'you're stupid to do this' responses from bench racers who've never seen one blow up, or probably even heard of one third-hand, it just 'doesn't seem right' to them.
"It's not going to last as long" - well, no shit. No car that's being flogged like it owes the driver money does in comparison to a car that's gently driven at the speed limit and never in anger. That's like saying that taking corners fast will wear your tires and supsension out quicker, and yet we still do it. I might add that an OM617a won't last as long as a stock OM616, either, and that few of us will be able to properly maintain one of these motors to get the 'magick million mile mark' anyway.
Turns out this guy plugged the fifth port on the exhaust manifold and modified the 617a intake by cutting it shorter and plugging it, and adding a flange to attach the hose couplers to. I think it'll be way easier to use an early 240D manifold. Glad to see that the exhaust manifold fits without much modification.
I'm going to have to see if the 617a pan will swap over or whether I'll have to get another 240D pan to add drainage, and find out where to access pressurized oil to feed the turbo.
Here's a little something can be done when you tell all the little chirping skeptics to go stuff it for awhile:
http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehicles...index.html
""How long until it grenades?" Those five words started a string on turbomustangs.com that has lasted more than a year with 50,000 visits and more than 60 pages of replies. Marty Stromberger originally posted it when he decided to find out just how much boost a stock two-bolt Chevy short-block could take. So far, his '88 Firebird has made 703 hp at the wheels and runs 9.74 at 141 mph using the stock block and rotator and a set of iron heads."
I, honestly, probably would have been one of the guys going 'you're wasting your time', 'the craptacular stock rods and pistons will never take the abuse', etc, etc. Meanwhile, the guy's running 9's. Blows the motor? Big deal, it's a SBC and they're a dime a dozen. A 305 would probably make almost as much power as the motor in that car. And the guy didn't even go the easy route and bolt some Vortec heads and lower intake to the setup.
My goals are waaaaaay more modest. Frankly, for the cost, effort, and eventual output, the 617a just doesn't do it for me. Even though I own a 300D for the time being, I'm less than floored by a car that has double the horsepower of my slightly lighter daily driver. Picture driving a stock B13, 115hp Sentra, and getting behind the wheel of a B13 SE-R with a DET swap, double the power and torque in the same car, and walking away going, 'eh'.
So the idea in the meantime is to make my 240D less of a rolling driver's purgatory. Only really true in the acceleration department, but when you're getting passed by Scions in traffic (and you have absolutely, positively no recourse short of taking your 'Panzer' and running his little ass off the road), it grinds you. I just want a daily driver that doesn't feel like I dropped anchor.
I commend anyone with the patience to pound their head against that cast iron 5 cylinder block, but I think I'm going to go with my instincts here. If I want diesel POWER, I think I'm going to look into the NPR diesels. More likely I'll just coast along until I amass the parts for my V8 daydream. Basically, if I'm going to go whole-hog, I'm going to go whole-hog.
If I can, I'll get this going, my engine seems to be in better condition than some of the other people who've tried this, and worse comes to worse, I have to buy new stock gaskets and bolt the stock parts back up. If I blow the motor, I'll shelve the car, buy another 240D stick and just drive that one, or maybe I'll try again. But those who want to go down this road will have a map of sorts.
(12-10-2009, 02:28 AM)CID Vicious I don't know what kind of manifolds the 220D's motor runs, if they're compatible with our motors then it's as easy (sort of) as turboing a 240D, as easy as that may yet prove to be. Frankly I wouldn't want to go backwards to a swing axle, and I don't recall the last time I saw a 220D for sale - part of the W123's appeal is that you can always find parts, or another car if one dies or something.
check out my 240d turbo build the intake and exhaust manifolds I used are off a 220d
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/old-...t-447.html
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
12-24-2009, 02:34 PM #18(12-10-2009, 02:28 AM)CID Vicious I don't know what kind of manifolds the 220D's motor runs, if they're compatible with our motors then it's as easy (sort of) as turboing a 240D, as easy as that may yet prove to be. Frankly I wouldn't want to go backwards to a swing axle, and I don't recall the last time I saw a 220D for sale - part of the W123's appeal is that you can always find parts, or another car if one dies or something.
