6-71 blower
6-71 blower
Anyway, after speaking extensively with a friend who is quite knowledgeable on the subject of roots blowers, he and I seem to think this could be a strange, yet good option. Yes, there will be parasitic drag, but a turbo can also place a load on the engine, right? Some quick calculations indicate that the unit would flow a lot of air (forgetting the numbers right now, will have to look up and repost) at 30+ lbs of boost.
Intake would have to be fabricated, which sounds like a pain, but is totally doable. Could still be intercooled. Shouldn't have any deflection problems, as in some racing applications, since the rotors wouldn't be spinning more than 10% over engine speed. Probably forgetting some other points since I'm getting tired.
Am I nuts?
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
I tend to like power very low in the rpm band (my truck driving background showing through). I also dislike lag, but clearly a small turbo won't cut it here. Yes a VNT could be setup to spool quite fast, but might still lack low rpm grunt. Hmm, guess I said the same thing three times.
Anyway, after speaking extensively with a friend who is quite knowledgeable on the subject of roots blowers, he and I seem to think this could be a strange, yet good option. Yes, there will be parasitic drag, but a turbo can also place a load on the engine, right? Some quick calculations indicate that the unit would flow a lot of air (forgetting the numbers right now, will have to look up and repost) at 30+ lbs of boost.
Intake would have to be fabricated, which sounds like a pain, but is totally doable. Could still be intercooled. Shouldn't have any deflection problems, as in some racing applications, since the rotors wouldn't be spinning more than 10% over engine speed. Probably forgetting some other points since I'm getting tired.
Am I nuts?
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
My two cents...
'Jurgen' - 1982 300sd cream paint with palimino MB tex interior. Now running with new cooling system
.......discovered oil cooler has pinhole @#$%@
Nitrile gloves back on......'Otto' - 1985 300sd anthracite? grey/silver? with grey leather interior. (heated front seats!!!!
) Euro headlightsMods are in the works...
Telecommbrkr
05-28-2008, 12:57 AM #2For all the work involved, I think you might have something that would make you smile (the same as with the 6-71) if you were to build a compound turbo set-up. Small VNT for getting supposedly up to 2psi @ idle, plus anything the size of the OEM turbo or a little better for all the boost you could want throughout the powerband.
My two cents...
'Jurgen' - 1982 300sd cream paint with palimino MB tex interior. Now running with new cooling system
.......discovered oil cooler has pinhole @#$%@ Nitrile gloves back on......'Otto' - 1985 300sd anthracite? grey/silver? with grey leather interior. (heated front seats!!!!
) Euro headlightsMods are in the works...
Telecommbrkr Small VNT for getting supposedly up to 2psi @ idle
A VNT won't make any significant boost at idle. Mine makes only 0.25psi and I had to use an electronic sensor just to measure that low.
A roots blower can make 30psi but it will be very inefficient at high pressure. Roots is for moving lots of air at low pressure, the higher the pressure the harder the pressure wave will crash back into the incoming unpressurized air and heat it up. Thats their major downside, they don't actually compress the air.
On a gentle acceleration (about 35% throttle) my VNT can make 10psi before I even get across the intersection. There is no lack of low end grunt at all.
ForcedInduction
05-28-2008, 07:04 AM
#4
Telecommbrkr Small VNT for getting supposedly up to 2psi @ idle
A VNT won't make any significant boost at idle. Mine makes only 0.25psi and I had to use an electronic sensor just to measure that low.
A roots blower can make 30psi but it will be very inefficient at high pressure. Roots is for moving lots of air at low pressure, the higher the pressure the harder the pressure wave will crash back into the incoming unpressurized air and heat it up. Thats their major downside, they don't actually compress the air.
On a gentle acceleration (about 35% throttle) my VNT can make 10psi before I even get across the intersection. There is no lack of low end grunt at all.
A blower was used on the CD that ran in the 24hrs of LeMons. Car didnt make it the whole way.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Anyone been to the MBZ museum and seen the Roots blowers they were using back in the 30s?
A blower was used on the CD that ran in the 24hrs of LeMons. Car didnt make it the whole way.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
winmutt Car didnt make it the whole way.
I think they said they didn't even know (or measure) how much boost it was making, just that it ran well without much smoke.
