OM617 convert from MW to M pump
OM617 convert from MW to M pump
04-25-2011, 01:47 PM
#1
It has a Defender frame, so it´s app 90,4" ore something.
The engine has a 10 mm MW pump built by me, problem is that the engine is to powerful, problems with gearbox, drivshaft etc.
10 mm pump app 2 bar turbopressure, hard knock, heating problems but a lot of power
Now I have mounted a 6 mm M pump, also built by the pro! that deliver app 90cc@1500 rpm.
Testrun today, everything ok, no smoke at full power, that we had with the 10 mm pump, smoot idle etc.
1-1,2 bar boost, no heating problem etc etc
![[Image: 905201182900P9881.jpg]](http://forumbilder.se/images/905201182900P9881.jpg)
Engine install with MW 10mm pump this is a nice installation.
![[Image: 085201183424P6008.jpg]](http://forumbilder.se/images/085201183424P6008.jpg)
6mm M pump installed.
NOTE, the M pump has lubrication thru camshaft on 617 original, when you swap pumps like this you must have lubrication from outside by a hose, as the MW has.
When M serie is original, there is another kind of gear that has a slot that puts in oil in put thru camshaft.
![[Image: e95201183937Pdaed.jpg]](http://forumbilder.se/images/e95201183937Pdaed.jpg)
Also you need other high pressure pipes, the MW pipes dont fit on M pump
![[Image: 255201184347P16fe.jpg]](http://forumbilder.se/images/255201184347P16fe.jpg)
I bee happy to answer the question I can.
This post was last modified: 04-25-2011, 01:48 PM by dieselmeken.
dieselmeken
04-25-2011, 01:47 PM #1This 88" Landrover has a 617 engine that has been in Morocco for outlet challange.
It has a Defender frame, so it´s app 90,4" ore something.
The engine has a 10 mm MW pump built by me, problem is that the engine is to powerful, problems with gearbox, drivshaft etc.
10 mm pump app 2 bar turbopressure, hard knock, heating problems but a lot of power
Now I have mounted a 6 mm M pump, also built by the pro! that deliver app 90cc@1500 rpm.
Testrun today, everything ok, no smoke at full power, that we had with the 10 mm pump, smoot idle etc.
1-1,2 bar boost, no heating problem etc etc
Engine install with MW 10mm pump this is a nice installation.
6mm M pump installed.
NOTE, the M pump has lubrication thru camshaft on 617 original, when you swap pumps like this you must have lubrication from outside by a hose, as the MW has.
When M serie is original, there is another kind of gear that has a slot that puts in oil in put thru camshaft.
Also you need other high pressure pipes, the MW pipes dont fit on M pump
I bee happy to answer the question I can.
04-25-2011, 02:10 PM
#2
-Jesse
80 300sd hy35, front mount intercooler, w115 intake, rack limiter removed, Alda removed, full load turned up, boost, ebp, trans, pyro, egr delete, 3.5" exhaust, e-fan, 16x8 rims with, 245/50 tires, lowered, bilstien 5100's, 12" front brakes, 2.65:1 diff.
97 f250 psd 4x4, crawler
70 f250 390
83 Volvo 242, lots of mods
66 Volvo amazon
10 mistsubishi fuso service truck.
That thing is so awesome.
-Jesse
80 300sd hy35, front mount intercooler, w115 intake, rack limiter removed, Alda removed, full load turned up, boost, ebp, trans, pyro, egr delete, 3.5" exhaust, e-fan, 16x8 rims with, 245/50 tires, lowered, bilstien 5100's, 12" front brakes, 2.65:1 diff.
97 f250 psd 4x4, crawler
70 f250 390
83 Volvo 242, lots of mods
66 Volvo amazon
10 mistsubishi fuso service truck.
04-25-2011, 03:20 PM
#3
I am slightly lost on the oiling...
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
04-25-2011, 03:20 PM #3Thing is way cool! Can you make that much power for us please!?!
I am slightly lost on the oiling...
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
04-25-2011, 03:34 PM
#4
So how much for a slightly used 10mm pump?
RE Oil, Forced has a write up on it around here somewhere. Meken is saying that the original M pump got oil from the gear the input shaft (I thought it was the other way around).
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Oh god that is so clean its sex.
So how much for a slightly used 10mm pump?
RE Oil, Forced has a write up on it around here somewhere. Meken is saying that the original M pump got oil from the gear the input shaft (I thought it was the other way around).
