Tremec TKO Conversion - Skunkwerks 2.0
Tremec TKO Conversion - Skunkwerks 2.0
I have been working on adapting a Tremec TKO 500 transmission to my OMG617 Super Turbo Diesel. The trans will be upgraded to handle up to 750 lb/ft of torque and if I go with the TKO 600, it could be upgraded to handle 900 lb/ft. I have considered the T5, but it does not provide as many options as the TKO, though cost is very temping. The T5 can be upgraded to handle 500 lb/ft, but that costs as much as a TKO 500 with upgardes.
One of the challenges is adapting the trans to the motor - New motor plate with Ford/Tremec bell housing or a Mercedes bell housing with an adapter plate to Tremec; I chose the latter. I found a bell housing from an iron 4-speed and have an adapter plate in the works.
The next step is the flywheel, I have been going nucking futs looking for the solution - M110, 240D, 300D, G-wagen, Ford, or custom. M110 has a bigger clutch, but too light; 240D is available, but on the light side; 300D correct size and weight, but almost impossible to get; G-wagen has larger clutch, but I have not pursued as an option. Ford, size may be prohibitive due to bell housing; and Custom - cost is too much.
I called Mercedes dealer and both the 300D and G-wagen flywheels are still available new, $750.00 and $650.00 respectively. I do not want to spend that much if I can help it. I know the trans is going to cost, but if I can keep the rest down it will be more appealing.
Yesterday I scored and found a 300D flywheel! I was browsing ebay and found an M-pump with the description of a 300D with a 4-speed transmission. I emailed the wrecking yard to see if they had the flywheel and he said he did. Now I have search on one of these "parts" sites where wrecking yards email you and tell you they have the part, most have tried to sell me an automatic flex plate assembly for up to $350.00. I asked him the price and he quoted $125.00, I went down there and it was exactly what I have been searching for!!!
It has some rust, but nothing to be concerned about, it will clean up well and let me get some sleep at nght - one less part to search for.
To be continued....
YES!! Another thread for me to drool over! I'll be following this one as well as your supercharger progress!
"my OMG617 Super Turbo Diesel" Hahaha!
Are you going to be running the stock trans with the supercharger while you work on this project? I've been curious about that. If so, I'm also curious about how long it will last behind the amount of power your engine will be putting out!
Subscribed for the goodness to follow.
are you aware that it you search "EM9D" on google, your project is number 5 after a bunch of phones?
So am I correct in that flywheel is just taller in comparison to a 240 flywheel as the biggest difference? all the weight is in the extra thickness of the ring beyond the friction surface? What a score!
(06-30-2010, 08:18 PM)dropnosky are you aware that it you search "EM9D" on google, your project is number 5 after a bunch of phones?
So am I correct in that flywheel is just taller in comparison to a 240 flywheel as the biggest difference? all the weight is in the extra thickness of the ring beyond the friction surface? What a score!
(06-30-2010, 08:18 PM)dropnosky are you aware that it you search "EM9D" on google, your project is number 5 after a bunch of phones?
So am I correct in that flywheel is just taller in comparison to a 240 flywheel as the biggest difference? all the weight is in the extra thickness of the ring beyond the friction surface? What a score!
I finished drilling and tapping the holes on the stub shaft, FYI, the thread is M10x1,00. I checked the specs on the flywheel and they are right on the money, as I thought I think it was new or hardly used at all.
After a nice citric acid and water bath for about 4 hours, the rust came off without a fight.
I did some research on clutches and pressure plates and still nothing firm yet. I called CenterForce because they advertise that can build you a custom assembly, but I was told they are too busy to even consider.
More research until I come up with a winning combination.
I am considering selling the flywheel and then buying a G-wagen wheel, but that remains to be seen. BTW I weighed the flywheel and it weighs 36lbs. 9ozs.
Here are somes pics:
Nice and clean
So nice and pretty
Bolted to stub shaft
Stub Shaft
On the lathe checking for runout and trueness
That is either a big ass lathe or a small flywheel lol.
where are you in Cali Rudolf? Can I stop by to work on my getting closer to Super Turbo Diesel?
(07-02-2010, 09:32 AM)Captain America That is either a big ass lathe or a small flywheel lol.
where are you in Cali Rudolf? Can I stop by to work on my getting closer to Super Turbo Diesel?
(07-02-2010, 09:32 AM)Captain America That is either a big ass lathe or a small flywheel lol.
where are you in Cali Rudolf? Can I stop by to work on my getting closer to Super Turbo Diesel?