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ForcedInduction
05-30-2008, 04:32 PM
#6
winmutt Car didnt make it the whole way.
I think they said they didn't even know (or measure) how much boost it was making, just that it ran well without much smoke.
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Quote:A roots blower can make 30psi but it will be very inefficient at high pressure. Roots is for moving lots of air at low pressure, the higher the pressure the harder the pressure wave will crash back into the incoming unpressurized air and heat it up. Thats their major downside, they don't actually compress the air.
Forced, I would appreciate if you would further prove this point. Based on what I currently know about positive displacement superchargers, I disagree, but perhaps I am wrong. See the following photo:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Rotary_piston_pump.svg">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_pump.svg</a><!-- m -->
(Yes its from wiki, but it shows the concept well)
As the photo shows, the pressurized and non-pressurized air volumes do not physically touch. This leads me to believe there would be no interference between volumes and no pressure "waves" at all.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
Engine swap perhaps? The car shouldn't make any difference though. Responses so far seem to indicate slight opposition to the positive displacement supercharger idea, or is that just uncertainty?
Quote:A roots blower can make 30psi but it will be very inefficient at high pressure. Roots is for moving lots of air at low pressure, the higher the pressure the harder the pressure wave will crash back into the incoming unpressurized air and heat it up. Thats their major downside, they don't actually compress the air.
Forced, I would appreciate if you would further prove this point. Based on what I currently know about positive displacement superchargers, I disagree, but perhaps I am wrong. See the following photo:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Rotary_piston_pump.svg">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_pump.svg</a><!-- m -->
(Yes its from wiki, but it shows the concept well)
As the photo shows, the pressurized and non-pressurized air volumes do not physically touch. This leads me to believe there would be no interference between volumes and no pressure "waves" at all.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
tantank79 As the photo shows, the pressurized and non-pressurized air volumes do not physically touch. This leads me to believe there would be no interference between volumes and no pressure "waves" at all.
Thay why there would be. Since the blower does not precompress the air like the Lysholm screw and scroll superchargers, the uncompressed air is simply being moved from point A to point B. When the uncompressed air being moved meets the compressed air in the outlet there is a short reversion as the pressures equalize.
Here is a general compression map for a roots blower.
![[Image: Roots_Supercharger_efficiency_map.jpg]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Roots_Supercharger_efficiency_map.jpg)
Notice how efficiency rapidly drops off as speed and/or pressure go up. By the time its even at 20psi its already below 50% efficiency. Even a T3-45 is still around 60-65% in that pressure/airflow range although its at its RPM limit.
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ForcedInduction
06-03-2008, 11:22 AM
#9
tantank79 As the photo shows, the pressurized and non-pressurized air volumes do not physically touch. This leads me to believe there would be no interference between volumes and no pressure "waves" at all.
Thay why there would be. Since the blower does not precompress the air like the Lysholm screw and scroll superchargers, the uncompressed air is simply being moved from point A to point B. When the uncompressed air being moved meets the compressed air in the outlet there is a short reversion as the pressures equalize.
Here is a general compression map for a roots blower.
Notice how efficiency rapidly drops off as speed and/or pressure go up. By the time its even at 20psi its already below 50% efficiency. Even a T3-45 is still around 60-65% in that pressure/airflow range although its at its RPM limit.
[attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->Picture 2.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment]
--- The problem is when you try to have it be "efficient" across 8,000 rpm... It's not gonna happen, however, the same is exactly true with ANY forced induction set up. You can match high volume with a big turbo at the expense of lag. You can have quick spooling at the expense of top end volume restriction. You can have the best of both worlds with 2 mediums at the expense of a few lbs? The bottom line is that it will work fine, reversion is not an issue & it very well may be a unique, pleasing alternative to turbos...
***I cannot imagine the reversion being significant at all. The reversion (as stated above) is dramatically worse in turbo applications as it is not positive displacement...
Hope that helps...
***This chart is a good example, however, keep in mind that each graph is specific to each supercharger & additionally to each application... It will vary dramatically depending on several factors: Blower cid, engine cid, rpm, rotor rpm, inlet air temp, intercooling, and whether fuel is introduced before or after the blower (or water injection)... Like I said above(?), if you choose the right supercharger it is not an issue.
