Excess oil in boost circuit
Excess oil in boost circuit
03-06-2021, 04:45 PM
#1
50harleyrider
03-06-2021, 04:45 PM #1Is this just something I should live with as long as there is little oil consumption? I suspect either too much pressure in the turbo oil supply, or blowby. I have retained the oe w210 breather tube which dumps into the turbo compressor inlet. I don't particularly like that and thought maybe dump the blowby into a high end Provent or equal separator. Any thoughts or suggestions? I do have a short 3/4" drain from the turbo so backup shouldn't be a problem. I also thought maybe the recent rebuilt by Dutch Auto om648 Garrett turbo I'm now running requires less oil then the 606 oe KKK. The shaft has no play so I know bearings aren't the issue. All the clamps on the boost piping are leaking oil and are tight.
03-07-2021, 12:55 AM
#4
This post was last modified: 03-07-2021, 12:56 AM by AlanMcR.
Follow up: Not sure why you have oil leaking outside of the boost system. I certainly have oil inside the boost tubes, but no external leaks. In any case, the total oil leaked is minimal. I never have to add oil and at the 5K mile oil changes I'm short less than a quart.
03-07-2021, 01:18 PM
#5
(03-06-2021, 04:45 PM)50harleyrider Is this just something I should live with as long as there is little oil consumption? I suspect either too much pressure in the turbo oil supply, or blowby. I have retained the oe w210 breather tube which dumps into the turbo compressor inlet. I don't particularly like that and thought maybe dump the blowby into a high end Provent or equal separator. Any thoughts or suggestions? I do have a short 3/4" drain from the turbo so backup shouldn't be a problem. I also thought maybe the recent rebuilt by Dutch Auto om648 Garrett turbo I'm now running requires less oil then the 606 oe KKK. The shaft has no play so I know bearings aren't the issue. All the clamps on the boost piping are leaking oil and are tight.Are you getting oil into the turbo on the intake side or after the turbo in the intercooler tubes going to the intake ? There should be no amount of oil in the tubes other then vapor. A vapor trap or canister is a good idea for the tube in the valve cover to exit to instead of directly into the intake of the turbo.
(03-06-2021, 04:45 PM)50harleyrider Is this just something I should live with as long as there is little oil consumption? I suspect either too much pressure in the turbo oil supply, or blowby. I have retained the oe w210 breather tube which dumps into the turbo compressor inlet. I don't particularly like that and thought maybe dump the blowby into a high end Provent or equal separator. Any thoughts or suggestions? I do have a short 3/4" drain from the turbo so backup shouldn't be a problem. I also thought maybe the recent rebuilt by Dutch Auto om648 Garrett turbo I'm now running requires less oil then the 606 oe KKK. The shaft has no play so I know bearings aren't the issue. All the clamps on the boost piping are leaking oil and are tight.Are you getting oil into the turbo on the intake side or after the turbo in the intercooler tubes going to the intake ? There should be no amount of oil in the tubes other then vapor. A vapor trap or canister is a good idea for the tube in the valve cover to exit to instead of directly into the intake of the turbo.
03-08-2021, 08:03 AM
#6
X Double Dot
03-08-2021, 08:03 AM #6I've got a separator that I run the hose to the valve cover through before it goes into the turbo inlet. I put some of that dish washing stainless steel mesh stuff in to help get the oil vapor to condense/collect in there rather than the intake. It's kind of crappy, and definitely undersized, but it does collect about 1/3 of a coffee mug every oil change.
03-08-2021, 07:27 PM
#8
I want to run an oil restrictor on both my turbos. I am running an under utilized compound set up with my he351cw
and the stock turbo. Running about 34 psi.. I would surmise it is also some blowby.
I too am having that issue. I have a catch can it isn't totally filling up, but oil is leaking out of my couplers. And blasting my air filter.
I want to run an oil restrictor on both my turbos. I am running an under utilized compound set up with my he351cw
and the stock turbo. Running about 34 psi.. I would surmise it is also some blowby.
