Is this OM603 worth it?
Is this OM603 worth it?
So I have the Chance to buy an 87' E300 turbo OM603 with 250k for $800. My question is how does this engine compare to my OM617? Is this price worth it? I think I would be happy with about 200hp, What would it take to get this? Please chime in with any advice or info you may have on this. I was thinking 7mm pump? or am I just wasting my time with the 603 idea. Been waiting on the Dieselmeken OM617 pump but 2 years later and nothing yet.
Back story first. So I put a low mile OM617 in my Jeep Cherokee, been driving it for a year. Everything work including AC. The problem is with AC on the motor really struggles above 65mph with 32" tires. Forget about pulling a trailer. Don't get me wrong its great just wish it had more power.
So I have the Chance to buy an 87' E300 turbo OM603 with 250k for $800. My question is how does this engine compare to my OM617? Is this price worth it? I think I would be happy with about 200hp, What would it take to get this? Please chime in with any advice or info you may have on this. I was thinking 7mm pump? or am I just wasting my time with the 603 idea. Been waiting on the Dieselmeken OM617 pump but 2 years later and nothing yet.
element. i did a job for a friend in a G 300 and it is pulling really well.
but the thing with the pump is that 800USD is the price i could sell u one of those. and the 603 if in a turbo version, in order to pull better than a 617A u got to mess with the pump, despite a 6mm pump will do the trick it cost about the same.
dieselmeken can sell u a M pump for the 617A as well.
was your tiping mystake or u do have a 617 N/A. if its correct u shoud drop it in the bin and go for the 603 turbo.
regards.
FD,
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yep, u really don´t need that 603, despite is a far better engine for power increase, what u really need is a hybrid M pump with 7.5 mm
element. i did a job for a friend in a G 300 and it is pulling really well.
but the thing with the pump is that 800USD is the price i could sell u one of those. and the 603 if in a turbo version, in order to pull better than a 617A u got to mess with the pump, despite a 6mm pump will do the trick it cost about the same.
dieselmeken can sell u a M pump for the 617A as well.
was your tiping mystake or u do have a 617 N/A. if its correct u shoud drop it in the bin and go for the 603 turbo.
regards.
FD,
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Agreed. If there is no 8mm MW pump yet get an M pump with 7.5mm elements. You would have to reengineer the complete engine swap since the engines are so different. Also the early 603 has head issues and you would also have to upgrade the pump anyway to reach 200hp. Not worth it IMHO.
raysorenson
06-15-2015, 03:33 PM #4And the early 603's (87) had issues with head gaskets and lifters too. Goran is putting some kind of big elements in the MW pump right now, IDK what size but still, you won't have to change injector lines and throttle linkage if you keep your MW.
Just thought it would be easy to get 200hp++ from the 603. Anyone know a good source for a used 606?
Damn guys I thought the 603 to be a big leap forward in technology compared to the 617, I guess not. You think a Goran built MW with 7mm elements will get me to the 200hp mark with the ancient 617?
Just thought it would be easy to get 200hp++ from the 603. Anyone know a good source for a used 606?
the 617A is a 2900cc engine in 5 cyl form with indirect take from camshaft, not suitable for high RPM purposes, not only cause the valve train but also cause its too far from square. its oversquare causing a huge piston relative velocity, causing in the long therm piston ring play and ovalization of cylinders.
on the other hand the 603 is a tech breakthrough, same 2900cc divided by 6 cylinders , reducing the piston relative velocity and therefore increasing durability, and suitability for high RPM driving consistent with automotive purposes, the valve train was improved being the direct over head cam take and consequently the hyd tappets wich are auto tune.
Both of them are 2 valve cylinder, wich make the 5 cyl a beter choice for a 4 wheeler, in my opinion cause 5 or 6 cylinder torque abilities dont differ that much, the valve train works the same in low and med RPM range, wich is what in a 4*4 vehicle maters most, the 5 cyl engine cause the internal waste energy is lower, the tq abilities in a high stroke engine are far better, shorter engine block less problems head related. cooling and so on, and latest the noise u can hear from a 5 cyl .
i can´t see why u want to change into a 603 or a 606?