Man what I would do with some tools like that! I hate you... I used to have a pretty awesome shop to do all my work in... Did all the work on my GMC Sprint there before I picked up the Benz aka - tank
San Gabriel is on my way home from work in LA, well kinda haha.
That facility is at your work or home? What do ya do for work?
I'm guessing machinist?
That's where I'd put my money...
Or just some regular guy that happens to be good at machining like myself...
Hey Rudolf, I have a CNC machine that I have not used in months... I'd like to fire her up, you need anything?
(07-02-2010, 11:15 AM)Captain America That's where I'd put my money...
Or just some regular guy that happens to be good at machining like myself...
Hey Rudolf, I have a CNC machine that I have not used in months... I'd like to fire her up, you need anything?
(07-02-2010, 11:15 AM)Captain America That's where I'd put my money...
Or just some regular guy that happens to be good at machining like myself...
Hey Rudolf, I have a CNC machine that I have not used in months... I'd like to fire her up, you need anything?
I was on TV a couple times... Overhaulin' and American Hot rod.
And in all the Muscle car magazines... Hot rod, Popular Hot Rodding, Muscle Car, Drive!, Lowrider, Muscle Car Power, Street Machine, Super Chevy, and World of Rods.
Ok Rudolf, this is fun haha what show were you on?, you gotta give us a lil hint! Did it have to do with Skunkwerks?
(07-02-2010, 01:01 PM)Captain America I was on TV a couple times... Overhaulin' and American Hot rod.
And in all the Muscle car magazines... Hot rod, Popular Hot Rodding, Muscle Car, Drive!, Lowrider, Muscle Car Power, Street Machine, Super Chevy, and World of Rods.
Ok Rudolf, this is fun haha what show were you on?, you gotta give us a lil hint! Did it have to do with Skunkwerks?
(07-02-2010, 01:01 PM)Captain America I was on TV a couple times... Overhaulin' and American Hot rod.
And in all the Muscle car magazines... Hot rod, Popular Hot Rodding, Muscle Car, Drive!, Lowrider, Muscle Car Power, Street Machine, Super Chevy, and World of Rods.
Ok Rudolf, this is fun haha what show were you on?, you gotta give us a lil hint! Did it have to do with Skunkwerks?
What the hell is a SAG card?
Nice! I want to learn aluminum myself so I can weld up my own stuff but its kinda hard without a machine.... man, I loved monster garage, too bad they didn't pick ya... maybe you could do the aluminum welding for me since your close
Don't think they expected the mohawk lol
SAG = Screen Actors Guild
We can trade, your CNC works for aluminum welding...
Thats a Deal!
I have the clutch and pressure plate sorted out...and it does not require any machine work on the flywheel. I went to a place called Clutchnet.com - they happen to be only a few miles from home and talked to one of the guys there. He told me to buy a pressure plate, 240D/300D and he will modify it to a greater pressure holding capacity. They will also build my clutch to match excatly what I need for the proper fitment of the trans/clutch/pressure plate. This will save a lot of headaches and will only cost around $345.00 not including a new pressure plate provided by me, around $88.00 from partsgeek.com
This is not going to be a "cheap" venture, but hopefully it will inspire a few to do the same or similar!
I had just found partsgeek and ordered some parts Thursday morn and they arrived at my house Friday with ground shipping... cant beat that!
I would really like to come see your car someday....
(07-04-2010, 03:43 AM)Captain America I had just found partsgeek and ordered some parts Thursday morn and they arrived at my house Friday with ground shipping... cant beat that!
I would really like to come see your car someday....
(07-04-2010, 03:43 AM)Captain America I had just found partsgeek and ordered some parts Thursday morn and they arrived at my house Friday with ground shipping... cant beat that!
I would really like to come see your car someday....
Man, you don't need a machine to weld aluminum, just MG-400 sticks and an oxy-acetylene torch.. That's how I do all my aluminum welding, steel is usually coat hangers, RG-45, or RG-60 if it really needs it. Granted, I'm a "hobbyist" and no professional, but if you want to weld everything, get a torch set. You can get into a full setup for about $300, tanks and all. I just built an entire 3" exhaust system using oxy-acetylene only.
[\soapbox]
Rudolf, this is one HELL of a project. Best thread(s) ever.
