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+--- Thread: Moving the starter? (/showthread.php?tid=2260)
Moving the starter? - winmutt - 02-10-2011
So fha772 pointed on the 280 that you can apparently use a different backing plate and swap the starter position. I looked at a few engine pics this morning and with the oil cooler moved there might be enough room to do this with a 617 as well. I did notices that on the left side (viewing from back) there is a bit of a slope and may not be possible. If anyone has a 617 out of the car and doesn't mind playing around with this some, see if it looks like fitment is possible.
Some pics from PP:
![[Image: 5109063238_e8f60dedd6_b.jpg]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1427/5109063238_e8f60dedd6_b.jpg)
![[Image: 5109066022_31b45db772_b.jpg]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1411/5109066022_31b45db772_b.jpg)
![[Image: 5108467447_cfc8a374a6_b.jpg]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1084/5108467447_cfc8a374a6_b.jpg)
![[Image: 5128893189_788eee6082_b.jpg]](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/5128893189_788eee6082_b.jpg)
Anyone have better pics or actual blueprints?
RE: Moving the starter? - 300D50 - 02-10-2011
I've got an NA 617 on the stand, get me the measurements you want.
RE: Moving the starter? - dieselboy - 02-10-2011
I've got 2 617's (turbo) in the garage too.
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 02-10-2011
I also have 617 in storage I can take pics of.
Rudolf_Diesel has my other 617 and he has an intermediate plate that I gave him (probably doesn't matter if were talking about moving the starter. He might already have measurements.
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RE: Moving the starter? - winmutt - 02-13-2011
Please take measurements. If this is not a pipe dream....
RE: Moving the starter? - JB3 - 02-14-2011
these guys moved the starter to down low on the left with the stock setup still intact-
He said he used the stock starter too, and there was plenty of room down there.
Are we talking moving the starter so its on the opposite side high where the oil filter would be? If thats the case, I think a stock starter would hit the injection pump on a 617
RE: Moving the starter? - winmutt - 02-14-2011
(02-14-2011, 07:10 AM)dropnosky these guys moved the starter to down low on the left with the stock setup still intact-
He said he used the stock starter too, and there was plenty of room down there.
Are we talking moving the starter so its on the opposite side high where the oil filter would be? If thats the case, I think a stock starter would hit the injection pump on a 617
Well the idea is to see if you can mount the 201/124 5spd on a 617 simply by swapping the backing plate and starter. Its an pipe dream for now...
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 02-14-2011
(02-14-2011, 07:10 AM)dropnosky ...
Are we talking moving the starter so its on the opposite side high where the oil filter would be? If thats the case, I think a stock starter would hit the injection pump on a 617
That might be so. But when I briefly explored this idea in the past and measured, it was something like 9 inches from the intermediate plate to the starter bracket and something like 7 inches from the intermediate plate to the IP back cover. But I think the IP is mounted higher and might clear the starter if you use an '85 cali version. I look at it more later when I get a chance.
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RE: Moving the starter? - dieselboy - 02-15-2011
I played around a little with one today. I have. Adapter plate off of the engines so I flipped it over and set it on the back of the block backwards. You would definitely have to put it down lower. The filter housing is in the way big time. It looks like it may clear the ip.
I took pics but I couldn't find my tape or a ruler lol. So here are a few pics. I'm still sorta unclear of what it is that you are asking.
![[Image: 2a281bce.jpg]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dieselboy740/2a281bce.jpg)
![[Image: cb8beeb8.jpg]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dieselboy740/cb8beeb8.jpg)
![[Image: 20b68b0c.jpg]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dieselboy740/20b68b0c.jpg)
You can see the oil filter housing is clearly in the way if you were to flip the plate.
![[Image: ad7041c4.jpg]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dieselboy740/ad7041c4.jpg)
I'll bring my tape home tomorrow and measure the distance you have to put a starter in there.
RE: Moving the starter? - winmutt - 02-15-2011
I think it is alot easier to make a remote oil filter than it is to make a dropnosky transmission
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 02-15-2011
(02-14-2011, 02:00 PM)DeliveryValve ... But I think the IP is mounted higher and might clear the starter if you use an '85 cali version. ..Oops I just thought about this, by putting the Federal starter on the other side effectively makes it like a Cali version. The solenoid will be upside down.
(02-15-2011, 01:08 AM)dieselboy I'm still sorta unclear of what it is that you are asking.
...