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-25-2011, 06:29 PM
#5
(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken The engine has a 10 mm MW pump built by me, problem is that the engine is to powerful, problems with gearbox, drivshaft etc.
10 mm pump app 2 bar turbopressure, hard knock, heating problems but a lot of power
We got about 300 miles or so on the 300dt with the modified 10mm MW that I built before the trans grenaded, and the max fuel quantity was set to match the 5.5mm "turned up" pump as close as possible.
Everything needs to be changed when going to 10mm from the 5.5mm stock set up. After reading this I am very pleased with my set up, as the Idle was clean, it didn't nail (after it warmed up that is), and was very drivable. Gobbs of power potential.
(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken The engine has a 10 mm MW pump built by me, problem is that the engine is to powerful, problems with gearbox, drivshaft etc.
10 mm pump app 2 bar turbopressure, hard knock, heating problems but a lot of power
We got about 300 miles or so on the 300dt with the modified 10mm MW that I built before the trans grenaded, and the max fuel quantity was set to match the 5.5mm "turned up" pump as close as possible.
Everything needs to be changed when going to 10mm from the 5.5mm stock set up. After reading this I am very pleased with my set up, as the Idle was clean, it didn't nail (after it warmed up that is), and was very drivable. Gobbs of power potential.
04-25-2011, 08:01 PM
#6
1981 Mercedes 300TD Lowered 4 speed manual Holset HX30
mike-81-240d
04-25-2011, 08:01 PM #6Can I haz this defender? Me want...
1981 Mercedes 300TD Lowered 4 speed manual Holset HX30
04-25-2011, 11:09 PM
#7
(04-25-2011, 03:34 PM)winmutt Oh god that is so clean its sex.
So how much for a slightly used 10mm pump?
RE Oil, Forced has a write up on it around here somewhere. Meken is saying that the original M pump got oil from the gear the input shaft (I thought it was the other way around).
Well the MW pumps have oil lines going to them... Guess the M pumps dont... I get it now
ps. I got dibs on that pump!
This post was last modified: 04-25-2011, 11:13 PM by Captain America.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
04-25-2011, 11:09 PM #7(04-25-2011, 03:34 PM)winmutt Oh god that is so clean its sex.
So how much for a slightly used 10mm pump?
RE Oil, Forced has a write up on it around here somewhere. Meken is saying that the original M pump got oil from the gear the input shaft (I thought it was the other way around).
Well the MW pumps have oil lines going to them... Guess the M pumps dont... I get it now
ps. I got dibs on that pump!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
04-26-2011, 12:51 AM
#8
10 mm gives around 140cc, hard knock on low idle, this can bee reduced with a lower alpha angel or different elements with reducing slot, but as we need the power I had to go for 24 degrees BTDC with the 10 mm, On high rpm, over 1500 the engine was stabil and WERY powerful, but too much smoke, even at 2 bar so it was overfuelling a lot. 6 mm dont give any smoke at 1,2 bar, but is a bit lack of power for the moment. Another turbo may bee the answer. For the moment we have a VNT from 320CDI that I dont think work as I would like. Maybee a smaller Schwitzer will be the answer?
Also the M serie for 617 has the RSF first generation governor, that one has no ALDA, so for the moment we have a slight smokepuff when putting throttle to maximum.
The engine is now running absolutly perfect, the battery in my camera died, otherwise I would have a small filmclip of the testrun, Have to come back with that later on.
(04-25-2011, 03:34 PM)winmutt So how much for a slightly used 10mm pump?
http://media.jnytt.se/resources/news/200...3%A5l2.jpg
http://www.jnytt.se/editorupload/vattenh%E5l1.jpg
This post was last modified: 04-26-2011, 12:56 AM by dieselmeken.
dieselmeken
04-26-2011, 12:51 AM #8The 10 mm is not for sale for the moment, we need to see if the 6 mm leaves the power that the car needs, otherwise the 10 mm goes in to my workshop for modification. This is try and error, I havent heard of any 617 with this high poweroutput.
10 mm gives around 140cc, hard knock on low idle, this can bee reduced with a lower alpha angel or different elements with reducing slot, but as we need the power I had to go for 24 degrees BTDC with the 10 mm, On high rpm, over 1500 the engine was stabil and WERY powerful, but too much smoke, even at 2 bar so it was overfuelling a lot. 6 mm dont give any smoke at 1,2 bar, but is a bit lack of power for the moment. Another turbo may bee the answer. For the moment we have a VNT from 320CDI that I dont think work as I would like. Maybee a smaller Schwitzer will be the answer?