(07-04-2010, 09:29 AM)Rudolf_Diesel(07-04-2010, 03:43 AM)Captain America I had just found partsgeek and ordered some parts Thursday morn and they arrived at my house Friday with ground shipping... cant beat that!
I would really like to come see your car someday....
Partsgeek is awesome because they drop ship from So. Cal and we get next day for ground!
As I get closer I will let you know and you can come by...
(07-04-2010, 10:43 AM)GREASY_BEAST Man, you don't need a machine to weld aluminum, just MG-400 sticks and an oxy-acetylene torch.. That's how I do all my aluminum welding, steel is usually coat hangers, RG-45, or RG-60 if it really needs it. Granted, I'm a "hobbyist" and no professional, but if you want to weld everything, get a torch set. You can get into a full setup for about $300, tanks and all. I just built an entire 3" exhaust system using oxy-acetylene only.
[\soapbox]
Rudolf, this is one HELL of a project. Best thread(s) ever.
(07-04-2010, 09:29 AM)Rudolf_Diesel(07-04-2010, 03:43 AM)Captain America I had just found partsgeek and ordered some parts Thursday morn and they arrived at my house Friday with ground shipping... cant beat that!
I would really like to come see your car someday....
Partsgeek is awesome because they drop ship from So. Cal and we get next day for ground!
As I get closer I will let you know and you can come by...
(07-04-2010, 10:43 AM)GREASY_BEAST Man, you don't need a machine to weld aluminum, just MG-400 sticks and an oxy-acetylene torch.. That's how I do all my aluminum welding, steel is usually coat hangers, RG-45, or RG-60 if it really needs it. Granted, I'm a "hobbyist" and no professional, but if you want to weld everything, get a torch set. You can get into a full setup for about $300, tanks and all. I just built an entire 3" exhaust system using oxy-acetylene only.
[\soapbox]
Rudolf, this is one HELL of a project. Best thread(s) ever.
I have doing some research and have assembled a 30 page report on the project, I have been crunching some numbers - dollars and gear ratios.
I have the opportunity to get a good deal, thanks to Captain America, on a Tremec TKO600. The only caveat is that the OD gear is .64, but this will be dealt with by changing the ring and pinion. My target is a 3.92 from a 200D/220D and my second choice is a 3.69 from a 240D.
I made a few calls and was quoted $250.00 for a 3.92, but being the cheap bastard I am, I went to a few of the local wrecking yards and found a 240D and got a 3.69.
Now I know what you are saying, "that gear ratio is way too low and your going to max out the RPMs real quick..."
The gear ratios for the Tremec are 1-2.87, 2-1.89, 3-1.28, 4-1.00, 5-.64 with these ratios and a 3.69 R&P, the car will turn 2005 RPM @ 65 mph, 2160 RPM @ 70, 2314 RPM @ 75 (my fwy cruising speed), 2468 RPM @ 80, 2623 RPM @ 85, 2777 RPM @ 90, 2931 RPM @ 95...
I want to get the 3.92, but for now I will try the 3.69 and see how it goes. With the 3.69 and in 5th gear the motor will be running in the range that has the motor at its' most efficient use of fuel...if I read the SAE report correctly.
Hey Rudolf, Lemme know when you are ready to take those measurements, I'll go grab the trans, and we'll meet up.
(07-22-2010, 11:36 PM)Captain America Hey Rudolf, Lemme know when you are ready to take those measurements, I'll go grab the trans, and we'll meet up.
(07-22-2010, 11:36 PM)Captain America Hey Rudolf, Lemme know when you are ready to take those measurements, I'll go grab the trans, and we'll meet up.
Speaking about diffs.... Are you going with a locker (I use that term loosely), rather a limited slip?
(07-23-2010, 10:01 AM)Captain America Speaking about diffs.... Are you going with a locker (I use that term loosely), rather a limited slip?
(07-23-2010, 10:01 AM)Captain America Speaking about diffs.... Are you going with a locker (I use that term loosely), rather a limited slip?
very interesting! nice project you got there!
Ill be using a nissan FS5R30A behind my om606 when I finally get moving on it. Of course, its going into a nissan (well, datsun) car, so itll be a little easier for me, HA ha! These transmissions hold over 600rwhp in daily driven 300ZX TTs and equal if not more torque.
its got an OD ratio of .711 and I can get easily swappable rear in 200mm ring gear flavors of 3.13, 3.357, 3.54 and 3.7 and 230mm ring gear ratios of 2.94 and 3.35 flavors, so I kind of lucked out here, lol! the R200s will hold right around 600 to 650 ft lbs with slicks, and the R230s will hold pretty much what ever you can throw at it.
all I need is an adapter plate, which I will make on my own and a sprinter van flywheel with a 300ZX clutch disk. (both are 240mm, so it makes it easy!)
the clutch and flywheel will be the most expensive part of my swap, since the trans go between $200 and $500 all day long.
