mercedes as a drag strip car
mercedes as a drag strip car
hello forum, larry perkins from louisville ky here,thanks for letting me join.
this winter i an going to put together a diesel for a 1/8 mile drag strip.
i and my sons have a 69 camero sb with roots 6-71 blower,runs low 6 sec .
i agreeded to be the mechanic for the team,ita a blast for a 67 year old mechanic to hold on to and try to react to.
so i firure i will retire to the stock times and let the young folks go at it.
some of you know me from the mercedes forum,i do enjoy the site.
i thank those who will suggest any process to me that will assist in this adventure.
1 question,has there been any mercedes tranny modifications that has the tranny brake,or do you all just do the foot brake.i have watched some track action on the puter and for sure the line lock is used on the faster cars,but cant determine if a tranny brake is there.
2 i have looked at some of your post and compliment you on the modifications,my first decision will be the engine-body type to use.i have 4-5-6 clylinder diesels,including the 603 3.5 liter,i was thinking a 124 body with the 3.5 liter,suggestions please.
larry perkins lou ky
Everyone around here uses a foot brake. What they use in Finland is difficult to figure out. The Finnish lanuage barrier alone is very difficult to overcome and then many of them are secretive about their modifications because they competitively race.
The 3.5L is known to be weak. Search any of the forums for "rod bender" and you'll find quite a bit about it.
The 3.0L OM603 and OM606 are the best to use. I know of several that have around 400hp with untouched (stock) internals. 500-600hp is possible on the OM606 with internal upgrades.
The W124 is a great car but for a drag stip car, I'd be looking to the W201 (190E/D) and R107 (SL).
forced induction,thanks for the reply.
would anyone mind telling me the 1/8 mile times i could expect with the various set ups,617,603,606? i need to look at the rule book to see if i need any roll bar-roll cage work.
agree about the 3.5 l,it has been a real discovery process for me,i have one on the engine stand that has been bored and sleeved to the 3.0 l piston ,heavy rods. its about a 3.3l now,being experimental i wanted to see if it would be a dependable engine.
larry perkins lou ky
hello win,yep the same one,not THE one,i was selfish and stuck with percedes for all mods.
i saw your site here and am trying to put together a drag unit,mostly from my stock,looks like u'all done a lot of mods and research so just maybe i can duplicate and pass any thing learned from the project on to the forum.
i am making a list of improvements to my unit that i want to try,like improving the coolong effect of the block coolant,i believe that removing the thermostat will cause less water thru the radiator but why not plug the port that allows coolant to circulate the block during warm up and then remove the thermostat for a less restricted radiator flow,maybe a smaller pully on the waterpump,maybe just run a electric water pump.
larry perkins lou ky
larry perkins hello win,yep the same one,not THE one,i was selfish and stuck with percedes for all mods.You need to start with a good engine. OM60x is the way to go. Ideally a 3.5 liter factory rebuilt. Something with new internals at the minimum. Then you will want a big ass turbo and a very good intercooling system. Then you will want fuel management. From there you can start doing other things.
i saw your site here and am trying to put together a drag unit,mostly from my stock,looks like u'all done a lot of mods and research so just maybe i can duplicate and pass any thing learned from the project on to the forum.
i am making a list of improvements to my unit that i want to try,like improving the coolong effect of the block coolant,i believe that removing the thermostat will cause less water thru the radiator but why not plug the port that allows coolant to circulate the block during warm up and then remove the thermostat for a less restricted radiator flow,maybe a smaller pully on the waterpump,maybe just run a electric water pump.
larry perkins lou ky
larry perkins hello win,yep the same one,not THE one,i was selfish and stuck with percedes for all mods.You need to start with a good engine. OM60x is the way to go. Ideally a 3.5 liter factory rebuilt. Something with new internals at the minimum. Then you will want a big ass turbo and a very good intercooling system. Then you will want fuel management. From there you can start doing other things.
i saw your site here and am trying to put together a drag unit,mostly from my stock,looks like u'all done a lot of mods and research so just maybe i can duplicate and pass any thing learned from the project on to the forum.
