Jeep OM605
Jeep OM605
Too bad it isn't this good in summer.
Finally I had time to install exhaust manifold pressure gauge. I was surprised how nicely the Schwitzer S200 / Holset #8 turbine housing combo works in winter. On cruise, egp equals boost. Pedal to the metal and 2bar boost, egp is 1,5bar at 3000rpm and 2bar at 5600rpm. It never goes above boost, unlike expected.
Too bad it isn't this good in summer.
(01-29-2014, 10:49 AM)muuris Finally I had time to install exhaust manifold pressure gauge. I was surprised how nicely the Schwitzer S200 / Holset #8 turbine housing combo works in winter. On cruise, egp equals boost. Pedal to the metal and 2bar boost, egp is 1,5bar at 3000rpm and 2bar at 5600rpm. It never goes above boost, unlike expected.
Too bad it isn't this good in summer.
how is it the summer then? egp higher then the boost?
(01-29-2014, 10:49 AM)muuris Finally I had time to install exhaust manifold pressure gauge. I was surprised how nicely the Schwitzer S200 / Holset #8 turbine housing combo works in winter. On cruise, egp equals boost. Pedal to the metal and 2bar boost, egp is 1,5bar at 3000rpm and 2bar at 5600rpm. It never goes above boost, unlike expected.
Too bad it isn't this good in summer.
how is it the summer then? egp higher then the boost?
(09-08-2013, 01:47 AM)muuris In winter a Holset #8 housing was machined to match it, which made it much better. In fifth/fourth gear it used to boost 2500rpm 0,3bar and with the #8 housing it got 1,0bar on fourth and 1,5bar on fifth! Some upper end power was lost. In winter the #8 housing was ok, but the engine began feeling sneezy in spring -- it's clear that there is too much exhaust backpressure with the tiny housing.
The exhaust manifold flap and few other parts for the sequential/twin turbo setup are done and I started to weld the new downpipe (3,5" area, flattened because of very tight fit). Next is building small turbo exhaust and oil return pipes, finding a new wastegate location and planning boost pipes.
Now it's -20deg Celsius and the car feels awesome, I think I'll just drive it until the weather becomes a bit warmer. Building a daily driver is sometimes frustrating because one can't do big disassembles without putting everything back at once. That's why I'll have to make all possible parts in advance before the one weekend add-a-turbo event
I installed the gauge just a few days ago, so I don't have actual measurements, only those made by butt-dyno. I figured that must be the case, due to difference in density of air between +20 and -20 deg Cels. From the first post
(09-08-2013, 01:47 AM)muuris In winter a Holset #8 housing was machined to match it, which made it much better. In fifth/fourth gear it used to boost 2500rpm 0,3bar and with the #8 housing it got 1,0bar on fourth and 1,5bar on fifth! Some upper end power was lost. In winter the #8 housing was ok, but the engine began feeling sneezy in spring -- it's clear that there is too much exhaust backpressure with the tiny housing.
The exhaust manifold flap and few other parts for the sequential/twin turbo setup are done and I started to weld the new downpipe (3,5" area, flattened because of very tight fit). Next is building small turbo exhaust and oil return pipes, finding a new wastegate location and planning boost pipes.
Now it's -20deg Celsius and the car feels awesome, I think I'll just drive it until the weather becomes a bit warmer. Building a daily driver is sometimes frustrating because one can't do big disassembles without putting everything back at once. That's why I'll have to make all possible parts in advance before the one weekend add-a-turbo event
Good luck
Where in Finland are you lockated?
I'm in south east norway, and it's only
-10 degs cel here
1#
Volvo 940 estate 1995
Originaly a d24tic
Changed to OM606.962 From the old 81 Benz
4" dp, 3,5" stainless from DP out.
8mm dieselmeken pump att 180cc
BW kkk K29 turbo, 15cm hot side
home made flywheel with sachs 765PP and original mercedes 240mm organic disc
6speed cdi box
4,5" humongus cooler
Please wait, loading boost
It Will be a awesome setup
Good luck
Where in Finland are you lockated?
