OM617 Turbo in 96' Chevy Sububrban?
OM617 Turbo in 96' Chevy Sububrban?
My first post on this forum. I'm entertaining the ideal of a conversion of a OM617 turbo motor into a 1996 Suburban. I like the simplicity of the OM617 like any other mechanical diesel and know the dependability of the motor to be great hands down.
However, the issue is the size of the motor in a Suburban.
The Suburban weighs in at 5,600 lbs and has 3.73 gears. Can the motor be tuned to put out more power? Because it's not the not the weight of the Suburban I'm concerned with but I wish to tow 5000-6000lbs on top of the Suburban's weight. So I wish to be more confident of going ahead with this swap if the the motor can tow a GCVW of 13,000 lbs. It's asking alot but the MB did put out great diesels.
Here is the Burb'
![[Image: Suburban004.jpg]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/Suburban004.jpg)
Here is a 1993 Burb' I did a Cummins 4BT swap but sold it off 2 years ago.
![[Image: 4btSuburban1.jpg]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban1.jpg)
![[Image: 4btSuburban11.jpg]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban11.jpg)
![[Image: 4btSuburban12.jpg]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban12.jpg)
![[Image: 4btSuburban13.jpg]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban13.jpg)
![[Image: 4btSuburban14.jpg]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban14.jpg)
Here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV903Ai7Uhg
Now I'm entertaining the ideal of an OM617 diesel.
Hello all,
My first post on this forum. I'm entertaining the ideal of a conversion of a OM617 turbo motor into a 1996 Suburban. I like the simplicity of the OM617 like any other mechanical diesel and know the dependability of the motor to be great hands down.
However, the issue is the size of the motor in a Suburban.
The Suburban weighs in at 5,600 lbs and has 3.73 gears. Can the motor be tuned to put out more power? Because it's not the not the weight of the Suburban I'm concerned with but I wish to tow 5000-6000lbs on top of the Suburban's weight. So I wish to be more confident of going ahead with this swap if the the motor can tow a GCVW of 13,000 lbs. It's asking alot but the MB did put out great diesels.
Here is the Burb'
Here is a 1993 Burb' I did a Cummins 4BT swap but sold it off 2 years ago.
Here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV903Ai7Uhg
Now I'm entertaining the ideal of an OM617 diesel.
The stock OM617.95x can probably push your 'burban around fine. But not fast. You have a gear that will certainly help it. Here some reading on low hp Mercedes diesels.
http://superturbodiesel.com/std/engine-s...l#pid13157
You can potentially get more power out of it. Do some searches here and you'll find threads about getting more power out it.
The following are some good reads...
Getting out more fuel from the injection pump.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/ip-f...t-189.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/cyli...-1356.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/m75-...t-705.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/inte...t-691.html
Turbos and Superchargers.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/vnt-...t-235.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/vnt-...t-188.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/new-...t-858.html
I'm sure others will chime in and help you out.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
05-17-2010, 05:18 PM #2Welcome to the board and nice job with the 4BT swap.
The stock OM617.95x can probably push your 'burban around fine. But not fast. You have a gear that will certainly help it. Here some reading on low hp Mercedes diesels.
http://superturbodiesel.com/std/engine-s...l#pid13157
You can potentially get more power out of it. Do some searches here and you'll find threads about getting more power out it.
The following are some good reads...
Getting out more fuel from the injection pump.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/ip-f...t-189.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/cyli...-1356.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/m75-...t-705.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/inte...t-691.html
Turbos and Superchargers.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/vnt-...t-235.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/vnt-...t-188.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/new-...t-858.html
I'm sure others will chime in and help you out.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
ForcedInduction
05-17-2010, 05:52 PM
#3
The OM617 is much too small to move 13,000lbs reliably unless you like driving 40mph with your foot to the floor. Hit a hill and it will end up crawling.
For the sake of needing pulling power I probably won't do the swap. However, I would like to use the motor in something because it's sitting in a 300D over in the 'junk" yard. I can get the motor for $150 bucks and just needs injectors.
We'll see and thanks again for the prompt responses.
Chase
Thanks for the info guys.
For the sake of needing pulling power I probably won't do the swap. However, I would like to use the motor in something because it's sitting in a 300D over in the 'junk" yard. I can get the motor for $150 bucks and just needs injectors.
We'll see and thanks again for the prompt responses.
Chase
(05-18-2010, 11:11 AM)b1jetmech Thanks for the info guys.
For the sake of needing pulling power I probably won't do the swap. However, I would like to use the motor in something because it's sitting in a 300D over in the 'junk" yard. I can get the motor for $150 bucks and just needs injectors.
We'll see and thanks again for the prompt responses.