(07-01-2010, 08:06 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am considering selling the flywheel and then buying a G-wagen wheel, but that remains to be seen. BTW I weighed the flywheel and it weighs 36lbs. 9ozs.
(07-01-2010, 08:06 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am considering selling the flywheel and then buying a G-wagen wheel, but that remains to be seen. BTW I weighed the flywheel and it weighs 36lbs. 9ozs.
(07-24-2010, 11:07 PM)SurfRodder(07-01-2010, 08:06 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am considering selling the flywheel and then buying a G-wagen wheel, but that remains to be seen. BTW I weighed the flywheel and it weighs 36lbs. 9ozs.
I have a flywheel that supposedly came out of a G that I had shipped in from Germany(with matching clutch, throwout, etc). It was also pretty rusty when I got it but didnt appear to have and pits or severely worn grip surface. Anyway, since your beast will likely be putting more power down than mine ever will, I'm open for a trade, if you decide there is a serious performance/longevity gain to be had. I'll try to weigh it and see if theres any difference than what you posted for yours and post a couple of pics. I'm relatively local(S.D.) and I head up to visit my parents in the So.Bay ever month or so (in fact that's where the flywheel is currently, so I'll have to get my dad to weigh it). Alternately you can probably cruise by to take a look at it sometime as he's retired and usually around. Anyway, lemme know.
Josh
(07-24-2010, 11:07 PM)SurfRodder(07-01-2010, 08:06 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am considering selling the flywheel and then buying a G-wagen wheel, but that remains to be seen. BTW I weighed the flywheel and it weighs 36lbs. 9ozs.
I have a flywheel that supposedly came out of a G that I had shipped in from Germany(with matching clutch, throwout, etc). It was also pretty rusty when I got it but didnt appear to have and pits or severely worn grip surface. Anyway, since your beast will likely be putting more power down than mine ever will, I'm open for a trade, if you decide there is a serious performance/longevity gain to be had. I'll try to weigh it and see if theres any difference than what you posted for yours and post a couple of pics. I'm relatively local(S.D.) and I head up to visit my parents in the So.Bay ever month or so (in fact that's where the flywheel is currently, so I'll have to get my dad to weigh it). Alternately you can probably cruise by to take a look at it sometime as he's retired and usually around. Anyway, lemme know.
Josh
(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel On another note, Our good buddy Deliveryvalve has sourced a 3.92 diff for me! That will put me right where I want to be.
(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel On another note, Our good buddy Deliveryvalve has sourced a 3.92 diff for me! That will put me right where I want to be.
(07-28-2010, 12:47 PM)dropnosky(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel On another note, Our good buddy Deliveryvalve has sourced a 3.92 diff for me! That will put me right where I want to be.
Im starting to think that Deliveryvalve either owns a yard, lives in a yard, or lives next to a yard. He found me a specific diff as well. I feel like he falls out his back door into a mountain of parts.
(07-28-2010, 12:47 PM)dropnosky(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel On another note, Our good buddy Deliveryvalve has sourced a 3.92 diff for me! That will put me right where I want to be.
Im starting to think that Deliveryvalve either owns a yard, lives in a yard, or lives next to a yard. He found me a specific diff as well. I feel like he falls out his back door into a mountain of parts.
(07-28-2010, 12:58 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(07-28-2010, 12:47 PM)dropnosky(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel On another note, Our good buddy Deliveryvalve has sourced a 3.92 diff for me! That will put me right where I want to be.
Im starting to think that Deliveryvalve either owns a yard, lives in a yard, or lives next to a yard. He found me a specific diff as well. I feel like he falls out his back door into a mountain of parts.
LOL
(07-28-2010, 12:58 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(07-28-2010, 12:47 PM)dropnosky(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel On another note, Our good buddy Deliveryvalve has sourced a 3.92 diff for me! That will put me right where I want to be.
Im starting to think that Deliveryvalve either owns a yard, lives in a yard, or lives next to a yard. He found me a specific diff as well. I feel like he falls out his back door into a mountain of parts.