I'm in south east norway, and it's only
-10 degs cel here
1#
Volvo 940 estate 1995
Originaly a d24tic
Changed to OM606.962 From the old 81 Benz
4" dp, 3,5" stainless from DP out.
8mm dieselmeken pump att 180cc
BW kkk K29 turbo, 15cm hot side
home made flywheel with sachs 765PP and original mercedes 240mm organic disc
6speed cdi box
4,5" humongus cooler
Please wait, loading boost
Muuris this thread has been very helpful for me and you have done a amazing job on all of you fabrication work! If there are any JEEP parts you need help with please don't hesitate to contact me as i do live in the land of Jeep's, Subaru's and V70XC. . . .
Duncansport
01-30-2014, 07:53 AM #56::SMH:: its been -19F here in the am
Muuris this thread has been very helpful for me and you have done a amazing job on all of you fabrication work! If there are any JEEP parts you need help with please don't hesitate to contact me as i do live in the land of Jeep's, Subaru's and V70XC. . . .
A little test video. Should get a proper recorder and separate mics for turbo inlet and especially exhaust pipe
Thanks Duncansport
A little test video. Should get a proper recorder and separate mics for turbo inlet and especially exhaust pipe
(09-10-2013, 11:37 PM)muuris If I'd do this again, I'd use dry sump (and propably OM606). That's what I would recommend for anyone putting OM60x into a Jeep, it would give so much clearance and ensure a good lubrication.
The mileage was better in the beginning, but since I got power and did the lift plus big tires plus small turbine housing it's gotten worse.. it was over 27mpg at best, now it's between 19-21mpg with my very accelerator-happy driving style.
For comparison, I did between 13 and 21mpg with Jeep engine, half the power I now have, stock tires, no lift, no fun.
I have to agree with you on the dry sump. I am doing a 89 XJ with a 99 606, I think I may have talked to you over at Pirate 4x4. I had to extend the front end sheet metal to move the engine forward to clear the diff. and the steering. I still have to modify the sump to clear the steering.
It would be much easier to do a dry sump and much less work. Your build is first class! Nice to see some quality work.
(09-10-2013, 11:37 PM)muuris If I'd do this again, I'd use dry sump (and propably OM606). That's what I would recommend for anyone putting OM60x into a Jeep, it would give so much clearance and ensure a good lubrication.
The mileage was better in the beginning, but since I got power and did the lift plus big tires plus small turbine housing it's gotten worse.. it was over 27mpg at best, now it's between 19-21mpg with my very accelerator-happy driving style.
For comparison, I did between 13 and 21mpg with Jeep engine, half the power I now have, stock tires, no lift, no fun.
I have to agree with you on the dry sump. I am doing a 89 XJ with a 99 606, I think I may have talked to you over at Pirate 4x4. I had to extend the front end sheet metal to move the engine forward to clear the diff. and the steering. I still have to modify the sump to clear the steering.
It would be much easier to do a dry sump and much less work. Your build is first class! Nice to see some quality work.
im looking at installing my 605 into a mk2 mitsubishi shogun LWB and doing a compound setup using the original turbo as well as a turbo similar to an HX35 with a 12cm housing
Could i ask what set up your are going to run, or is it a secret for now
I plan on using 2" pipe for the manifold with a 50mm external wastegate from the manifold to the second turbo.
Would you see an issue with back pressure with the above settings?
Im not after huge power, just low end torque
The reason im asking you is you seem to have had several variants of OM powered vehicles.
Cheers
Bortha
hi Muuris
im looking at installing my 605 into a mk2 mitsubishi shogun LWB and doing a compound setup using the original turbo as well as a turbo similar to an HX35 with a 12cm housing
Could i ask what set up your are going to run, or is it a secret for now
I plan on using 2" pipe for the manifold with a 50mm external wastegate from the manifold to the second turbo.
Would you see an issue with back pressure with the above settings?
Im not after huge power, just low end torque
The reason im asking you is you seem to have had several variants of OM powered vehicles.
