Vortech on a 617?
Vortech on a 617?
11-16-2009, 01:36 PM
#1
The one thing I hate about the idea of adding a supercharger is plumbing the oil lines for it, especially it it's going to be on the IP side of the engine. So to overcome that I found the Vortech V3 which is self lubed.
A bonus of mounting it up in the said location is I that plumbing a front mount intercooler would be a straight shot over to the intake.
My goal is to get more boost at low RPM's (takeoff).
What do you guys think? Any opinions about Vortech's? Should I hook everything up in a compound setup, or could I even get rid of the turbo all together?
Now I don't want to boost the hell out of my 617, I don't intend to build a Mynamonsterdiesel, I just want more boost off the line and a little more high end boost for efficiency since I commute 70-some miles a day to school.
Any opinions are appreciated, positive or negative. I have some time to get my plan together as I won't have the funds or the time to do this until after new years. The car im talking about is my '83 300CD. Everything engine-wise is stock.
1983 300CD "Spike" Stock, as of now.
Hey guys, I've been tinkering with the thought of pulling my A/C compressor (dead) and mounting up a supercharger in it's little hole. I want to pull the A/C anyway for the obvious weight reduction and install one of my solid state air conditioners.
The one thing I hate about the idea of adding a supercharger is plumbing the oil lines for it, especially it it's going to be on the IP side of the engine. So to overcome that I found the Vortech V3 which is self lubed.
A bonus of mounting it up in the said location is I that plumbing a front mount intercooler would be a straight shot over to the intake.
My goal is to get more boost at low RPM's (takeoff).
What do you guys think? Any opinions about Vortech's? Should I hook everything up in a compound setup, or could I even get rid of the turbo all together?
Now I don't want to boost the hell out of my 617, I don't intend to build a Mynamonsterdiesel, I just want more boost off the line and a little more high end boost for efficiency since I commute 70-some miles a day to school.
Any opinions are appreciated, positive or negative. I have some time to get my plan together as I won't have the funds or the time to do this until after new years. The car im talking about is my '83 300CD. Everything engine-wise is stock.
1983 300CD "Spike" Stock, as of now.
11-16-2009, 02:12 PM
#2
(11-16-2009, 01:36 PM)Nick My goal is to get more boost at low RPM's (takeoff).You won't get that with a centrifugal supercharger. It will build boost slower than a wastegated turbo and boost is tied to engine RPM instead of load.
Quote:Any opinions about Vortech's?IMHO, all centrifugal superchargers in general are junk. You get the lag of a turbo, parasitic crankshaft power draw of a supercharger and it wastes the engine's exhaust energy. IMHO again, a blower or screw are the only way to go if you want to supercharge since they are positive-flow and can boost from idle rather than having to spin up with the engine.
Quote:Should I hook everything up in a compound setupThat depends on your goals. A single VNT will spool up far faster than a centrifugal supercharger and can handle well more than what the 5.5mm IP can support.
The V3 is also very large. A 617 consumes 25-35Lb/Min of air on the top end with ~20psi of boost, the V-3 can push over 70 at it's peak pressure. A GT4202 with its 102mm compressor wheel would have less surge! As the high-flow low-pressure (~10psi max) in a compound, it would still be right on the surge line the entire rev range.
In any case, it would be very underutilized on a 617 (less than 1/3 of its potential). If you want a Vortech, the V-5 and V-9 look really good for a primary on a 3.0L diesel.
Hope this helps.
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ForcedInduction
11-16-2009, 02:12 PM
#2
(11-16-2009, 01:36 PM)Nick My goal is to get more boost at low RPM's (takeoff).You won't get that with a centrifugal supercharger. It will build boost slower than a wastegated turbo and boost is tied to engine RPM instead of load.
Quote:Any opinions about Vortech's?IMHO, all centrifugal superchargers in general are junk. You get the lag of a turbo, parasitic crankshaft power draw of a supercharger and it wastes the engine's exhaust energy. IMHO again, a blower or screw are the only way to go if you want to supercharge since they are positive-flow and can boost from idle rather than having to spin up with the engine.
Quote:Should I hook everything up in a compound setupThat depends on your goals. A single VNT will spool up far faster than a centrifugal supercharger and can handle well more than what the 5.5mm IP can support.
The V3 is also very large. A 617 consumes 25-35Lb/Min of air on the top end with ~20psi of boost, the V-3 can push over 70 at it's peak pressure. A GT4202 with its 102mm compressor wheel would have less surge! As the high-flow low-pressure (~10psi max) in a compound, it would still be right on the surge line the entire rev range.
In any case, it would be very underutilized on a 617 (less than 1/3 of its potential). If you want a Vortech, the V-5 and V-9 look really good for a primary on a 3.0L diesel.
Hope this helps.
Attached Files
Image(s)
12-05-2009, 12:39 PM
#3
Quote:You won't get that with a centrifugal supercharger. It will build boost slower than a wastegated turbo and boost is tied to engine RPM instead of load.
So I'd want to look for a screw type supercharger? Honestly, im still pretty new to this stuff.. I don't want to do anything until I know what im doing.
Quote:IMHO, all centrifugal superchargers in general are junk. You get the lag of a turbo, parasitic crankshaft power draw of a supercharger and it wastes the engine's exhaust energy. IMHO again, a blower or screw are the only way to go if you want to supercharge since they are positive-flow and can boost from idle rather than having to spin up with the engine.
This answers my last question. My school has about 10 isles of nothing but car books, I'll snag a few books on superchargers, FI, etc. I'd love the sound of an Eaton competing with a 617
Quote:That depends on your goals. A single VNT will spool up far faster than a centrifugal supercharger and can handle well more than what the 5.5mm IP can support.
