1985 300SD More Power wanted!
1985 300SD More Power wanted!
. Just some background. I have the valves adjusted, oil is 5w40 rotella, water pump and radiator have been replaced, all vacuum hoses have been replaced, EGR was removed, did a diesel purge, installed EGT and Boost gauges, ALDA is turned all the way up, Boost was turned up to about 12 PSI. Car runs fantastic and i have seen 26 MPG consistently (all freeway driving). I have preformed all the necessary maintenance that i believe would be a precursor to tuning the engine for more power.Now that u have most of the history on what i have done in the past 6 months time for the good stuff. I would like to get at least 200 HP out of the engine. From all my research it seems as though this is pretty feasible. However, i am unsure as what my next step should be? I have thought about putting a supercharger on with the turbo and that idea was quickly shot down on another forum. I think I want to go with a VNT turbo to get rid of the lag. What i am more concerned with is what i need to do with the IP to get 200 HP. How much can the IP support with adjustments alone? What adjustments would be necessary to "max" out the fuel delivery? I have seen everything from replacing elements to removing the rack limiter to adjusting the full load to sending it off to MYNA and spending a ton of money. I am not really familiar with the internal workings of the IP so messing with it up to this point has made me uncomfortable.
From what i have read the stock turbo is good for about 15 LBS without damage. I would like to start with getting the most out of the stock turbo and having the fuel to back it up. Basically what i am asking is what should be my next step. I have read so many articles and i am at a loss as where to start.
polarisrmk
12-02-2009, 01:20 AM #1I have been reading this forum for a few months now and have just joined. I have been the member of other forums that have helped me get my 1985 300SD into prime shape and perfect running condition. Now all i need is more power . Just some background. I have the valves adjusted, oil is 5w40 rotella, water pump and radiator have been replaced, all vacuum hoses have been replaced, EGR was removed, did a diesel purge, installed EGT and Boost gauges, ALDA is turned all the way up, Boost was turned up to about 12 PSI. Car runs fantastic and i have seen 26 MPG consistently (all freeway driving). I have preformed all the necessary maintenance that i believe would be a precursor to tuning the engine for more power.
Now that u have most of the history on what i have done in the past 6 months time for the good stuff. I would like to get at least 200 HP out of the engine. From all my research it seems as though this is pretty feasible. However, i am unsure as what my next step should be? I have thought about putting a supercharger on with the turbo and that idea was quickly shot down on another forum. I think I want to go with a VNT turbo to get rid of the lag. What i am more concerned with is what i need to do with the IP to get 200 HP. How much can the IP support with adjustments alone? What adjustments would be necessary to "max" out the fuel delivery? I have seen everything from replacing elements to removing the rack limiter to adjusting the full load to sending it off to MYNA and spending a ton of money. I am not really familiar with the internal workings of the IP so messing with it up to this point has made me uncomfortable.
From what i have read the stock turbo is good for about 15 LBS without damage. I would like to start with getting the most out of the stock turbo and having the fuel to back it up. Basically what i am asking is what should be my next step. I have read so many articles and i am at a loss as where to start.
For the stock setup, removing the rack limiter and upping the boost to 15psi will net around 140hp at the crank. From there its VNT or upgraded pump, whichever you want first, both will give a good power bump.
ForcedInduction
12-02-2009, 01:36 AM
#2
Get a pyrometer first if you don't already have one so you can at least see whats "normal" for your engine.
For the stock setup, removing the rack limiter and upping the boost to 15psi will net around 140hp at the crank. From there its VNT or upgraded pump, whichever you want first, both will give a good power bump.
(12-02-2009, 01:36 AM)ForcedInduction Get a pyrometer first if you don't already have one so you can at least see whats "normal" for your engine.
For the stock setup, removing the rack limiter and upping the boost to 15psi will net around 140hp at the crank. From there its VNT or upgraded pump, whichever you want first, both will give a good power bump.