LOL
SEXY
The oil and the inside look really clean and the teeth look excellent. Thanks a million!
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
(07-28-2010, 04:04 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
(07-28-2010, 04:04 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
(07-28-2010, 07:04 PM)DeliveryValve Well that is a bummer... I'd offer up my 2.47 LSD carrier, but unfortunately it's limited to a few other ratios that is not what your looking for...
(07-28-2010, 07:04 PM)DeliveryValve Well that is a bummer... I'd offer up my 2.47 LSD carrier, but unfortunately it's limited to a few other ratios that is not what your looking for...
(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Can you post a pic?
(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Can you post a pic?
(07-29-2010, 12:04 AM)SurfRodder(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Can you post a pic?
yeah, Ill give my pappy a call and see what he can drum up...I think I even left some citric acid up there so he can cook the rust off first... how much did you use to clean off the one you have?
(07-29-2010, 12:04 AM)SurfRodder(07-28-2010, 07:41 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Can you post a pic?
yeah, Ill give my pappy a call and see what he can drum up...I think I even left some citric acid up there so he can cook the rust off first... how much did you use to clean off the one you have?
(07-28-2010, 07:04 PM)DeliveryValve(07-28-2010, 04:04 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
Well that is a bummer... I'd offer up my 2.47 LSD carrier, but unfortunately it's limited to a few other ratios that is not what your looking for...
.
(07-28-2010, 07:04 PM)DeliveryValve(07-28-2010, 04:04 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
Well that is a bummer... I'd offer up my 2.47 LSD carrier, but unfortunately it's limited to a few other ratios that is not what your looking for...
.
(08-06-2010, 10:36 PM)85-300Dt(07-28-2010, 07:04 PM)DeliveryValve(07-28-2010, 04:04 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
Well that is a bummer... I'd offer up my 2.47 LSD carrier, but unfortunately it's limited to a few other ratios that is not what your looking for...
.
I'm interested if it'll go in a 85 300D.
(08-06-2010, 10:36 PM)85-300Dt(07-28-2010, 07:04 PM)DeliveryValve(07-28-2010, 04:04 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
I talked to someone on that LSD and they said to run away, run awy fast! Have to look for some thing else I guess.
Well that is a bummer... I'd offer up my 2.47 LSD carrier, but unfortunately it's limited to a few other ratios that is not what your looking for...
.
I'm interested if it'll go in a 85 300D.
I have a clutch/flywheel question.
I have been looking at using a 240D flywheel,pressure plate,and bell housing to adapt a M5R2 5 speed to a OM617.Should I try to source a 300D or Gwagen flywheel and pressure plate?Should I re-machine the 300D/G flywheel for the M5R2 pressure plate and clutch disc?11 inch clutch came in the Super Coupe Thunder Birds with a M5R2.It has a 10 spline 1 and 1/16 inch input shaft.Is there anything smaller that would work with that shaft size and spline count?
EDIT
Ahhhhh shat!I forgot that the M5R2 has a one piece case.It's the T-45 and T56 that I was looking into.I guess I could skip the 240D bell housing and fab up an adapter plate.Still need ideas on the flywheel and clutch set up.The T-45 uses the same clutch as the M5R2.The T56 uses a 26 spline input shaft and 11 inch clutch.That's all the info I can find on it.
Whenever I do a project like this I try to use as few custom parts as possible. That gives you the ability to get your replacement parts as easy as possible.
As far as the clutch spline arrangement, I would talk to the guys at Clutchnet - they can build you any configuration you need for your application.
From what I have read, in the clutch world size matters - any increase in size, as small as it may be, exponentionally increase gripping capabilities on the clutch/pressure plate assembly.
If you get a G wagon flywheel I would leave it alone and have a clutch/plate assembly made for it from clutchnet and call it a day.
If you can use a Merecedes bell housing then it makes it easier, if you cannot source one, no big deal - just makes it slightly more difficult, but not impossible.
I am trying not to use any custom one off parts.If I break down,I wanna be able to go to any auto parts store and purchase what I need.It will make it way easier in the long run.
(09-25-2010, 11:54 AM)ben2go I am trying not to use any custom one off parts.If I break down,I wanna be able to go to any auto parts store and purchase what I need.It will make it way easier in the long run.
(09-25-2010, 11:54 AM)ben2go I am trying not to use any custom one off parts.If I break down,I wanna be able to go to any auto parts store and purchase what I need.It will make it way easier in the long run.