The V3 is also very large. A 617 consumes 25-35Lb/Min of air on the top end with ~20psi of boost, the V-3 can push over 70 at it's peak pressure. A GT4202 with its 102mm compressor wheel would have less surge! As the high-flow low-pressure (~10psi max) in a compound, it would still be right on the surge line the entire rev range.
In any case, it would be very underutilized on a 617 (less than 1/3 of its potential). If you want a Vortech, the V-5 and V-9 look really good for a primary on a 3.0L diesel.
My big goal here is more torque in the low end and if possible a little more cruising efficiency. I drive 70+ miles a day to and from school/work, so this has to be a commuter car too..
Damnit I should of read more about that V3, I figured it would be way too big/small for a 617.. I just liked it because there would be no oil lines to plumb. I like the idea of the screw supercharger, but I still have some research to do..
You would know this, I remember seeing somewhere online that the KKK turbo on my 617 has an adjustable wastegate? Back me up on that..?
Quote:Hope this helps.
Sure did.
This post was last modified: 12-05-2009, 12:40 PM by Nick.
1983 300CD "Spike" Stock, as of now.
Quote:You won't get that with a centrifugal supercharger. It will build boost slower than a wastegated turbo and boost is tied to engine RPM instead of load.
So I'd want to look for a screw type supercharger? Honestly, im still pretty new to this stuff.. I don't want to do anything until I know what im doing.
Quote:IMHO, all centrifugal superchargers in general are junk. You get the lag of a turbo, parasitic crankshaft power draw of a supercharger and it wastes the engine's exhaust energy. IMHO again, a blower or screw are the only way to go if you want to supercharge since they are positive-flow and can boost from idle rather than having to spin up with the engine.
This answers my last question. My school has about 10 isles of nothing but car books, I'll snag a few books on superchargers, FI, etc. I'd love the sound of an Eaton competing with a 617
Quote:That depends on your goals. A single VNT will spool up far faster than a centrifugal supercharger and can handle well more than what the 5.5mm IP can support.
The V3 is also very large. A 617 consumes 25-35Lb/Min of air on the top end with ~20psi of boost, the V-3 can push over 70 at it's peak pressure. A GT4202 with its 102mm compressor wheel would have less surge! As the high-flow low-pressure (~10psi max) in a compound, it would still be right on the surge line the entire rev range.
In any case, it would be very underutilized on a 617 (less than 1/3 of its potential). If you want a Vortech, the V-5 and V-9 look really good for a primary on a 3.0L diesel.
My big goal here is more torque in the low end and if possible a little more cruising efficiency. I drive 70+ miles a day to and from school/work, so this has to be a commuter car too..
Damnit I should of read more about that V3, I figured it would be way too big/small for a 617.. I just liked it because there would be no oil lines to plumb. I like the idea of the screw supercharger, but I still have some research to do..
You would know this, I remember seeing somewhere online that the KKK turbo on my 617 has an adjustable wastegate? Back me up on that..?
Quote:Hope this helps.
Sure did.
1983 300CD "Spike" Stock, as of now.
12-05-2009, 05:07 PM
#4
(12-05-2009, 12:39 PM)Nick So I'd want to look for a screw type supercharger?Yes, screw and roots blowers are positive displacement. They move a known fixed volume of air per revolution. Boost is instant and consistent across the rpm range, changing a little as efficiency changes.
The two top lines are twin screw and eaton superchargers. The one that ramps up at 3500 is the turbo. The linear line is the Centrifugal Supercharger.
Quote:My big goal here is more torque in the low end and if possible a little more cruising efficiency. I drive 70+ miles a day to and from school/work, so this has to be a commuter car too..A VNT would definitely do that, but a screw or roots blower would do it even quicker. A centrifugal supercharger would be a huge downgrade over even a conventional turbo since it will never see maximum boost until maximum rpm.
Centrifugal superchargers are more for the "I want more power, cheap" crowd with naturally aspirated engines. Thats what the V3 is for, somebody with a 305+ V8 that wants a quick power boost for less work and cost than turbo(s).
Quote:You would know this, I remember seeing somewhere online that the KKK turbo on my 617 has an adjustable wastegate? Back me up on that..?The top of the wastegate has a 10mm locknut and a 3mm(5mm?) allen setscrew. CW increases boost but the higher you go the more boost wants to creep past the set point at high rpm.
This post was last modified: 12-05-2009, 05:08 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
12-05-2009, 05:07 PM
#4
(12-05-2009, 12:39 PM)Nick So I'd want to look for a screw type supercharger?Yes, screw and roots blowers are positive displacement. They move a known fixed volume of air per revolution. Boost is instant and consistent across the rpm range, changing a little as efficiency changes.
The two top lines are twin screw and eaton superchargers. The one that ramps up at 3500 is the turbo. The linear line is the Centrifugal Supercharger.
Quote:My big goal here is more torque in the low end and if possible a little more cruising efficiency. I drive 70+ miles a day to and from school/work, so this has to be a commuter car too..A VNT would definitely do that, but a screw or roots blower would do it even quicker. A centrifugal supercharger would be a huge downgrade over even a conventional turbo since it will never see maximum boost until maximum rpm.
Centrifugal superchargers are more for the "I want more power, cheap" crowd with naturally aspirated engines. Thats what the V3 is for, somebody with a 305+ V8 that wants a quick power boost for less work and cost than turbo(s).
Quote:You would know this, I remember seeing somewhere online that the KKK turbo on my 617 has an adjustable wastegate? Back me up on that..?The top of the wastegate has a 10mm locknut and a 3mm(5mm?) allen setscrew. CW increases boost but the higher you go the more boost wants to creep past the set point at high rpm.
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