FD,
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hey evenglass, the 617A is not so bad engine but u keep saying 617.....
the 617A is a 2900cc engine in 5 cyl form with indirect take from camshaft, not suitable for high RPM purposes, not only cause the valve train but also cause its too far from square. its oversquare causing a huge piston relative velocity, causing in the long therm piston ring play and ovalization of cylinders.
on the other hand the 603 is a tech breakthrough, same 2900cc divided by 6 cylinders , reducing the piston relative velocity and therefore increasing durability, and suitability for high RPM driving consistent with automotive purposes, the valve train was improved being the direct over head cam take and consequently the hyd tappets wich are auto tune.
Both of them are 2 valve cylinder, wich make the 5 cyl a beter choice for a 4 wheeler, in my opinion cause 5 or 6 cylinder torque abilities dont differ that much, the valve train works the same in low and med RPM range, wich is what in a 4*4 vehicle maters most, the 5 cyl engine cause the internal waste energy is lower, the tq abilities in a high stroke engine are far better, shorter engine block less problems head related. cooling and so on, and latest the noise u can hear from a 5 cyl .
i can´t see why u want to change into a 603 or a 606?
FD,
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(06-16-2015, 03:25 AM)barrote hey evenglass, the 617A is not so bad engine but u keep saying 617.....this HTML class. Value is What I have is the o
the 617A is a 2900cc engine in 5 cyl form with indirect take from camshaft, not suitable for high RPM purposes, not only cause the valve train but also cause its too far from square. its oversquare causing a huge piston relative velocity, causing in the long therm piston ring play and ovalization of cylinders.
on the other hand the 603 is a tech breakthrough, same 2900cc divided by 6 cylinders , reducing the piston relative velocity and therefore increasing durability, and suitability for high RPM driving consistent with automotive purposes, the valve train was improved being the direct over head cam take and consequently the hyd tappets wich are auto tune.
Both of them are 2 valve cylinder, wich make the 5 cyl a beter choice for a 4 wheeler, in my opinion cause 5 or 6 cylinder torque abilities dont differ that much, the valve train works the same in low and med RPM range, wich is what in a 4*4 vehicle maters most, the 5 cyl engine cause the internal waste energy is lower, the tq abilities in a high stroke engine are far better, shorter engine block less problems head related. cooling and so on, and latest the noise u can hear from a 5 cyl .
i can´t see why u want to change into a 603 or a 606?
(06-16-2015, 03:25 AM)barrote hey evenglass, the 617A is not so bad engine but u keep saying 617.....this HTML class. Value is What I have is the o
the 617A is a 2900cc engine in 5 cyl form with indirect take from camshaft, not suitable for high RPM purposes, not only cause the valve train but also cause its too far from square. its oversquare causing a huge piston relative velocity, causing in the long therm piston ring play and ovalization of cylinders.
on the other hand the 603 is a tech breakthrough, same 2900cc divided by 6 cylinders , reducing the piston relative velocity and therefore increasing durability, and suitability for high RPM driving consistent with automotive purposes, the valve train was improved being the direct over head cam take and consequently the hyd tappets wich are auto tune.
Both of them are 2 valve cylinder, wich make the 5 cyl a beter choice for a 4 wheeler, in my opinion cause 5 or 6 cylinder torque abilities dont differ that much, the valve train works the same in low and med RPM range, wich is what in a 4*4 vehicle maters most, the 5 cyl engine cause the internal waste energy is lower, the tq abilities in a high stroke engine are far better, shorter engine block less problems head related. cooling and so on, and latest the noise u can hear from a 5 cyl .
i can´t see why u want to change into a 603 or a 606?
Om617.952 HP 125@ 4350rpm, torque 184@ 2400
Om603a HP 148@ 4600rpm, torque 195@ 2400
Om606a HP 177@ 4400rpm, torque 243@ 1600
On comparison the 617a and 603a look close. The 603a breathes better with its 2 more valves this is why I think it can be made more powerful. My question is which one will easily achieve 200hp with available parts. There are examples of 603a in the 350hp+ range but no 617a.
I think you have done a good job of talking me out of the 603a. With that said I don't believe the 617a or 603a can be compared to the 606a.
What I have is the om617.952 turbo.
