possible gains from om617 fan delete?
possible gains from om617 fan delete?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
Another thing to note is that their test was stationary. Normally, when you are revving high, the fan is slicing through already moving air and thus not really doing any work. Their stationary test forced the fan to move a mountain of air.
What nonsense. They need to find a new clutch brand. The fan should be mostly freewheeling unless the engine is hot. If the engine is hot, an electric offers less performance and less efficiency.
Another thing to note is that their test was stationary. Normally, when you are revving high, the fan is slicing through already moving air and thus not really doing any work. Their stationary test forced the fan to move a mountain of air.
I always remove engine driven fans due to the fact that years ago I took my MGB to a dyno day and we ran it without the fan and gained 9 hp. That was with a tiny fan! Of course at cruising speed it's probably only 2 or 3 hp, but that's not nothing.
I removed my engine driven fan years ago. I added an 16" puller electric but it almost never turns on. When it's hot out I usually have the AC going and that electric pusher is enough to keep everything cool unless I am stuck in really bad stop and go traffic and it's over 100 degrees out.
I always remove engine driven fans due to the fact that years ago I took my MGB to a dyno day and we ran it without the fan and gained 9 hp. That was with a tiny fan! Of course at cruising speed it's probably only 2 or 3 hp, but that's not nothing.
I replaced my clutch fan with an electric fan from a Ford Taurus. One huge benefit is to remove the fan assembly and gain a ton of space you remove 2 small M4 nuts and disconnect the power supply. It usually takes more time to look for the 8mm wrench than it does to remove it.
I saw that Engine Master episode when it first aired and thought it was pretty interesting. AlanMcR makes valid points which I would love to see tested.
I replaced my clutch fan with an electric fan from a Ford Taurus. One huge benefit is to remove the fan assembly and gain a ton of space you remove 2 small M4 nuts and disconnect the power supply. It usually takes more time to look for the 8mm wrench than it does to remove it.
All this being said, even if it does only gain a few hp I'd consider that a win given how cheap it is to do and how difficult it is to get power out of these engines.
I think if I do this, a hood stack, and delete the egr I could get a very noticeable increase in power. I'll report back to this thread if and when I delete it.
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
I have a friend with an electric fan sitting in his garage that he offered to give me for free if I wanted to delete my clutch driven one. I was more interested in people's own personal experiences with clutch vs electric fans when I made this and thanks for the responses.
All this being said, even if it does only gain a few hp I'd consider that a win given how cheap it is to do and how difficult it is to get power out of these engines.
I think if I do this, a hood stack, and delete the egr I could get a very noticeable increase in power. I'll report back to this thread if and when I delete it.
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
I like having mechanical things so I was looking at a electric fan clutch (ie like a A/C compressor) and have a grub screw that I could engage to lock the fan to the hub if I ever had a clutch failure (however remote that would be)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I was thinking the same thing after watching that. Unfortunately my fan clutch is only a couple years old.
I like having mechanical things so I was looking at a electric fan clutch (ie like a A/C compressor) and have a grub screw that I could engage to lock the fan to the hub if I ever had a clutch failure (however remote that would be)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(05-26-2017, 12:10 AM)NZScott I was thinking the same thing after watching that. Unfortunately my fan clutch is only a couple years old.
I like having mechanical things so I was looking at a electric fan clutch (ie like a A/C compressor) and have a grub screw that I could engage to lock the fan to the hub if I ever had a clutch failure (however remote that would be)
I get what you mean. Captain america went an electrical fan and it failed! I think he actually runs no fan now. This being said, the stubbornness of these engines to want to make power makes me think it would probably be worth it.
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
(05-26-2017, 12:10 AM)NZScott I was thinking the same thing after watching that. Unfortunately my fan clutch is only a couple years old.
I like having mechanical things so I was looking at a electric fan clutch (ie like a A/C compressor) and have a grub screw that I could engage to lock the fan to the hub if I ever had a clutch failure (however remote that would be)
I get what you mean. Captain america went an electrical fan and it failed! I think he actually runs no fan now. This being said, the stubbornness of these engines to want to make power makes me think it would probably be worth it.
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
(05-26-2017, 12:10 AM)NZScott I was thinking the same thing after watching that. Unfortunately my fan clutch is only a couple years old.
I like having mechanical things so I was looking at a electric fan clutch (ie like a A/C compressor) and have a grub screw that I could engage to lock the fan to the hub if I ever had a clutch failure (however remote that would be)
A clever friend of mine was stuck out in the desert with a non-functioning clutch fan. He knotted the end of a rope and fed it into the gap between the fan and the clutch, locking it up. Note that many fans work the other way, where the fan is bolted to the body of the clutch.
(05-26-2017, 12:10 AM)NZScott I was thinking the same thing after watching that. Unfortunately my fan clutch is only a couple years old.
I like having mechanical things so I was looking at a electric fan clutch (ie like a A/C compressor) and have a grub screw that I could engage to lock the fan to the hub if I ever had a clutch failure (however remote that would be)
A clever friend of mine was stuck out in the desert with a non-functioning clutch fan. He knotted the end of a rope and fed it into the gap between the fan and the clutch, locking it up. Note that many fans work the other way, where the fan is bolted to the body of the clutch.
Googling "electric radiator fan clutch" isn't very useful but I did manage to discover some 190E 2.3 and Dodge Rams have them (no doubt others too)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Interesting. Guess even some wire could lock a fan up
Googling "electric radiator fan clutch" isn't very useful but I did manage to discover some 190E 2.3 and Dodge Rams have them (no doubt others too)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Rarely ever comes on(the engine is cold blooded).
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
06-05-2017, 01:32 PM #10I switched from a funcitonal clutch fan on my 2.3L ford to an electric fan. It made a noticeable improvement in acceleration from 0, and it's way quieter than the mechanical fan.