i am making a list of improvements to my unit that i want to try,like improving the coolong effect of the block coolant,i believe that removing the thermostat will cause less water thru the radiator but why not plug the port that allows coolant to circulate the block during warm up and then remove the thermostat for a less restricted radiator flow,maybe a smaller pully on the waterpump,maybe just run a electric water pump.
larry perkins lou ky
in reference to the body style selection, if i one was to look for a ready made set up to handle horse power and torque what would be the best to start with(exclude the pullman-i got a lot of choices-not that one)
win i do have a 1976 slc and a 1984 sl that could be considered.
larry perkins lou ky
SLC will also look better if you get it fast enough to need a roll cage.
i need to get a handle on the best drive train to use,looks like the 560 set up would give the best chance of survival and be ready available,the 100 series tranny in the 6.3 or the 6.9 would be best and i suppose the hardest to find. it would be easy to make a hybrid and lock the engine to a chevy or ford but some one will look and know it aint mb.(me first,lol)
any one seen any data from a dyno on the 603 thaat has been heated to the limit?
larry perkins lou ky
man what a challenge,scales are much easier.
ok,i was stuck on this tranny brake subject,so took apart a 722.3 and found that i could in theory apply air or fluid to the reverse chamber and lock the 1st and reverse gear at same time,problem is 1st is 3.68-1 and reverse is 5.14-1.
question is,you that foot brake,with the modifications to raise hp and torque, will the brakes hold at converter stall? would you mind giving some rpm values
larry perkins lou ky
They will hold fine. Installing larger brakes will make it even easier.
Stall speeds are 1500rpm for pre-84 and 1800rpm for post-84.
(01-13-2009, 12:18 PM)ForcedInduction They will hold fine. Installing larger brakes will make it even easier.
Stall speeds are 1500rpm for pre-84 and 1800rpm for post-84.
(01-13-2009, 12:18 PM)ForcedInduction They will hold fine. Installing larger brakes will make it even easier.
Stall speeds are 1500rpm for pre-84 and 1800rpm for post-84.
If you can make that trans brake work, that would be awesome! Somebody has to be first to figure things out.
I don't think the ratio difference matters, since they rotate in opposite directions it would be locked no matter how you look at it. I'd be more worried about the bands and clutches being able to hold the torque.
ok men,i been reading about the modifications to the injection pump that u all have made,would anyone want to suggest a value, once the fuel has been set to its max,that the 5.5 element is equivelent to?
what i am considering for the drag unit is max out the pump,burn all the fuel with introducing nitrous oxide on a non lineral curve based on boost or time.
by the way,i should have some time this week to push along the tranny brake idea a bit,what i am doing is blocking the reverse clutch port and either use air-co2-or fluid pressure to energize as a reverse on demand.
i will have to get pictures of all mods(which i have never tried to post)so will need help there also.
larry perkins lou ky
Now that would be a cool use for my onboard air system (If I still had an automatic)
fi,since u are up early,answere a question,as i read the ip info i see a term dv mentioned,what does that mean?
nice air system,beats my test system all to h--l,got a old co2 bottle with a accy regulator to adjust the aldy pressure to fake if on turbo pressure.
come on now, how do i figure how much hp gain i should get if i can burn all the fuel with the ip maxed out,some one stated that the pump could supply fuel for 180hp max,dont know if thats turned up or not.
does myna supply any info on the mods they do with the element change?
larry perkins lou ky
(01-18-2009, 11:54 AM)larry perkins fi,since u are up early,answere a question,as i read the ip info i see a term dv mentioned,what does that mean?Delivery valve.
Quote:how do i figure how much hp gain i should get if I can burn all the fuel with the ip maxed outWell, my pump is maxed out (the rack limiter is removed) and it doesn't feel anywhere near 180hp. I haven't gone back to the dyno because my engine's knock is still slowly getting worse and I can't risk 3 full power runs to 4500rpm with it being my only car (Considering that, it probably wasn't a good idea to remove my rack limiter in the first place...)
Quote:l,got a old co2 bottle with a accy regulator to adjust the aldy pressure to fake if on turbo pressure.Why not just remove the ALDA completely? That has the same effect of what you're doing with the air bottle.