03-09-2021, 12:05 PM
#9
Minor leaks in the boost plumbing aren't a performance issue (how much boost could you lose through a pinhole?), but they are irritating from an oil mess standpoint. They can be sealed up completely. Mine will hold 50psi for an extended period and is completely dry on the outside.
How can oil get to your air filter? The flow is from the air filter, past the crankcase T in the intake hose, then into the turbo. Most of the oil vapor gets sucked through into the cylinders directly. A little condenses on the walls and flows into engine as a film.
Minor leaks in the boost plumbing aren't a performance issue (how much boost could you lose through a pinhole?), but they are irritating from an oil mess standpoint. They can be sealed up completely. Mine will hold 50psi for an extended period and is completely dry on the outside.
03-09-2021, 09:34 PM
#10
(03-09-2021, 12:05 PM)AlanMcR How can oil get to your air filter? The flow is from the air filter, past the crankcase T in the intake hose, then into the turbo. Most of the oil vapor gets sucked through into the cylinders directly. A little condenses on the walls and flows into engine as a film.
Minor leaks in the boost plumbing aren't a performance issue (how much boost could you lose through a pinhole?), but they are irritating from an oil mess standpoint. They can be sealed up completely. Mine will hold 50psi for an extended period and is completely dry on the outside.
My breather goes to a catch can, and then back up to my gmt800 stock airbox and plumbs into the hole that used to be for the air filter specific flow meter. It was just a spring loaded cylindrical gauge to tell if the filter had a restriction in it... It's on the clean side of the filter box so the oil vapour cloud pukes onto that side of the filter. Before getting sucked into my low pressure turbo. It was a convenient hole at the time... I just haven't addressed that issue yet.. even if I re plumb it. It isn't solving the oil in the crank case vapours..
(03-09-2021, 12:05 PM)AlanMcR How can oil get to your air filter? The flow is from the air filter, past the crankcase T in the intake hose, then into the turbo. Most of the oil vapor gets sucked through into the cylinders directly. A little condenses on the walls and flows into engine as a film.
Minor leaks in the boost plumbing aren't a performance issue (how much boost could you lose through a pinhole?), but they are irritating from an oil mess standpoint. They can be sealed up completely. Mine will hold 50psi for an extended period and is completely dry on the outside.
My breather goes to a catch can, and then back up to my gmt800 stock airbox and plumbs into the hole that used to be for the air filter specific flow meter. It was just a spring loaded cylindrical gauge to tell if the filter had a restriction in it... It's on the clean side of the filter box so the oil vapour cloud pukes onto that side of the filter. Before getting sucked into my low pressure turbo. It was a convenient hole at the time... I just haven't addressed that issue yet.. even if I re plumb it. It isn't solving the oil in the crank case vapours..
03-10-2021, 01:44 PM
#12
(03-10-2021, 01:00 PM)AlanMcR Really folks, there is nothing wrong with oil mist going into the intake. It is hydrocarbons and water vapor. Chances are that the mist is factored into the ring lube calculations. Take it out at your own peril.Take a look at the inside of your intake runners and the intake head ports and valves, if you think the oil vapor build up is okay. Really.
(03-10-2021, 01:00 PM)AlanMcR Really folks, there is nothing wrong with oil mist going into the intake. It is hydrocarbons and water vapor. Chances are that the mist is factored into the ring lube calculations. Take it out at your own peril.Take a look at the inside of your intake runners and the intake head ports and valves, if you think the oil vapor build up is okay. Really.
03-10-2021, 01:50 PM
#13
(03-10-2021, 01:44 PM)zeemanI think most of that is from the egr(03-10-2021, 01:00 PM)AlanMcR Really folks, there is nothing wrong with oil mist going into the intake. It is hydrocarbons and water vapor. Chances are that the mist is factored into the ring lube calculations. Take it out at your own peril.Take a look at the inside of your intake runners and the intake head ports and valves, if you think the oil vapor build up is okay. Really.
it's best to filter (edit) *the oil mist* out through some media before it goes back into the intake, but on a diesel i don't think it's the end of the world. On a gas engine it matters a bit more for knock avoidance (oil has a low "octane" value) which i think it why you see some elaborate catch cans on modded cars (that clearly aren't doing it for the epa)
This post was last modified: 03-11-2021, 07:49 AM by X Double Dot.