--- The problem is when you try to have it be "efficient" across 8,000 rpm... It's not gonna happen, however, the same is exactly true with ANY forced induction set up. You can match high volume with a big turbo at the expense of lag. You can have quick spooling at the expense of top end volume restriction. You can have the best of both worlds with 2 mediums at the expense of a few lbs? The bottom line is that it will work fine, reversion is not an issue & it very well may be a unique, pleasing alternative to turbos...
***I cannot imagine the reversion being significant at all. The reversion (as stated above) is dramatically worse in turbo applications as it is not positive displacement...
Hope that helps...
slehrbass --- The problem is when you try to have it be "efficient" across 8,000 rpm... It's not gonna happen, however, the same is exactly true with ANY forced induction set up. You can match high volume with a big turbo at the expense of lag. You can have quick spooling at the expense of top end volume restriction. You can have the best of both worlds with 2 mediums at the expense of a few lbs? The bottom line is that it will work fine, reversion is not an issue & it very well may be a unique, pleasing alternative to turbos...I do not believe VGT/VNT will fall into this category.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
slehrbass --- The problem is when you try to have it be "efficient" across 8,000 rpm... It's not gonna happen, however, the same is exactly true with ANY forced induction set up. You can match high volume with a big turbo at the expense of lag. You can have quick spooling at the expense of top end volume restriction. You can have the best of both worlds with 2 mediums at the expense of a few lbs? The bottom line is that it will work fine, reversion is not an issue & it very well may be a unique, pleasing alternative to turbos...I do not believe VGT/VNT will fall into this category.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
slehrbass Yeah, you are probably correct... good point.I have always been intrigued by blowers on OM617 but have yet to hear anyone have anything good to say. There is a 115 that I think is still running.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
slehrbass Yeah, you are probably correct... good point.I have always been intrigued by blowers on OM617 but have yet to hear anyone have anything good to say. There is a 115 that I think is still running.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Quote:Yeah, you are probably correct... good point.Right, the GT20/22/23 series of VNT turbos will flow better than the stock T3-45 but spool like a small T2 turbo.
Quote:I have always been intrigued by blowers on OM617 but have yet to hear anyone have anything good to say. There is a 115 that I think is still running.I think part of the problem is the parasitic losses of always having to drive the rotors, even without a load. The VNT turbo can be switched off/open to the point it has only slightly more flow resistance than the exhaust system. The blower still has those ~4lb rotors to spin.
I think the answer would be an electromagnetic clutch to completely disengage the blower when not needed. This is what Mercedes did with their supercharger on the 230 Kompressor models. Retrofitting one off a heavy duty A/C compressor might work.
ForcedInduction
06-04-2008, 09:01 AM
#14
Quote:Yeah, you are probably correct... good point.Right, the GT20/22/23 series of VNT turbos will flow better than the stock T3-45 but spool like a small T2 turbo.
Quote:I have always been intrigued by blowers on OM617 but have yet to hear anyone have anything good to say. There is a 115 that I think is still running.I think part of the problem is the parasitic losses of always having to drive the rotors, even without a load. The VNT turbo can be switched off/open to the point it has only slightly more flow resistance than the exhaust system. The blower still has those ~4lb rotors to spin.
I think the answer would be an electromagnetic clutch to completely disengage the blower when not needed. This is what Mercedes did with their supercharger on the 230 Kompressor models. Retrofitting one off a heavy duty A/C compressor might work.
Forced - The rotors only consume power when changing rpm. For example, if you are cruising at 2500 rpm, the blower will not consume any power whatsoever. Those 4 lb + or - rotors are spun completely off of vacuum. Pat Ganahl did research on this, and wrote about it in "street Supercharging" [SA Design]. There are exceptions, (better and worse) but that is the general rule. So - only when accelerating /decelerating... But again, the gain is significantly more than the loss. Since turbos scavange wasted energy, they tend to make higher peak power (due to higher efficiency), but less power across the entire rpm range (due to spool time) - This is a GENERAL rule not speaking to variable turbos.
*** I am very curious about the effect of heat in compound turbo-set ups. And also, why it seems like most people running compound set ups use one variable and one regular turbo.