Chase
I have a 617A in a 5500 lb truck and I wouldn't consider towing a trailer on a highway. Under normal conditions, it takes me about 30 seconds to go from 0 - 60 mph. But the truck feels peppy between 0 and 40 mph and is a blast off road.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
(05-18-2010, 11:11 AM)b1jetmech Thanks for the info guys.
For the sake of needing pulling power I probably won't do the swap. However, I would like to use the motor in something because it's sitting in a 300D over in the 'junk" yard. I can get the motor for $150 bucks and just needs injectors.
We'll see and thanks again for the prompt responses.
Chase
I have a 617A in a 5500 lb truck and I wouldn't consider towing a trailer on a highway. Under normal conditions, it takes me about 30 seconds to go from 0 - 60 mph. But the truck feels peppy between 0 and 40 mph and is a blast off road.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
Deliveryvalve, I viewed the links you posted, is there a proven combo to get an OM617 turbo to the torque levels of a newer MB diesel? If I'm not mistaken, the IP on the OM 617 turbo is the limiting factor in allowing more fuel to the engine. Can the pump be turned up?
I did test drive an 05' Sprinter to try out the "power" of the engine. I was overly impressed! It even had good passing power on the highway and the engine was rated at 270 lbs of torque. This is what got me interested in the OM617 turbo because the sprinter weighs almost the same as the Suburban.
Deliveryvalve, I viewed the links you posted, is there a proven combo to get an OM617 turbo to the torque levels of a newer MB diesel? If I'm not mistaken, the IP on the OM 617 turbo is the limiting factor in allowing more fuel to the engine. Can the pump be turned up?
(05-18-2010, 11:17 AM)b1jetmech I did test drive an 05' Sprinter to try out the "power" of the engine. I was overly impressed! It even had good passing power on the highway and the engine was rated at 270 lbs of torque. This is what got me interested in the OM617 turbo because the sprinter weighs almost the same as the Suburban.
Deliveryvalve, I viewed the links you posted, is there a proven combo to get an OM617 turbo to the torque levels of a newer MB diesel? If I'm not mistaken, the IP on the OM 617 turbo is the limiting factor in allowing more fuel to the engine. Can the pump be turned up?
The '05 Sprinter has an OM612 rated at 156 hp and 240 lb-ft of torque. It is a different engine then the OM617.95x which is rated at 123 hp and 181 lb-ft of torque. ForcedInduction is right about the towing part. The 617 is too weak for that, but if you weren't towing you can probably get by.
There really is no proven combo (yet) to make more power. We do know more fuel out from the IP and more efficient induction is needed. It's all custom work, which means it can be expensive, and testing from folks here or other places will continue to provide more info.
You will need to do more searches and read as much as you can to grasp it all.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
05-18-2010, 12:34 PM #7(05-18-2010, 11:17 AM)b1jetmech I did test drive an 05' Sprinter to try out the "power" of the engine. I was overly impressed! It even had good passing power on the highway and the engine was rated at 270 lbs of torque. This is what got me interested in the OM617 turbo because the sprinter weighs almost the same as the Suburban.
Deliveryvalve, I viewed the links you posted, is there a proven combo to get an OM617 turbo to the torque levels of a newer MB diesel? If I'm not mistaken, the IP on the OM 617 turbo is the limiting factor in allowing more fuel to the engine. Can the pump be turned up?
The '05 Sprinter has an OM612 rated at 156 hp and 240 lb-ft of torque. It is a different engine then the OM617.95x which is rated at 123 hp and 181 lb-ft of torque. ForcedInduction is right about the towing part. The 617 is too weak for that, but if you weren't towing you can probably get by.
There really is no proven combo (yet) to make more power. We do know more fuel out from the IP and more efficient induction is needed. It's all custom work, which means it can be expensive, and testing from folks here or other places will continue to provide more info.
You will need to do more searches and read as much as you can to grasp it all.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
The 4BT is a really good option, its a long stroke engine made for working hard. The OM617 is more about economy with reasonable power. It would be much better suited to something the size of an S-10. Personally, if I had the facilities and funds, I'd be making a street rail buggy out of one right now.
ForcedInduction
05-18-2010, 12:36 PM
#8
You would have to replace the pump. On a maxed out stock pump you'll still be short of a stock sprinter by 15hp and it won't keep cool for long at WOT because of the long injection duration.
The 4BT is a really good option, its a long stroke engine made for working hard. The OM617 is more about economy with reasonable power. It would be much better suited to something the size of an S-10. Personally, if I had the facilities and funds, I'd be making a street rail buggy out of one right now.