Also the M serie for 617 has the RSF first generation governor, that one has no ALDA, so for the moment we have a slight smokepuff when putting throttle to maximum.
The engine is now running absolutly perfect, the battery in my camera died, otherwise I would have a small filmclip of the testrun, Have to come back with that later on.
(04-25-2011, 03:34 PM)winmutt So how much for a slightly used 10mm pump?
http://media.jnytt.se/resources/news/200...3%A5l2.jpg
http://www.jnytt.se/editorupload/vattenh%E5l1.jpg
04-26-2011, 01:09 AM
#9
I like the smoke puffs!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
04-26-2011, 01:09 AM #9Man that sounds sweet.
I like the smoke puffs!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
04-26-2011, 02:11 AM
#11
(04-26-2011, 01:49 AM)pp d(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken
Does the "stopper" stay there with good luck
Sorry, I had to....
No problems, this is when we bulid the new bracket for the throttlewire, the one that was on the MW dont fit, you should know that....
So we made a new one in aluminium. As I wrote earlier, the battery in my camera died. BTW, You dont need a Hartridge 2500 VDM Testbench? Have one for saledieselmeken
04-26-2011, 02:11 AM #11(04-26-2011, 01:49 AM)pp d(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken
Does the "stopper" stay there with good luck
Sorry, I had to....
No problems, this is when we bulid the new bracket for the throttlewire, the one that was on the MW dont fit, you should know that....
So we made a new one in aluminium. As I wrote earlier, the battery in my camera died. BTW, You dont need a Hartridge 2500 VDM Testbench? Have one for sale
04-26-2011, 08:04 AM
#12
No problems, this is when we bulid the new bracket for the throttlewire, the one that was on the MW dont fit, you should know that....
So we made a new one in aluminium. As I wrote earlier, the battery in my camera died. BTW, You dont need a Hartridge 2500 VDM Testbench? Have one for sale[/quote]
Like I said, I had to
I don`t really need that bench but how much costs that kind of 500 € bench?
No problems, this is when we bulid the new bracket for the throttlewire, the one that was on the MW dont fit, you should know that.... So we made a new one in aluminium. As I wrote earlier, the battery in my camera died. BTW, You dont need a Hartridge 2500 VDM Testbench? Have one for sale
[/quote]
Like I said, I had to
I don`t really need that bench but how much costs that kind of 500 € bench?
04-26-2011, 10:46 AM
#14
(04-26-2011, 10:25 AM)Einar http://cgi.ebay.com/Dieselworkshop-compl...20b87a08b0
If I understood correct, there was whole workshop and not just the bench
(04-26-2011, 10:25 AM)Einar http://cgi.ebay.com/Dieselworkshop-compl...20b87a08b0
If I understood correct, there was whole workshop and not just the bench
04-27-2011, 12:46 AM
#15
(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken ....
Now I have mounted a 6 mm M pump, also built by the pro! that deliver app 90cc@1500 rpm.....
Is that max fuel? And is that pump RPM or engine?
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken ....
10 mm gives around 140cc, ...
What is the boost level at 140cc?
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken otherwise the 10 mm goes in to my workshop for modification.
What sort of modifications are planned if you go that route?
Overall, nice looking setup!
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
04-27-2011, 12:46 AM #15(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken ....
Now I have mounted a 6 mm M pump, also built by the pro! that deliver app 90cc@1500 rpm.....
Is that max fuel? And is that pump RPM or engine?
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken ....
10 mm gives around 140cc, ...
What is the boost level at 140cc?
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken otherwise the 10 mm goes in to my workshop for modification.
What sort of modifications are planned if you go that route?
Overall, nice looking setup!
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
04-27-2011, 11:44 AM
#16
(04-27-2011, 12:46 AM)DeliveryValve(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken ....
Now I have mounted a 6 mm M pump, also built by the pro! that deliver app 90cc@1500 rpm.....
Is that max fuel? And is that pump RPM or engine? No, It´s not max, it will deliver around 120 at max. Pumprpm = 3000 engine rpm
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken ....
10 mm gives around 140cc, ...
What is the boost level at 140cc? App 2 bar, still smoking so it overfuels
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken otherwise the 10 mm goes in to my workshop for modification.