(01-18-2009, 11:54 AM)larry perkins fi,since u are up early,answere a question,as i read the ip info i see a term dv mentioned,what does that mean?Delivery valve.
Quote:how do i figure how much hp gain i should get if I can burn all the fuel with the ip maxed outWell, my pump is maxed out (the rack limiter is removed) and it doesn't feel anywhere near 180hp. I haven't gone back to the dyno because my engine's knock is still slowly getting worse and I can't risk 3 full power runs to 4500rpm with it being my only car (Considering that, it probably wasn't a good idea to remove my rack limiter in the first place...)
Quote:l,got a old co2 bottle with a accy regulator to adjust the aldy pressure to fake if on turbo pressure.Why not just remove the ALDA completely? That has the same effect of what you're doing with the air bottle.
man has this week been a tough one here in louisville,ice storm pretty much put a halt to everything except survival. power out since first of week and looking at possible another week. got my shop running with a generator from my rv and home running on propane and a welder/generator set.
got a question about the mercedes camshaft,has anyone ever seen any technical data such as lift,lobe centerline,duration,etc?
keeping an open mind in reference to the engine to use i just cant forget about the 617,i have my propane injection designed,nitrous designed and keep thinking about the heat and that cast iron head,and on the 617 cam i could shift the torque to the high end after a new chain.
forced,i just wanted to get as much info from simple changes is the reason i just supplied air pressure to the alda,it will come off the engine i use.
any help appreciated.
larry perkins,lou ky
I'm not up on all the Mercedes diesel engines. The block I used to create this kit was from a 1984 model.
-----Original Message-----
From: LPdytrader@aol.com
To: BBendtsen@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: Mercedes diesel adapter
hello bob,would you state which mercedes this kit is designed to fit on?
thanks larry perkins
In a message dated 3/13/2009 4:08:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BBendtsen writes:
We are done with the Mecedes diesel trans adapter. The kit consists of an adapter plate, a custom built torque converter, a mini-high torque starter, and the bolt kit. The original flywheel/flexplate combo is retained.
The cost of this kit is going to be $925.00.
Bob Bendtsen
Bendtsen's Transmission Adapters
763 767 448
those looking to convert to 700 series(check this out with bob) tranny,may want to look at this. i am working on him to get the 603 engine kit but no results yet.
larry perkins lou ky
ok forum,still kicking here,finally got a 124 car to the track with about 300 miles on a rebuilt engine,got alcohol and propane both hooked up to the grease car but didnt run either,just the straight diesel. 10.8102 was the best time for the 1/8 mile at 65.19 mph.
figured i had better do some break in. i set the ip to max,ported the head,added boost control(20psi@750deg f)added 2 inch opening to exhaust(2" ball valve),removed alda valve.
so i am to believe this is my limit with the car pretty well stock with adjustments.
larry perkins lou ky
(08-04-2009, 07:25 AM)winmutt Long time no hear. Is this the Percedes?
(08-04-2009, 07:25 AM)winmutt Long time no hear. Is this the Percedes?
ok,engine still run quite with 6gph nozzle for alcohol,best time was 10.2206 at 64.10 mph for the 1/8 mile,looked like it did cool the ehaust temp a bit,looked when i crossed the line and saw 725 f.
looks like i can go on up with the alcohol,did get some tire spin and 60foot was 2.1438(2.4242 was best 60 ft with #2 diesel) so will have to address tire spin with more alcohol.
what a satisfying problem to solve.
larry perkins lou ky
ok, wasn't a glory night but did run better with the 9gph alcohol nozzle,10.1600at 66.48mph fot the 1/8 mile.had enough tire spin to get side ways a couple car lenghts.
today tested a line lock that will allow me to heat the tires a bit,anyone interestes all i did was put a ground to 3 electric lines on the anti lock brakes and she holds the front with the rears free for the spin. this is a 87 300d if you want the info ask and i will post here for everyone.
larry perkins lou ky
(08-08-2009, 04:44 PM)larry perkins this is a 87 300d if you want the info ask and i will post here for everyone.
larry perkins lou ky
(08-08-2009, 04:44 PM)larry perkins this is a 87 300d if you want the info ask and i will post here for everyone.
larry perkins lou ky