X Double Dot
03-10-2021, 01:50 PM #13(03-10-2021, 01:44 PM)zeemanI think most of that is from the egr(03-10-2021, 01:00 PM)AlanMcR Really folks, there is nothing wrong with oil mist going into the intake. It is hydrocarbons and water vapor. Chances are that the mist is factored into the ring lube calculations. Take it out at your own peril.Take a look at the inside of your intake runners and the intake head ports and valves, if you think the oil vapor build up is okay. Really.
it's best to filter (edit) *the oil mist* out through some media before it goes back into the intake, but on a diesel i don't think it's the end of the world. On a gas engine it matters a bit more for knock avoidance (oil has a low "octane" value) which i think it why you see some elaborate catch cans on modded cars (that clearly aren't doing it for the epa)
03-10-2021, 07:31 PM
#14
03-10-2021, 07:53 PM
#15
(03-10-2021, 07:31 PM)AlanMcR The oil mist flows right into the cylinders. That crud in the intake manifold is a mixture of oil vapor and EGR soot. If you haven't stopped the EGR, that is your own fault. My intake manifold is clean with a thin film of oil. And that is at 300K miles.
Yeah I haven't had egr since the swap.
(03-10-2021, 07:31 PM)AlanMcR The oil mist flows right into the cylinders. That crud in the intake manifold is a mixture of oil vapor and EGR soot. If you haven't stopped the EGR, that is your own fault. My intake manifold is clean with a thin film of oil. And that is at 300K miles.
Yeah I haven't had egr since the swap.
03-12-2021, 11:36 AM
#16
(03-10-2021, 07:31 PM)AlanMcR The oil mist flows right into the cylinders. That crud in the intake manifold is a mixture of oil vapor and EGR soot. If you haven't stopped the EGR, that is your own fault. My intake manifold is clean with a thin film of oil. And that is at 300K miles.Most of us are aware that the 606 EGR is a bad design, as is the vapors, blowby being sucked directly into the inlet of the turbo. The air from the turbo through the intercooler should be clean and free of contaminates as much as possible.
All this effects the density of the heated air coming from the turbo. The intercooler is cooling the air as well as any oil vapor coming into it and can be an oil trap in it self.
Any method of removing any oil vapor or soot is a bonus, especially if you have excessive blowby. I am sure the design of the EGR and the vapor tube coming from the valve cover was for the EPA.
The OM 617 engine has an air cleaner that collects the vapors and drains back to the crankcase.
(03-10-2021, 07:31 PM)AlanMcR The oil mist flows right into the cylinders. That crud in the intake manifold is a mixture of oil vapor and EGR soot. If you haven't stopped the EGR, that is your own fault. My intake manifold is clean with a thin film of oil. And that is at 300K miles.Most of us are aware that the 606 EGR is a bad design, as is the vapors, blowby being sucked directly into the inlet of the turbo. The air from the turbo through the intercooler should be clean and free of contaminates as much as possible.
All this effects the density of the heated air coming from the turbo. The intercooler is cooling the air as well as any oil vapor coming into it and can be an oil trap in it self.
Any method of removing any oil vapor or soot is a bonus, especially if you have excessive blowby. I am sure the design of the EGR and the vapor tube coming from the valve cover was for the EPA.
The OM 617 engine has an air cleaner that collects the vapors and drains back to the crankcase.