I do have a pyrometer in the car. What Kind of boost pressure can I run with a VNT upgrade before upgrading the pump? What route should I take for a pump upgrade?
polarisrmk
12-02-2009, 01:51 AM #3(12-02-2009, 01:36 AM)ForcedInduction Get a pyrometer first if you don't already have one so you can at least see whats "normal" for your engine.
For the stock setup, removing the rack limiter and upping the boost to 15psi will net around 140hp at the crank. From there its VNT or upgraded pump, whichever you want first, both will give a good power bump.
I do have a pyrometer in the car. What Kind of boost pressure can I run with a VNT upgrade before upgrading the pump? What route should I take for a pump upgrade?
(12-02-2009, 01:36 AM)ForcedInduction Get a pyrometer first if you don't already have one so you can at least see whats "normal" for your engine.
For the stock setup, removing the rack limiter and upping the boost to 15psi will net around 140hp at the crank. From there its VNT or upgraded pump, whichever you want first, both will give a good power bump.
What about trying to shave the DV's and/or upgrade to the 6.5 mm elements and plungers? Instead of running a VNT setup and dealing with those headaches, what about using an HX/HY-30 Holset turbocharger...?
(12-02-2009, 01:36 AM)ForcedInduction Get a pyrometer first if you don't already have one so you can at least see whats "normal" for your engine.
For the stock setup, removing the rack limiter and upping the boost to 15psi will net around 140hp at the crank. From there its VNT or upgraded pump, whichever you want first, both will give a good power bump.
What about trying to shave the DV's and/or upgrade to the 6.5 mm elements and plungers? Instead of running a VNT setup and dealing with those headaches, what about using an HX/HY-30 Holset turbocharger...?
(12-02-2009, 02:48 AM)Ian White What about trying to shave the DV's and/or upgrade to the 6.5 mm elements and plungers? Instead of running a VNT setup and dealing with those headachesWhat headaches? Installing it is the hardest part and there are many simple and reliable control methods available, but both are well documented. DV's cause the most headaches by far since its still in infancy for our pumps and nobody has produced good results yet.
Quote:what about using an HX/HY-30 Holset turbocharger...?Holsets are better than Garrett for getting high boost numbers, but they can't produce the huge change in low rpm torque like a VNT. Holsets are good for racing, but low end torque is what makes a fun daily driver.
ForcedInduction
12-02-2009, 10:43 AM
#5
(12-02-2009, 02:48 AM)Ian White What about trying to shave the DV's and/or upgrade to the 6.5 mm elements and plungers? Instead of running a VNT setup and dealing with those headachesWhat headaches? Installing it is the hardest part and there are many simple and reliable control methods available, but both are well documented. DV's cause the most headaches by far since its still in infancy for our pumps and nobody has produced good results yet.
Quote:what about using an HX/HY-30 Holset turbocharger...?Holsets are better than Garrett for getting high boost numbers, but they can't produce the huge change in low rpm torque like a VNT. Holsets are good for racing, but low end torque is what makes a fun daily driver.
(12-02-2009, 02:48 AM)Ian White [quote='ForcedInduction' pid='8441' dateline='1259735774']
What about trying to shave the DV's and/or upgrade to the 6.5 mm elements and plungers? Instead of running a VNT setup and dealing with those headaches, what about using an HX/HY-30 Holset turbocharger...?
The elements is where i get lost. What will they do for me? Is this something i can do myself cause i really don't want to ruin my IP. How much Boost pressure can I run before i run out of fuel with the stock IP with just the rack limiter removed? I have not heard good things about shaving the DV's so i think i will stay away from that one for now.
Which VNT turbo should I use? there seems to be an arguement on this one.
polarisrmk
12-02-2009, 11:18 AM #6(12-02-2009, 02:48 AM)Ian White [quote='ForcedInduction' pid='8441' dateline='1259735774']
What about trying to shave the DV's and/or upgrade to the 6.5 mm elements and plungers? Instead of running a VNT setup and dealing with those headaches, what about using an HX/HY-30 Holset turbocharger...?
The elements is where i get lost. What will they do for me? Is this something i can do myself cause i really don't want to ruin my IP. How much Boost pressure can I run before i run out of fuel with the stock IP with just the rack limiter removed? I have not heard good things about shaving the DV's so i think i will stay away from that one for now.