You know, I am not sure, I would have to view the figures but I would still think to make massive power you would need 2 medium variable turbos... Since it is only a 5 cylinder it would have to be a compound set up... Hopefully there is a size with a range small enough to spool quickly and flows enough air at top end to provide high levels of boost/volume.
Forced - The rotors only consume power when changing rpm. For example, if you are cruising at 2500 rpm, the blower will not consume any power whatsoever. Those 4 lb + or - rotors are spun completely off of vacuum. Pat Ganahl did research on this, and wrote about it in "street Supercharging" [SA Design]. There are exceptions, (better and worse) but that is the general rule. So - only when accelerating /decelerating... But again, the gain is significantly more than the loss. Since turbos scavange wasted energy, they tend to make higher peak power (due to higher efficiency), but less power across the entire rpm range (due to spool time) - This is a GENERAL rule not speaking to variable turbos.
*** I am very curious about the effect of heat in compound turbo-set ups. And also, why it seems like most people running compound set ups use one variable and one regular turbo.
.. that would be like crusing at 2500 with 0lbs boost, which is probably fine, until you come to a hill. With a turbo, more fuel into the engine = more exhaust out = turbo spool. With SC more fuel into engine+ same rpm due to load = smoke and high EGTs. You would have to gear the supercharger so its always making boost for it to be of any use, unless it was only for low end and you had a turbo as well.
GREASY_BEAST
06-16-2008, 04:43 PM #16at anything more than a couple pounds boost SCs make a ton of heat, don't they? And if you are cruising at 2500rpm and your supercharger isn't providing a parasitic loss, it means its not making enough boost .. that would be like crusing at 2500 with 0lbs boost, which is probably fine, until you come to a hill. With a turbo, more fuel into the engine = more exhaust out = turbo spool. With SC more fuel into engine+ same rpm due to load = smoke and high EGTs. You would have to gear the supercharger so its always making boost for it to be of any use, unless it was only for low end and you had a turbo as well.
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Section106
08-28-2008, 06:19 PM #17What about the Antonov two speed supercharger? I'm interested in what y'all have to say about this. To me it looks promising.
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Parasitic crank power draw of a supercharger and lag of a turbocharger.
ForcedInduction
08-29-2008, 04:26 AM
#18
Centrifugal supercharger = junk.
Parasitic crank power draw of a supercharger and lag of a turbocharger.
edited to add: With these manual engines why not SC them as it's much less complicated, you get rid of the EGT issues, and there are no control issues like with the new VNT and VGT tech?
Section106
09-06-2008, 12:35 PM #19Why do the Finns use both a SC and a turbo? Wouldn't forced induction in excess of volumetric efficiency be overkill? Or does it take both to reach VE over the rpm range of the engine?
edited to add: With these manual engines why not SC them as it's much less complicated, you get rid of the EGT issues, and there are no control issues like with the new VNT and VGT tech?
Section106 Why do the Finns use both a SC and a turbo? Wouldn't forced induction in excess of volumetric efficiency be overkill? Or does it take both to reach VE over the rpm range of the engine?That car is no longer running.....
edited to add: With these manual engines why not SC them as it's much less complicated, you get rid of the EGT issues, and there are no control issues like with the new VNT and VGT tech?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Section106 Why do the Finns use both a SC and a turbo? Wouldn't forced induction in excess of volumetric efficiency be overkill? Or does it take both to reach VE over the rpm range of the engine?That car is no longer running.....
edited to add: With these manual engines why not SC them as it's much less complicated, you get rid of the EGT issues, and there are no control issues like with the new VNT and VGT tech?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
-Rich aka Greaseking
Greaseking
09-09-2008, 08:08 PM #22You Guys will all be happy to know that the blue 115 coupe that we ran in the LeMons race is in fact still alive and well. What can I say, we tried to kill it. I was most impressed with the 240 4 spd taking a shit pounding and never giving us a single problem. As for the blower, it did well, we didn't have a boost gauge so can't say for sure. It did however run quite well, cool and didn't smoke a bit. All I did for that race was adjust the ALDA and the full load. Could the car have used more fuel? I believe it could have, the lack of smoke would tend to indicate that it sure wasn't overfueled. In any case the other car was equipped with a boost gauge, deactivated wastegate and a crazy water/meth system. They reported boost levels as high as 25 PSI and the engine still purrs like a kitten, and that's after 2 races. As far as comparison is concerned, our car could easily keep up with their car and we had taller gears out back. Now were these cars rocket ships? Not in anyway, but they were much quicker and faster than stock turbo 617's. We race again in December, for this round the car will get a t3/t4 blowing through the huffer as well as water/meth and shorter gears. I will install a boost gauge and let you all know what went down. In closing, there are not a lot of engines let alone diesels that can be abused the way these can. Maybe we can grenade her this time.