I love the ford powerplants, so I would put one of those in.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
why not just swap in another V8 engine platform, like the 6.2 or 6.5 chevy diesel? or if you are concerned about the bottom end and less than stellar reputation of those, a 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or a 7.3 powerstroke? Can you fit one of the 5.7 cummins in there? or only the 4bt?
I love the ford powerplants, so I would put one of those in.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(05-18-2010, 12:36 PM)ForcedInduction The 4BT is a really good option, its a long stroke engine made for working hard. The OM617 is more about economy with reasonable power. It would be much better suited to something the size of an S-10. Personally, if I had the facilities and funds, I'd be making a street rail buggy out of one right now.
I won't do another 4BT swap in an everyday driver. They vibrate WAY too much! At a stop my teeth would chatter from the vibrations and I watched the hood bounce up-and-down so I sold it off. I would put a 4BT in a toy to off road in. They have plenty of torque, in fact, it was about the same acceleration as the 350. A 5.9 would be better because they are naturally smooth being an inline 6 and the fuel mileage won't suffer much.
The Rail would be fun but stay with a V8!
(05-18-2010, 02:44 PM)dropnosky why not just swap in another V8 engine platform, like the 6.2 or 6.5 chevy diesel? or if you are concerned about the bottom end and less than stellar reputation of those, a 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or a 7.3 powerstroke? Can you fit one of the 5.7 cummins in there? or only the 4bt?
I love the ford powerplants, so I would put one of those in.
I like the 6.2 and 6.5 but for towing they didn't have oil cooled pistons until 97'. Then the block developed cracks where the new oil jets were placed from drilling. The ideal engine would be a 6500 optimizer made by AM General. AM General bought the 6.5 production from GM in 2000 and re-did the cast design making it what it should have been. However a 6,600 $$$ for a long block put's at the bottom of the list.
The 6.9 and 7.3 IDI engines are good just lack towing power with out a turbo. But the would be more of a pain then an OM617 swap because there is no trans adapter available like the OM617. I did own a 93 F350 Crew Cab 4x4 with a 7.3 and was impressed with the simplicity of the 7.3 but once I hooked a trailer up to it it felt like a 6.2 diesel.
My second option is a 5.9 and it will fit just have to scoot the trans back 3 inches. There are prefabbed motor mounts and accessories available to keep the stock GM accessories so logistics will be easy. I would go with a 1st gen dodge 5.9 because they were the lightest weighing at 880 lbs.
But I can't decide now
(05-18-2010, 12:36 PM)ForcedInduction The 4BT is a really good option, its a long stroke engine made for working hard. The OM617 is more about economy with reasonable power. It would be much better suited to something the size of an S-10. Personally, if I had the facilities and funds, I'd be making a street rail buggy out of one right now.
I won't do another 4BT swap in an everyday driver. They vibrate WAY too much! At a stop my teeth would chatter from the vibrations and I watched the hood bounce up-and-down so I sold it off. I would put a 4BT in a toy to off road in. They have plenty of torque, in fact, it was about the same acceleration as the 350. A 5.9 would be better because they are naturally smooth being an inline 6 and the fuel mileage won't suffer much.
The Rail would be fun but stay with a V8!
(05-18-2010, 02:44 PM)dropnosky why not just swap in another V8 engine platform, like the 6.2 or 6.5 chevy diesel? or if you are concerned about the bottom end and less than stellar reputation of those, a 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or a 7.3 powerstroke? Can you fit one of the 5.7 cummins in there? or only the 4bt?
I love the ford powerplants, so I would put one of those in.
I like the 6.2 and 6.5 but for towing they didn't have oil cooled pistons until 97'. Then the block developed cracks where the new oil jets were placed from drilling. The ideal engine would be a 6500 optimizer made by AM General. AM General bought the 6.5 production from GM in 2000 and re-did the cast design making it what it should have been. However a 6,600 $$$ for a long block put's at the bottom of the list.
The 6.9 and 7.3 IDI engines are good just lack towing power with out a turbo. But the would be more of a pain then an OM617 swap because there is no trans adapter available like the OM617. I did own a 93 F350 Crew Cab 4x4 with a 7.3 and was impressed with the simplicity of the 7.3 but once I hooked a trailer up to it it felt like a 6.2 diesel.
My second option is a 5.9 and it will fit just have to scoot the trans back 3 inches. There are prefabbed motor mounts and accessories available to keep the stock GM accessories so logistics will be easy. I would go with a 1st gen dodge 5.9 because they were the lightest weighing at 880 lbs.
But I can't decide now
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
07-17-2010, 10:53 PM #16It's available in 86-87 300d and 300sdl
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
ForcedInduction
07-18-2010, 06:22 AM
#17
A 603 would be better but it still wouldn't run as well as a 4BT with 13k lbs of load.
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