There is general consensus that the oil filter housing is in the way. Which you've shown with your pictures. The other issue is whether or not the starter will clear the IP. I think it will, because the IP is mounted slightly higher.
Regarding the oil filter housing, a remote filter will get it out of the way. But I am inclined to keep the stock filter housing. I would be interested in block adapter and hose adapters that will effectively raise the filter housing up so it will clear the starter and still keep a stock look.... That is if I am going to install a 6 speed manual trans or maybe build up a 722.5 overdrive or adapt 722.6......
RE: Moving the starter? - 300D50 - 02-15-2011
I'm tooling up to do a run filter adapter plates, would be trivial to add the bypass port as well to keep the stock housing.
If needed, I could even do an "exotic" top exit plate for the block one, if it's needed to clear the starter. Wouldn't be too hard, just a little more time and stock.
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 02-15-2011
(02-15-2011, 09:25 AM)300D50 I'm tooling up to do a run filter adapter plates, would be trivial to add the bypass port as well to keep the stock housing.
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It really depends on what type of filter your using. If your using something like an Amsoil setup. Then no.. If your using it to remote the stock filter somewhere else. Then yes.
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RE: Moving the starter? - winmutt - 02-15-2011
(02-15-2011, 09:00 AM)DeliveryValve Regarding the oil filter housing, a remote filter will get it out of the way. But I am inclined to keep the stock filter housing. I would be interested in block adapter and hose adapters that will effectively raise the filter housing up so it will clear the starter and still keep a stock look.... That is if I am going to install a 6 speed manual trans or maybe build up a 722.5 overdrive or adapt 722.6......
Is there enough room under the hood to raise it that much? What about the 280 starter?
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 02-15-2011
(02-15-2011, 09:35 AM)winmutt ..
Is there enough room under the hood to raise it that much? What about the 280 starter?
Oh yeah it will clear. Your not raising it much. The filter housing top will still sit lower then the valve cover. The issue is really is if the block adapter will be thin enough so it will not protrude out to the starter.
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RE: Moving the starter? - SurfRodder - 02-19-2011
I am definitely interested in this as well... so what you guys are basically talking about doing is pulling the adapter from a gasser to put the starter on the other side to facilitate the newer trans? That would be totally awesome if that worked! I'd def. have no problem ditching the oil tower and going remote if it gave be more gears to grab.
RE: Moving the starter? - winmutt - 02-23-2011
It gives me an excuse to start looking for 280s with missing trans.
RE: Moving the starter? - winmutt - 03-04-2011
Stagger Lee sent us some pics!
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 03-05-2011
(03-04-2011, 10:46 AM)winmutt Stagger Lee sent us some pics!
Nice. Looks like it will work.
(02-15-2011, 09:38 AM)DeliveryValve(02-15-2011, 09:35 AM)winmutt ..
Is there enough room under the hood to raise it that much? What about the 280 starter?
Oh yeah it will clear. Your not raising it much. The filter housing top will still sit lower then the valve cover. The issue is really is if the block adapter will be thin enough so it will not protrude out to the starter.
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Hey 300D50, you think you can make an adapter that will just raise the filter housing a bit to clear the starter?
Heck I wouldn't mind if the housing is outward a bit also so I can easily reach that damn #5 glow plug!
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RE: Moving the starter? - 300D50 - 03-05-2011
Conceptually, yes, I could. Was thinking about it since the discussion started.
The only limiting factors would be vibration causing fatigue in the adapter if the housing is raised up too far.
Just need to know the clearances involved.
RE: Moving the starter? - DeliveryValve - 03-05-2011
(03-05-2011, 02:06 PM)300D50 Conceptually, yes, I could. Was thinking about it since the discussion started.
The only limiting factors would be vibration causing fatigue in the adapter if the housing is raised up too far.
Just need to know the clearances involved.
Perhaps making it out of mild steel? Yes clearance would have to be determined.
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RE: Moving the starter? - 300D50 - 03-05-2011
Steel is an option, aluminum is easier to work with and doesn't rust. Trade-offs suck...
RE: Moving the starter? - Syncro_G - 03-06-2011
It seems that if you're fabbing an adapter plate, that the V8 trannies with a starter blister on both sides of the bell would fit with little headache.
Any reason not to consider those?
RE: Moving the starter? - tantank79 - 04-28-2011
I just looked under the hood of my 280 only to find the M110 starter in the same spot as the OM617 started. Is there some other factory MB engine plate with a starter hump on the driver side, that could bolt to the OM617? I've heard some of the V8s had a provision for the starter on either or both sides.