-Rich aka Greaseking
Greaseking You Guys will all be happy to know that the blue 115 coupe that we ran in the LeMons race is in fact still alive and well. What can I say, we tried to kill it. I was most impressed with the 240 4 spd taking a shit pounding and never giving us a single problem. As for the blower, it did well, we didn't have a boost gauge so can't say for sure. It did however run quite well, cool and didn't smoke a bit. All I did for that race was adjust the ALDA and the full load. Could the car have used more fuel? I believe it could have, the lack of smoke would tend to indicate that it sure wasn't overfueled. In any case the other car was equipped with a boost gauge, deactivated wastegate and a crazy water/meth system. They reported boost levels as high as 25 PSI and the engine still purrs like a kitten, and that's after 2 races. As far as comparison is concerned, our car could easily keep up with their car and we had taller gears out back. Now were these cars rocket ships? Not in anyway, but they were much quicker and faster than stock turbo 617's. We race again in December, for this round the car will get a t3/t4 blowing through the huffer as well as water/meth and shorter gears. I will install a boost gauge and let you all know what went down. In closing, there are not a lot of engines let alone diesels that can be abused the way these can. Maybe we can grenade her this time.Frickin awsome to hear from you. Ours limped out with 30minutes to go in 25th place. Have you plugged an EGT to it yet? Which other car? Ours was not doing so well on day2 of the race from what the guys said. They came home and it started right up so who knows? That engine already had 330k, 3 busted prechambers and a bad knocking sound. What is the next race you guys are looking at?
-Rich aka Greaseking
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Greaseking You Guys will all be happy to know that the blue 115 coupe that we ran in the LeMons race is in fact still alive and well. What can I say, we tried to kill it. I was most impressed with the 240 4 spd taking a shit pounding and never giving us a single problem. As for the blower, it did well, we didn't have a boost gauge so can't say for sure. It did however run quite well, cool and didn't smoke a bit. All I did for that race was adjust the ALDA and the full load. Could the car have used more fuel? I believe it could have, the lack of smoke would tend to indicate that it sure wasn't overfueled. In any case the other car was equipped with a boost gauge, deactivated wastegate and a crazy water/meth system. They reported boost levels as high as 25 PSI and the engine still purrs like a kitten, and that's after 2 races. As far as comparison is concerned, our car could easily keep up with their car and we had taller gears out back. Now were these cars rocket ships? Not in anyway, but they were much quicker and faster than stock turbo 617's. We race again in December, for this round the car will get a t3/t4 blowing through the huffer as well as water/meth and shorter gears. I will install a boost gauge and let you all know what went down. In closing, there are not a lot of engines let alone diesels that can be abused the way these can. Maybe we can grenade her this time.Frickin awsome to hear from you. Ours limped out with 30minutes to go in 25th place. Have you plugged an EGT to it yet? Which other car? Ours was not doing so well on day2 of the race from what the guys said. They came home and it started right up so who knows? That engine already had 330k, 3 busted prechambers and a bad knocking sound. What is the next race you guys are looking at?
-Rich aka Greaseking
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
-Rich AKA Greaseking
Too many cars to list
Greaseking
09-10-2008, 08:42 PM #24We hope to make the cut for Decembers race at Thunderhill which is a much more open road course not unlike the one your team raced on, which is a relief because Altamount has way to much contact and our car took a pounding. If I add more gauges (we already have temp and oil press,) the cockpit will have too much bling and we might get dinged, so I might put them in to test and take them out for the race. Either way I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. If this car goes well this run the next plan for me is a street car along the same lines. I have an 87 OM602 and a 5 speed I'm gonna drop into a 123 coupe using some of my old small block chevy racing tricks. It'll have a blower and a turbo as well, along with a humongous front mounted air to air IC. The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time. So far so good.