03-12-2021, 01:18 PM
#17
(03-06-2021, 04:45 PM)50harleyrider Is this just something I should live with as long as there is little oil consumption? I suspect either too much pressure in the turbo oil supply, or blowby. I have retained the oe w210 breather tube which dumps into the turbo compressor inlet. I don't particularly like that and thought maybe dump the blowby into a high end Provent or equal separator. Any thoughts or suggestions? I do have a short 3/4" drain from the turbo so backup shouldn't be a problem. I also thought maybe the recent rebuilt by Dutch Auto om648 Garrett turbo I'm now running requires less oil then the 606 oe KKK. The shaft has no play so I know bearings aren't the issue. All the clamps on the boost piping are leaking oil and are tight.This is the vapor recovery system I use on my conversions. Flashlube Catch Can Pro. It is made in Germany and is marketed from Australia. I get mine from a distributer in Fresno Calif.
They have a video of how the system works, very informative, there is more to this then just the oil vapor.
Attached Files
Image(s)(03-06-2021, 04:45 PM)50harleyrider Is this just something I should live with as long as there is little oil consumption? I suspect either too much pressure in the turbo oil supply, or blowby. I have retained the oe w210 breather tube which dumps into the turbo compressor inlet. I don't particularly like that and thought maybe dump the blowby into a high end Provent or equal separator. Any thoughts or suggestions? I do have a short 3/4" drain from the turbo so backup shouldn't be a problem. I also thought maybe the recent rebuilt by Dutch Auto om648 Garrett turbo I'm now running requires less oil then the 606 oe KKK. The shaft has no play so I know bearings aren't the issue. All the clamps on the boost piping are leaking oil and are tight.This is the vapor recovery system I use on my conversions. Flashlube Catch Can Pro. It is made in Germany and is marketed from Australia. I get mine from a distributer in Fresno Calif.
They have a video of how the system works, very informative, there is more to this then just the oil vapor.
Attached Files
Image(s)
03-16-2021, 09:38 AM
#18
beautiful craftmanship as always zeeman and I did go back to the 6BT MM's.
This post was last modified: 03-16-2021, 09:41 AM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
03-16-2021, 09:38 AM #18Thanks for all the input guys. I see this is a common issue for these engines. I am mailnly concerned with the oil hitting my precious compressor blades. I plan to dump the breather vent into the ground via a hose for awhile and see what affect it has before I install a separator or a supply restrictor in the turbo oil feed line.
beautiful craftmanship as always zeeman and I did go back to the 6BT MM's.
03-16-2021, 11:39 AM
#19
(03-16-2021, 09:38 AM)50harleyrider Thanks for all the input guys. I see this is a common issue for these engines. I am mailnly concerned with the oil hitting my precious compressor blades. I plan to dump the breather vent into the ground via a hose for awhile and see what affect it has before I install a separator or a supply restrictor in the turbo oil feed line.You might review the video and info on Flashlube, there is a lot more to the function of the vapor trap for engine life.
beautiful craftmanship as always zeeman and I did go back to the 6BT MM's.
(03-16-2021, 09:38 AM)50harleyrider Thanks for all the input guys. I see this is a common issue for these engines. I am mailnly concerned with the oil hitting my precious compressor blades. I plan to dump the breather vent into the ground via a hose for awhile and see what affect it has before I install a separator or a supply restrictor in the turbo oil feed line.You might review the video and info on Flashlube, there is a lot more to the function of the vapor trap for engine life.
beautiful craftmanship as always zeeman and I did go back to the 6BT MM's.
03-29-2021, 07:37 AM
#20
50harleyrider
03-29-2021, 07:37 AM #20Zeeman, are you directing the oil you catch back into the oil pan or just emptying it manually periodically?
03-30-2021, 10:54 AM
#21
(03-29-2021, 07:37 AM)50harleyrider Zeeman, are you directing the oil you catch back into the oil pan or just emptying it manually periodically?I am draining it periodically. As per the flashlube video there are some contaminates in the vapor, best to just drain it.
The Flashlube has a drain on the bottom.
(03-29-2021, 07:37 AM)50harleyrider Zeeman, are you directing the oil you catch back into the oil pan or just emptying it manually periodically?I am draining it periodically. As per the flashlube video there are some contaminates in the vapor, best to just drain it.
The Flashlube has a drain on the bottom.
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