Cheers
Bortha
I looked at your project while I was building mine. Extending the front end wouldn't be legal here, and I wanted the best possible weight distribution. But 606 would have been better still..
Btw, I checked the speedo and trip error, seems that the mileage is a bit better than I thought, around 23mpg now. How is yours doing?
bigbortha,
2" pipe for the manifold sounds unnecessarily large, since you aren't for the huge power. I'd use i.e. 42mm id pipe.
If you're doing a compound setup, the wastegate should be ok but choosing the two matching turbos isn't easy. I can't help you there, I have no experience in practice. It will easily end up with too high backpressure. Both turbos have to be operating at the sweet spot, that means you'll got to have at least 3bar boost.
I'm building a sequential setup functionally similar to twin turbo MB 250cdi. The smaller turbo will be GT2260v and it will be bypassed on both the compressor and turbine sides on full boost. Compressor side bypass with Volvo Penta valve and turbine with the flap in manifold. My current Schwitzer can do 2,5bar boost on 5600rpm with a very good efficiency, so I don't need to turbos for max power. The big turbine housing should give low egp.
My idea is that when it's on full power, it should be functionally just like a single big turbo, for max power with given parts. The low end may not be optimal, but I think the small turbo will spool quick enough with second class pipings as well
Made some parts yesterday for both the Jeep and MB C250td (the second of which will be having GT2359v fitted). I'm becoming distressed, both engine rooms are getting too small.. Got to take some pics, this is getting boring without.
zeeman,
I looked at your project while I was building mine. Extending the front end wouldn't be legal here, and I wanted the best possible weight distribution. But 606 would have been better still..
Btw, I checked the speedo and trip error, seems that the mileage is a bit better than I thought, around 23mpg now. How is yours doing?
bigbortha,
2" pipe for the manifold sounds unnecessarily large, since you aren't for the huge power. I'd use i.e. 42mm id pipe.
If you're doing a compound setup, the wastegate should be ok but choosing the two matching turbos isn't easy. I can't help you there, I have no experience in practice. It will easily end up with too high backpressure. Both turbos have to be operating at the sweet spot, that means you'll got to have at least 3bar boost.
I'm building a sequential setup functionally similar to twin turbo MB 250cdi. The smaller turbo will be GT2260v and it will be bypassed on both the compressor and turbine sides on full boost. Compressor side bypass with Volvo Penta valve and turbine with the flap in manifold. My current Schwitzer can do 2,5bar boost on 5600rpm with a very good efficiency, so I don't need to turbos for max power. The big turbine housing should give low egp.
My idea is that when it's on full power, it should be functionally just like a single big turbo, for max power with given parts. The low end may not be optimal, but I think the small turbo will spool quick enough with second class pipings as well
Made some parts yesterday for both the Jeep and MB C250td (the second of which will be having GT2359v fitted). I'm becoming distressed, both engine rooms are getting too small.. Got to take some pics, this is getting boring without.
I appreciate what you say regarding needing to match turbos and finding the 'sweet spot' or it will be a world of hurt.
i was just concerned that the turbo i have is going to be very laggy on a 605.
thanks again Muuris
Thanks Muuris, the reason i was planning on using the 2" (48mm id) for the manifold was i was given 12 stainless bends, along with a healthy supply of 3" bends and straight pipe for an exhaust
I appreciate what you say regarding needing to match turbos and finding the 'sweet spot' or it will be a world of hurt.
i was just concerned that the turbo i have is going to be very laggy on a 605.
thanks again Muuris
![[Image: th_tt0.jpg]](http://muuris.webs.com/jeep/tt0.jpg)
Boost pipes between the turbos. There's a 70mm flap on the pipe from S200 to cooler, which bypasses 2260v compressor.
![[Image: th_tt_.jpg]](http://muuris.webs.com/jeep/tt_.jpg)
Adjustments in progress (related to vnt control). Doesn't respond well right now, but it's been better earlier with temporary pipings so we'll see..
