Ideas and Stuff From Turbo Brick.com
Ideas and Stuff From Turbo Brick.com
01-08-2010, 02:04 PM
#1
First up is a Quick Spool Turbine Housing
Quote:Attention engineers!
I'm starting a community project. I have a T4 to T6 adapter plate installed before my T6 split turbine housing. The plan is to modify the adapter plate to include a flapper valve that will close off one section entrance to the split turbine housing. The idea is to force exhaust gases to use half the available area of the turbine housing to vent exhaust gases to the turbine wheel. This will increase exhaust flow velocity and hopefully lessen spool time. This is not a new idea, and it's pretty much, already been proven to work rather well.
The T4 to T6 adapter is not split, so the first mission will be to install a dividing wall to the adapter to match the dividing wall of the split turbine housing.
The next decision will be, what side of the split turbine housing to close off?
I'm thinking leaving open the side that will allow the longest contact of exhaust gases to the turbine wheel. Furthest away from the exit of the turbine housing.
Then material questions:
Material for the flapper valve? Thickness?
Material for the flapper valve shaft? Diameter?
Material for the flapper valve shaft bushings? Shaft to bushing clearance?
Other questions:
How to retain the flapper valve to the shaft?
Which direction to have the flapper valve close? The angle when closed?
Control mechanism? Method to close? Method to open?
I'm thinking CO2 cylinder to open and a simple return spring to close. Maybe control pressure could come from the wastegate system or simply be manifold pressure?
Quick Spool Turbine Housing Flapper Valve
Would this work in decreasing boost lag in non- vnt applications. The number he is claiming are interesting. At one point his EMP to Boost ratio was .85 to 1. Could on expect this kind of improvement on a Diesel motor?
The other item is an Automatic Exhaust Dump.
Quote:I bought a used throttle body off of a 4.6L Ford Crown Victoria. Removed the excess material that isn't needed like the TPS and also shortened the opening for ground clearance. I then fabricated a flange to weld to the exhaust system and to provide a place to mount the throttle body. I fabricated a bracket to attach a stock Turbo Buick wastegate actuator so it would open the throttle body as boost rises. After completed and installed, I ran a boost pressure line up to the intake so it would get a boost signal so it would open while under WOT. It's really a simple idea that works. Back pressure in my exhaust dropped to near zero from 3psi....not a whole lot since I'm running a 3" system but with a more restrictive exhaust system it would work even better.
It's quiet until you nail the throttle and best of all...it's totally automatic.
Automatic Exhaust Dump
A junkyard version of the way to expensive automatic dumps, plus this one is boost operated, not electrical.
This post was last modified: 01-08-2010, 03:08 PM by dartrpm.
In doing some research on PCV systems I cam across some interesting food for thought on the Turbobrick.com forum. I thought I would post it here for the good of the group and see what discussion is spurs.
First up is a Quick Spool Turbine Housing
Quote:Attention engineers!
I'm starting a community project. I have a T4 to T6 adapter plate installed before my T6 split turbine housing. The plan is to modify the adapter plate to include a flapper valve that will close off one section entrance to the split turbine housing. The idea is to force exhaust gases to use half the available area of the turbine housing to vent exhaust gases to the turbine wheel. This will increase exhaust flow velocity and hopefully lessen spool time. This is not a new idea, and it's pretty much, already been proven to work rather well.
The T4 to T6 adapter is not split, so the first mission will be to install a dividing wall to the adapter to match the dividing wall of the split turbine housing.
The next decision will be, what side of the split turbine housing to close off?
I'm thinking leaving open the side that will allow the longest contact of exhaust gases to the turbine wheel. Furthest away from the exit of the turbine housing.
Then material questions:
Material for the flapper valve? Thickness?
Material for the flapper valve shaft? Diameter?
Material for the flapper valve shaft bushings? Shaft to bushing clearance?
Other questions:
How to retain the flapper valve to the shaft?
Which direction to have the flapper valve close? The angle when closed?
Control mechanism? Method to close? Method to open?
I'm thinking CO2 cylinder to open and a simple return spring to close. Maybe control pressure could come from the wastegate system or simply be manifold pressure?
Quick Spool Turbine Housing Flapper Valve
Would this work in decreasing boost lag in non- vnt applications. The number he is claiming are interesting. At one point his EMP to Boost ratio was .85 to 1. Could on expect this kind of improvement on a Diesel motor?