Which VNT turbo should I use? there seems to be an arguement on this one.
Try to get a GT22 at least, GT25 if possible or something similar in seize.
Get this running well and learn.
Next step might be elements. This is where we are right now. Most of us have the air, now comes the fuel (in small steps...).
Larger elements will deliver more fuel but unlike a maxed out IP within a healthy range (duration of injection) and larger elements will deliver more fuel compared to a maxed out IP. This is the secret of larger elements.
The common way is to give an IP to a bench shop and get the elements swapped and the IP adjusted well.
DervTuning has a contact where the guy knows what to do.
For sure not the cheapest part in such a project but necessary at a certain point and the IP is like new afterwards. This is why it should not be #1 on your to do list.
Do not think of DV mods until there are some proven good results from people who work on it.
Tom
First get more air. As F.I. said, go for a VTG and IC, max out your IP.
Try to get a GT22 at least, GT25 if possible or something similar in seize.
Get this running well and learn.
Next step might be elements. This is where we are right now. Most of us have the air, now comes the fuel (in small steps...).
Larger elements will deliver more fuel but unlike a maxed out IP within a healthy range (duration of injection) and larger elements will deliver more fuel compared to a maxed out IP. This is the secret of larger elements.
The common way is to give an IP to a bench shop and get the elements swapped and the IP adjusted well.
DervTuning has a contact where the guy knows what to do.
For sure not the cheapest part in such a project but necessary at a certain point and the IP is like new afterwards. This is why it should not be #1 on your to do list.
Do not think of DV mods until there are some proven good results from people who work on it.
Tom
(12-02-2009, 03:10 PM)tomnik First get more air. As F.I. said, go for a VTG and IC, max out your IP.
Try to get a GT22 at least, GT25 if possible or something similar in seize.
Get this running well and learn.
Next step might be elements. This is where we are right now. Most of us have the air, now comes the fuel (in small steps...).
Larger elements will deliver more fuel but unlike a maxed out IP within a healthy range (duration of injection) and larger elements will deliver more fuel compared to a maxed out IP. This is the secret of larger elements.
The common way is to give an IP to a bench shop and get the elements swapped and the IP adjusted well.
DervTuning has a contact where the guy knows what to do.
For sure not the cheapest part in such a project but necessary at a certain point and the IP is like new afterwards. This is why it should not be #1 on your to do list.
Do not think of DV mods until there are some proven good results from people who work on it.
Tom
This sounds like a good way to start. I am going to read over the VNT forum again so that i can see what others have done and begin that step of the process. Anyone know where i can get a good GT25 turbo from? What is the best way to control the vains on the turbo It seems as though most people are using a vacuum dashpot to do this. I did also read about someone that was controling them electronically, I will have to read more into that.
polarisrmk
12-02-2009, 06:44 PM #8(12-02-2009, 03:10 PM)tomnik First get more air. As F.I. said, go for a VTG and IC, max out your IP.
Try to get a GT22 at least, GT25 if possible or something similar in seize.
Get this running well and learn.
Next step might be elements. This is where we are right now. Most of us have the air, now comes the fuel (in small steps...).
Larger elements will deliver more fuel but unlike a maxed out IP within a healthy range (duration of injection) and larger elements will deliver more fuel compared to a maxed out IP. This is the secret of larger elements.
The common way is to give an IP to a bench shop and get the elements swapped and the IP adjusted well.
DervTuning has a contact where the guy knows what to do.
For sure not the cheapest part in such a project but necessary at a certain point and the IP is like new afterwards. This is why it should not be #1 on your to do list.
Do not think of DV mods until there are some proven good results from people who work on it.
Tom
This sounds like a good way to start. I am going to read over the VNT forum again so that i can see what others have done and begin that step of the process. Anyone know where i can get a good GT25 turbo from? What is the best way to control the vains on the turbo It seems as though most people are using a vacuum dashpot to do this. I did also read about someone that was controling them electronically, I will have to read more into that.
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