Rarely ever comes on(the engine is cold blooded).
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(06-04-2017, 09:27 PM)NZScott Interesting. Guess even some wire could lock a fan up
Googling "electric radiator fan clutch" isn't very useful but I did manage to discover some 190E 2.3 and Dodge Rams have them (no doubt others too)
It's just a magnetic clutch that connects the fan or disconnects it. The same as an electric fan, just not independent form engine speed. And I think that's about the only real advantage an electric fan offers over a mechanical fan.
And I don't like it. The engine temperature rises, fan engages, temperature sinks, temperature rises again, fan engages... And so on. It's a constant up and down of temperature. With a viscous fan clutch, the temperature is much more constant from my observation.
I like the viscous fan clutch - and I like to have the AC fan as a backup.
I think it's a matter of preference; efficient cooling, or maximum power. Me, I prefer good cooling over maximum power.
DiseaselWeasel
06-05-2017, 02:28 PM #11(06-04-2017, 09:27 PM)NZScott Interesting. Guess even some wire could lock a fan up
Googling "electric radiator fan clutch" isn't very useful but I did manage to discover some 190E 2.3 and Dodge Rams have them (no doubt others too)
It's just a magnetic clutch that connects the fan or disconnects it. The same as an electric fan, just not independent form engine speed. And I think that's about the only real advantage an electric fan offers over a mechanical fan.
And I don't like it. The engine temperature rises, fan engages, temperature sinks, temperature rises again, fan engages... And so on. It's a constant up and down of temperature. With a viscous fan clutch, the temperature is much more constant from my observation.
I like the viscous fan clutch - and I like to have the AC fan as a backup.
I think it's a matter of preference; efficient cooling, or maximum power. Me, I prefer good cooling over maximum power.
I had a look on a parts diagram for a 2.3 and there'd be quite a bit of work getting that setup on a 617.
Think I'll just leave mine alone
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
The fan won't be anywhere near as noisy as a full electric one though won't it?
I had a look on a parts diagram for a 2.3 and there'd be quite a bit of work getting that setup on a 617.
Think I'll just leave mine alone
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I switched from viscous to electric and then back again. No difference in power or mileage was observed. But I did overheat an engine when a relay failed.
Injecting some numbers into this discussion: Most Mercedes G's come with viscous clutch fans. These things basically sound like a hurricane when fully engaged. On the higher powered Gs, where they simply ran out of space under the hood, MB started using an even more powerful electric fan. That fan, which also sounds like a hurricane then fully spun up, draws 850W, or 1.13 HP. Remember that unless the air leaving your radiator is smoking hot the clutch is only slightly engaged and thus very little power is being drawn.
I switched from viscous to electric and then back again. No difference in power or mileage was observed. But I did overheat an engine when a relay failed.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Anything which removes parasitic drag from the engine will make your car peppier. Switching to manual steering made a noticeable difference as you are no longer spinning a PS pump. Same with the fan. Spinning any type of fan will consume energy. Getting rid of the mechanical water pump and going with an electrical water pump will likewise free up some HP as well. The latter is just a trade-off of course. Going to manual tranny will likewise free up some HP. My car is a W123 but the above will hold true for any application.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(06-05-2017, 11:23 PM)NZScott The fan won't be anywhere near as noisy as a full electric one though won't it?
I had a look on a parts diagram for a 2.3 and there'd be quite a bit of work getting that setup on a 617.
Think I'll just leave mine alone
Oh I used a generic eb*y fan and a 210*F on 190*F off generic relay kit.
Also, I'm talking about the Ford 2.3L Lima engine-basically a lawnmower engine.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
06-07-2017, 10:22 AM #15(06-05-2017, 11:23 PM)NZScott The fan won't be anywhere near as noisy as a full electric one though won't it?
I had a look on a parts diagram for a 2.3 and there'd be quite a bit of work getting that setup on a 617.
Think I'll just leave mine alone
Oh I used a generic eb*y fan and a 210*F on 190*F off generic relay kit.
Also, I'm talking about the Ford 2.3L Lima engine-basically a lawnmower engine.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(06-07-2017, 08:55 AM)Greazzer Anything which removes parasitic drag from the engine will make your car peppier. Switching to manual steering made a noticeable difference as you are no longer spinning a PS pump. Same with the fan. Spinning any type of fan will consume energy. Getting rid of the mechanical water pump and going with an electrical water pump will likewise free up some HP as well. The latter is just a trade-off of course. Going to manual tranny will likewise free up some HP. My car is a W123 but the above will hold true for any application.
Now this I find interesting. I knew this was true before I read your post, but I always figured that there wasn't much drag on the power steering pump.
How did you delete it? Did you just take off the belt or was it more involved that that?
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
(06-07-2017, 08:55 AM)Greazzer Anything which removes parasitic drag from the engine will make your car peppier. Switching to manual steering made a noticeable difference as you are no longer spinning a PS pump. Same with the fan. Spinning any type of fan will consume energy. Getting rid of the mechanical water pump and going with an electrical water pump will likewise free up some HP as well. The latter is just a trade-off of course. Going to manual tranny will likewise free up some HP. My car is a W123 but the above will hold true for any application.
Now this I find interesting. I knew this was true before I read your post, but I always figured that there wasn't much drag on the power steering pump.
How did you delete it? Did you just take off the belt or was it more involved that that?
1984 300d 132k restormod project in the works
1985 300td 300k $600 off road adventure project
1999 land cruiser 235k, 33" mud tires, off road, towing, hauler
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
W123 originally came with manual steering, not many but they are out there. Somewhat rare. You will need the steering box, Pittman Arm, and lower section of steering shaft, and the correct grommet.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
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