-Rich AKA Greaseking
Too many cars to list
Greaseking The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time.
A Diesel can haul ass on cat pee, doing it with VO is nothing special.
ForcedInduction
09-11-2008, 04:40 AM
#25
Greaseking The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time.
A Diesel can haul ass on cat pee, doing it with VO is nothing special.
Greaseking The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time.
ForcedInduction A Diesel can haul ass on cat pee, doing it with VO is nothing special.
Maybe not to a big strong guy like you forced, but there are a lot of skeptics out there who don't believe it's even possible to use a fuel that doesn't come from the gas pump. There are also a ton of VO people out there not quite doing it right and by doing so have sentenced their car to an early death. So I would expect you to not be so impressed, no matter. By the way if you like I will start saving all the cat pee I can get my hands on and then maybe we can test your results(using your rig of course) and then post the findings! :lol:
Greaseking
09-11-2008, 10:38 AM #26Greaseking The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time.
ForcedInduction A Diesel can haul ass on cat pee, doing it with VO is nothing special.
Maybe not to a big strong guy like you forced, but there are a lot of skeptics out there who don't believe it's even possible to use a fuel that doesn't come from the gas pump. There are also a ton of VO people out there not quite doing it right and by doing so have sentenced their car to an early death. So I would expect you to not be so impressed, no matter. By the way if you like I will start saving all the cat pee I can get my hands on and then maybe we can test your results(using your rig of course) and then post the findings! :lol:
ForcedInduction I think the answer would be an electromagnetic clutch to completely disengage the blower when not needed. This is what Mercedes did with their supercharger on the 230 Kompressor models. Retrofitting one off a heavy duty A/C compressor might work.
Ogura Clutch has a roots type blower that can be fitted with an electromagnetic clutch. The question is how to control it?
http://www.ogura-clutch.com/products.htm...61fe6857da
Section106
11-19-2008, 07:06 PM #27ForcedInduction I think the answer would be an electromagnetic clutch to completely disengage the blower when not needed. This is what Mercedes did with their supercharger on the 230 Kompressor models. Retrofitting one off a heavy duty A/C compressor might work.
Ogura Clutch has a roots type blower that can be fitted with an electromagnetic clutch. The question is how to control it?
http://www.ogura-clutch.com/products.htm...61fe6857da
A manual switch and/or a throttle switch are what I would use.
ForcedInduction
11-20-2008, 06:36 AM
#28
A 1.8 pressure ratio is only 11psi at sea level. The TX10 would be minimum needed to keep up with a 617's airflow.
A manual switch and/or a throttle switch are what I would use.
GreasekingGreaseking The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time.
ForcedInduction A Diesel can haul ass on cat pee, doing it with VO is nothing special.
Maybe not to a big strong guy like you forced, but there are a lot of skeptics out there who don't believe it's even possible to use a fuel that doesn't come from the gas pump. There are also a ton of VO people out there not quite doing it right and by doing so have sentenced their car to an early death. So I would expect you to not be so impressed, no matter. By the way if you like I will start saving all the cat pee I can get my hands on and then maybe we can test your results(using your rig of course) and then post the findings! :lol:
I like this guy. Keep us updated with all of your new modifications. (and the results) This is hilarious. Time for more fuel!!! :twisted:
Lincolnlock
11-21-2008, 03:05 PM #29GreasekingGreaseking The whole purpose of the race car was always to prove the concept that you can haul ass and burn VO at the same time.
ForcedInduction A Diesel can haul ass on cat pee, doing it with VO is nothing special.
Maybe not to a big strong guy like you forced, but there are a lot of skeptics out there who don't believe it's even possible to use a fuel that doesn't come from the gas pump. There are also a ton of VO people out there not quite doing it right and by doing so have sentenced their car to an early death. So I would expect you to not be so impressed, no matter. By the way if you like I will start saving all the cat pee I can get my hands on and then maybe we can test your results(using your rig of course) and then post the findings! :lol:
I like this guy. Keep us updated with all of your new modifications. (and the results) This is hilarious. Time for more fuel!!! :twisted:
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