What sort of modifications are planned if you go that route? Make a retard slot on element for timing at low idle, and a not so much fuel at full load
Overall, nice looking setup!
.
dieselmeken
04-27-2011, 11:44 AM #16(04-27-2011, 12:46 AM)DeliveryValve(04-25-2011, 01:47 PM)dieselmeken ....
Now I have mounted a 6 mm M pump, also built by the pro! that deliver app 90cc@1500 rpm.....
Is that max fuel? And is that pump RPM or engine? No, It´s not max, it will deliver around 120 at max. Pumprpm = 3000 engine rpm
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken ....
10 mm gives around 140cc, ...
What is the boost level at 140cc? App 2 bar, still smoking so it overfuels
(04-26-2011, 12:51 AM)dieselmeken otherwise the 10 mm goes in to my workshop for modification.
What sort of modifications are planned if you go that route? Make a retard slot on element for timing at low idle, and a not so much fuel at full load
Overall, nice looking setup!
.
04-29-2011, 10:38 PM
#17
Was the inter-cooler is necessary?
I am actually towards the end of a similar conversion, only mine is an early land cruiser.
We have enough room for an IC, just waiting to see how high my EGTs get
Tires look like 35s...what are driving/wheeling characteristics like?
any input you can provide would be appreciated,
manny
Toyota fj40 Landcruiser with a Mercedes om617 3.0L turbo diesel
dieselmeken,
Was the inter-cooler is necessary?
I am actually towards the end of a similar conversion, only mine is an early land cruiser.
We have enough room for an IC, just waiting to see how high my EGTs get
Tires look like 35s...what are driving/wheeling characteristics like?
any input you can provide would be appreciated,
manny
Toyota fj40 Landcruiser with a Mercedes om617 3.0L turbo diesel
05-16-2011, 04:14 PM
#18
*1984 Mercedes S123 300TD turbodiesel*
*1993 BMW 525tdsT*
*1990 BMW 524 turbodiesel*
*1983 BMW 745iA e23*
*1969 BMW 3.0csl racecar*
Diesel-Wiking
05-16-2011, 04:14 PM #18how much do you take for 10mm pump rebuild if I come to you with my car? in and out with the pump + 10mm element?
*1984 Mercedes S123 300TD turbodiesel*
*1993 BMW 525tdsT*
*1990 BMW 524 turbodiesel*
*1983 BMW 745iA e23*
*1969 BMW 3.0csl racecar*
05-16-2011, 11:51 PM
#19
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
05-16-2011, 11:51 PM #19Me want video see now! Lol
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
11-21-2011, 01:24 AM
#20
Lance Carbuncle
11-21-2011, 01:24 AM #20Why did you choose to go from the MW pump to the M pump rather than just using smaller elements in a MW pump? (sorry if this a dumb question, but I am a diesel newbie trying to get a grasp on all this diesel technology)
11-21-2011, 01:57 AM
#21
(11-21-2011, 01:24 AM)Lance Carbuncle Why did you choose to go from the MW pump to the M pump rather than just using smaller elements in a MW pump? (sorry if this a dumb question, but I am a diesel newbie trying to get a grasp on all this diesel technology)
There is no good smaller element on the market for MW pump. The M-serie also has a better governor i think.
dieselmeken
11-21-2011, 01:57 AM #21(11-21-2011, 01:24 AM)Lance Carbuncle Why did you choose to go from the MW pump to the M pump rather than just using smaller elements in a MW pump? (sorry if this a dumb question, but I am a diesel newbie trying to get a grasp on all this diesel technology)
There is no good smaller element on the market for MW pump. The M-serie also has a better governor i think.
11-21-2011, 03:00 AM
#22
(11-21-2011, 01:57 AM)dieselmeken There is no good smaller element on the market for MW pump.
long time ago there were Holly elements available with 6 and later 6.5mm elements
Can't say anything about the governor but the MW pump seems to be the better pump in terms of max. pressure and much easier to adjust from outside due to the flange type barrels.
And it's original on 617a engines...
Tom
(11-21-2011, 01:57 AM)dieselmeken There is no good smaller element on the market for MW pump.
long time ago there were Holly elements available with 6 and later 6.5mm elements
Can't say anything about the governor but the MW pump seems to be the better pump in terms of max. pressure and much easier to adjust from outside due to the flange type barrels.
And it's original on 617a engines...
Tom
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