Om617.952 HP 125@ 4350rpm, torque 184@ 2400
Om603a HP 148@ 4600rpm, torque 195@ 2400
Om606a HP 177@ 4400rpm, torque 243@ 1600
On comparison the 617a and 603a look close. The 603a breathes better with its 2 more valves this is why I think it can be made more powerful. My question is which one will easily achieve 200hp with available parts. There are examples of 603a in the 350hp+ range but no 617a.
I think you have done a good job of talking me out of the 603a. With that said I don't believe the 617a or 603a can be compared to the 606a.
the 606.96X engines are like beasts, once tuned to run at 6000RPM can develop figures around 800 N/m 500HP , but the thing is at mid RPM range they behave like a 603, or a 617A. and beter said can u drive a offroad vehicle with peak torque at 4000 rpm on?
as i said u can buy a M pump for 617A plus injection lines, set the governor to max fuel of 100cc and u have 200HP plus. same as u have for the 603. either way u have to buy a Modded pump for 200hp, whether u go 617A, 603, or 606. using the 617A just makes it cheaper
after that u have to change clutches and gearboxes so .....the modded M pump u can have it from many places....
FD,
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yep u´re right, the 603 and the 617A for a offroad aplication are almost identical. u should never forguet that a HORSE POWER is a fuel consuption measure, what move´s u forward is the TORQUE the engine can develop. turning force over time. and that the 617A is almost the same as the 603.
the 606.96X engines are like beasts, once tuned to run at 6000RPM can develop figures around 800 N/m 500HP , but the thing is at mid RPM range they behave like a 603, or a 617A. and beter said can u drive a offroad vehicle with peak torque at 4000 rpm on?
as i said u can buy a M pump for 617A plus injection lines, set the governor to max fuel of 100cc and u have 200HP plus. same as u have for the 603. either way u have to buy a Modded pump for 200hp, whether u go 617A, 603, or 606. using the 617A just makes it cheaper after that u have to change clutches and gearboxes so .....
the modded M pump u can have it from many places....
FD,
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IMO the 603 is an improvement over the 617-quieter,smoother and more efficient. But still it is just evolution nothing revolutionary in it. Still prechamber and with 2 valves per cylinder. Expect it is a inline six versus a five.
Too little improvement to justify having to redo the whole engine swap- engine mounts are different, so is the bolt pattern for the transmission. The six is longer and can be problematic when there is not a lot of space lengthwise.
And you have to get a modded pump to reach 200 Hp anyway, doesn't matter if 617 or 603 engine. Also you have to upgrade the turbo and an intercooler is practically a must have.
@barotte both the 603 and 617 engines are 3.0 liter not 2.9.
IMO the 603 is an improvement over the 617-quieter,smoother and more efficient. But still it is just evolution nothing revolutionary in it. Still prechamber and with 2 valves per cylinder. Expect it is a inline six versus a five.
Too little improvement to justify having to redo the whole engine swap- engine mounts are different, so is the bolt pattern for the transmission. The six is longer and can be problematic when there is not a lot of space lengthwise.
And you have to get a modded pump to reach 200 Hp anyway, doesn't matter if 617 or 603 engine. Also you have to upgrade the turbo and an intercooler is practically a must have.
Pic of my pig just because i like to show her off.
![[Image: 10906203_834023679973279_262440130639443...e=56296932]](https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/10906203_834023679973279_2624401306394430657_n.jpg?oh=7f8c6c061baa65f68a41ca9c64d08bcf&oe=56296932)
MERCEDES-BENZ
06-16-2015, 08:33 PM #12I have spoke to Goran about the new MW pump and he said that his new MW pump with his thick 8mm elements are good for 250+ hp and produces 120cc max fuel. he also said he has a crazy friend running one of his M pumps pushing 4bar boost and 300+hp out of a 617A. I personally have a 617A in my 90 toyota pickup running 4.56 gears and 44" tall tires and can do 50mph just fine. Have you thought about re-gearing your axles? I use to own a 87 300D with a 603a and it was a great car it gave some hondas and cummins owners a run for their money. I say stick with the 617, think about re gearing your axles, then if thats not enough power give Goran a call he told me his MW pumps are ready to go on the market $1,200usd.
Pic of my pig just because i like to show her off.
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