The other item is an Automatic Exhaust Dump.
Quote:I bought a used throttle body off of a 4.6L Ford Crown Victoria. Removed the excess material that isn't needed like the TPS and also shortened the opening for ground clearance. I then fabricated a flange to weld to the exhaust system and to provide a place to mount the throttle body. I fabricated a bracket to attach a stock Turbo Buick wastegate actuator so it would open the throttle body as boost rises. After completed and installed, I ran a boost pressure line up to the intake so it would get a boost signal so it would open while under WOT. It's really a simple idea that works. Back pressure in my exhaust dropped to near zero from 3psi....not a whole lot since I'm running a 3" system but with a more restrictive exhaust system it would work even better.
It's quiet until you nail the throttle and best of all...it's totally automatic.
Automatic Exhaust Dump
A junkyard version of the way to expensive automatic dumps, plus this one is boost operated, not electrical.
01-08-2010, 03:11 PM
#2
FYI the exhaust cutout is illegal in California and other places. Like most of the stuff I do throughout the day
.
CID Vicious
01-08-2010, 03:11 PM #2Good stuff! I used to post on that board, those are some inspired geeks!
FYI the exhaust cutout is illegal in California and other places. Like most of the stuff I do throughout the day .
01-08-2010, 04:12 PM
#3
Will it help spool? Yes
Will it help efficiency? No.
Getting boost below backpressure just requires a moderately efficient turbo and high enough EGT's to drive the turbo. Even my little old T25 delivers more boost than backpressure if I keep the EGT's above 600C and the rpm's below 2000.
You can buy flanges with a flap to shut one side of a split housing. I can't remember where they were sold online or for what turbos though.
Will it help spool? Yes
Will it help efficiency? No.
Getting boost below backpressure just requires a moderately efficient turbo and high enough EGT's to drive the turbo. Even my little old T25 delivers more boost than backpressure if I keep the EGT's above 600C and the rpm's below 2000.
01-08-2010, 06:27 PM
#4
So the flap itself does not increase efficiency, installing the larger turbine does. The flapper just compensates for the added lag.
Something like this would be perfect for using an HX35 instead of an HY35. Spoolup would be pretty damn quick if you used it on an HX30! $500 is pretty pricey though, I could buy the other HE341Ve for cheaper than that! I don't see why such a simple device should cost more than $100-200 for a machinist to build.
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/Soun...Valve/3643
Here is one in use. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthr...p?t=533995
This post was last modified: 01-08-2010, 06:39 PM by ForcedInduction.
Attached Files
Image(s)ForcedInduction
01-08-2010, 06:27 PM
#4
The flapper in the split housing helps spoolup by reducing the A/R ratio. The larger turbine housing increases efficiency the same way a VNT does, more of the exhaust goes through the turbine instead of around it.
So the flap itself does not increase efficiency, installing the larger turbine does. The flapper just compensates for the added lag.
Something like this would be perfect for using an HX35 instead of an HY35. Spoolup would be pretty damn quick if you used it on an HX30! $500 is pretty pricey though, I could buy the other HE341Ve for cheaper than that! I don't see why such a simple device should cost more than $100-200 for a machinist to build.
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/Soun...Valve/3643
Here is one in use. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthr...p?t=533995
Attached Files
Image(s)
01-09-2010, 02:13 AM
#5
(01-08-2010, 03:11 PM)CID Vicious Good stuff! I used to post on that board, those are some inspired geeks!
Yes, and a few of them are gonna be at our track day tomorrow!
(What are the first two cars in my sig?)
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
(01-08-2010, 03:11 PM)CID Vicious Good stuff! I used to post on that board, those are some inspired geeks!
Yes, and a few of them are gonna be at our track day tomorrow!
(What are the first two cars in my sig?)
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
01-09-2010, 04:35 AM
#6
(01-08-2010, 06:27 PM)ForcedInduction I don't see why such a simple device should cost more than $100-200 for a machinist to build.
Well, duh. That bitchin' billet bracket obviously adds 200hp, so for the extra 400 dollars they charge, it's a pretty sweet deal!
CID Vicious
01-09-2010, 04:35 AM #6(01-08-2010, 06:27 PM)ForcedInduction I don't see why such a simple device should cost more than $100-200 for a machinist to build.
Well, duh. That bitchin' billet bracket obviously adds 200hp, so for the extra 400 dollars they charge, it's a pretty sweet deal!
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