check out my 240d turbo build the intake and exhaust manifolds I used are off a 220d
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/old-...t-447.html
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
I'm still planning on going forward with this (especially since I found out about the oil filter plate, thanks, btw!), it might not end up in a W123 but I'm not going to let this motor go to waste. However, I think my engine swap is going to have twice as many cylinders and spark plugs. The 616T would still be awesome for an older vehicle, I'm looking for a 75 or older car so I don't have to worry about legality. A 510 would be pretty sweet with one of these, or an old Toyota Hilux. At first I wanted to use the 4 speed for a STD project, but it just doesn't seem like I'm going to be able to take full advantage of the OM617a to make it really worthwhile, and even if I could, I could easily best that with a V8.
Besides, this motor makes way more sense for a lighter car. This motor wouldn't be underpowered in such a car, it would seem willing. A Miata would actually be perfect except for living in Kalifornia, that's not going to happen. However, I could really use a pickup so finding an old Datsun or LUV or something not running and cheap would let me use the motor, have a pickup truck for hauling parts and whatnot. I wish I could get the old Studebaker Lark VI I used to have, 2500lb Mercedes wannabe crippled by an old Champion flat six (though it does make the most delightful of vintage motor noises). 55k original miles, original paint, never got so many beeps and thumbs up driving anything else in my entire life. This motor and trans would turn that in to a usable car. Or something similar.
Or, I might wake up from my big cubic inch dream and just slap a turbo on this puppy. I'm going to head to PAP next week and see what the parts would cost and what's available. A couple of 300Ds with K26s were there last time, grab the lines, plate, manifolds and turbo. The V8 thing will be at least a grand anyway, if I can get this done in the meantime I'd be happy. The K26 would be the ideal starter turbo.
CID Vicious
12-24-2009, 04:03 PM #19I'd have to say, if you're satisfied with your 'vintage' turbo then a later, wastegated setup would be even sweeter. Small VGT would be good, too.
I'm still planning on going forward with this (especially since I found out about the oil filter plate, thanks, btw!), it might not end up in a W123 but I'm not going to let this motor go to waste. However, I think my engine swap is going to have twice as many cylinders and spark plugs. The 616T would still be awesome for an older vehicle, I'm looking for a 75 or older car so I don't have to worry about legality. A 510 would be pretty sweet with one of these, or an old Toyota Hilux. At first I wanted to use the 4 speed for a STD project, but it just doesn't seem like I'm going to be able to take full advantage of the OM617a to make it really worthwhile, and even if I could, I could easily best that with a V8.
Besides, this motor makes way more sense for a lighter car. This motor wouldn't be underpowered in such a car, it would seem willing. A Miata would actually be perfect except for living in Kalifornia, that's not going to happen. However, I could really use a pickup so finding an old Datsun or LUV or something not running and cheap would let me use the motor, have a pickup truck for hauling parts and whatnot. I wish I could get the old Studebaker Lark VI I used to have, 2500lb Mercedes wannabe crippled by an old Champion flat six (though it does make the most delightful of vintage motor noises). 55k original miles, original paint, never got so many beeps and thumbs up driving anything else in my entire life. This motor and trans would turn that in to a usable car. Or something similar.
Or, I might wake up from my big cubic inch dream and just slap a turbo on this puppy. I'm going to head to PAP next week and see what the parts would cost and what's available. A couple of 300Ds with K26s were there last time, grab the lines, plate, manifolds and turbo. The V8 thing will be at least a grand anyway, if I can get this done in the meantime I'd be happy. The K26 would be the ideal starter turbo.
Here is the truck you need a Datsun 620 they look friggn sweet would be bad ass with a benz power plant
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
12-24-2009, 06:08 PM #20It makes all of it boost at high rpm right now, but it will make 10psi at 5500ft elevation near red line! I need to swap this engine and 4spd in my other 240d auto but after I take my old engine out I'm going to rebuild it with turbo pistons and rods and oil squirters! new sleeves and rings and bearings! Then I want to modify a Subaru vf11 to fit on there with internal wast gate and an air 2 water intercooler and then put some bigger elements in there and some propane for good measure!!!
Here is the truck you need a Datsun 620 they look friggn sweet would be bad ass with a benz power plant
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
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