Exhaust dividing flap. When closed, all exhaust go through 2260v to S200. When open, straight to S200.
Boost pipes between the turbos. There's a 70mm flap on the pipe from S200 to cooler, which bypasses 2260v compressor.
Adjustments in progress (related to vnt control). Doesn't respond well right now, but it's been better earlier with temporary pipings so we'll see..
Next I changed ip to 8mm -- oh boy, the grunt on upper revs. Pulls hard to 6000rpm. Tried with A/R 1.0 housing but emp was only some 0,3bars lower than it is with #9 housing at top end.. So back to #9. Now 2,2bar boost and 2,3bar emp. Clocked 6,0sec 0-62mph with sluggish 2nd gear change.. The tranny doesn't like fast shifting, automatic would be nice, but don't want to put much effort or money on that, as current is mostly ok and seems to hold up, as well as the clutch.
I've been and will be busy with my house renovation for a while, but shorter gearing and second charger are unavoidable.
Been a while since last update.. Had problems with tt setup, vnt didn't respond well, and one day it spat 1,5l of engine oil into cooler and intake manifold. Luckily I wasn't on full throttle when I noticed this and didn't cook the engine. Went back to safe single Schwitzer setup, but I'm not giving up on twin charging.. Only for now.
Next I changed ip to 8mm -- oh boy, the grunt on upper revs. Pulls hard to 6000rpm. Tried with A/R 1.0 housing but emp was only some 0,3bars lower than it is with #9 housing at top end.. So back to #9. Now 2,2bar boost and 2,3bar emp. Clocked 6,0sec 0-62mph with sluggish 2nd gear change.. The tranny doesn't like fast shifting, automatic would be nice, but don't want to put much effort or money on that, as current is mostly ok and seems to hold up, as well as the clutch.
I've been and will be busy with my house renovation for a while, but shorter gearing and second charger are unavoidable.
![[Image: tsd.jpg]](http://muuris.webs.com/jeep/tsd.jpg)
Are you considering a supercharger for the low end?
Nice work!
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
What was keeping the variable turbo from working?
Are you considering a supercharger for the low end?
Nice work!
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
I wouldn't say I'm considering a supercharger since it is there now. Turbo precompresses air for sc and when it hits good boost, the sc is bypassed. First tests showed 1bar@2000 and 2bar@2700 with close-to-no smoke, hoping to get it even better by adjustments.
The vnt turbo had some very slight damage on the compressor, and apparently there was something wrong with it's lubrication.
I wouldn't say I'm considering a supercharger since it is there now. Turbo precompresses air for sc and when it hits good boost, the sc is bypassed. First tests showed 1bar@2000 and 2bar@2700 with close-to-no smoke, hoping to get it even better by adjustments.
If shifting up before hitting 3300rpm on full throttle, the turbo goes into surge. No wonder, since it's been spooling up right on the surge line area on it's own, now the supercharger makes it spool faster and moves operation point right on the map... gotta keep it floored for longer or get a bypass.
Video coming up soon, and I guess it would be time for a dyno session next year..
I made some minor changes, now running a wastegate actuator instead of the pneumatic cylinder for the throttle flap control. It was basically on-off, now it's controlling boost so that on part throttle there's constant 0,3bar on the intake manifold until turbo alone produces more. On very light load, supercharger runs on PR 1,3 and turbo is naturally at 1,0. On more throttle, the load is split in some ratio, turbo gaining more workload and sc running less, this can also be heard from the noise (sc whine goes down as turbo spools), until flap is open and turbo is making PR 1,3 (0,3bar on manifold) or more. At about half throttle there's a microswitch, which changes the pressure control circuit slightly and flap remains closed until about 2bar boost on manifold, after which turbo is on it's own.
If shifting up before hitting 3300rpm on full throttle, the turbo goes into surge. No wonder, since it's been spooling up right on the surge line area on it's own, now the supercharger makes it spool faster and moves operation point right on the map... gotta keep it floored for longer or get a bypass.
Video coming up soon, and I guess it would be time for a dyno session next year..
Nice build!
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