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606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-20-2012
Hi all,
I am tinkering with the boost and the electronics are buggering me a little, but worse, I am told the back pressure are going to kill the turbo and maybe the engine
I wasn't really aware of that, that the gases have to go through the teeny wheel, and then the pressure must be immense as the more boost, the more fuel, the bigger the bang I guess...I found out that if I lock( totally shut off) the wategate, I can go up to 26 PSI and the car is more responsive, until the ECU freak out and kill the boost for about a second ( on the highway at a continuous trashing).
Then its 24 ish or 26 ( depend on the load I guess?) , killed for about a second at 17 and back again at 24...
A bit yo-yo style...
I was also told that the ECU would freak out if I was to cruise along on the highway as the ECU would not be able to open the wategate, and indeed, it happened...
The engine needed to be turn off and restarted to reset it.
Now, after this explanation, I was wondering about the killer back pressure. There is a possibility to re-direct the gases from the EGR to the ground ( I have the electronic EGR delete-thank you Kartek)), this would definitely ease the deadly back pressure, but,
1:would that be leaving enough pressure for the turbo to spin? The EGG tube id about 12 mm I think, quiet large. But I could restrict it.
2: would that be enough to restrict the back pressure to a safe level?
3:If I do that and the manifold pressure is 26 PSI, would that be OK then as the back pressure should be less? Or the turbo would be dead in no time no matter what as its spooling way too high?
4: is there a pressure valve that would be heat resistant enough to withstand the heat of the gases, and that I could install to open at a certain pressure and what pressure should it be?
Thank you
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 10-20-2012
You do not need 26psi. Pretty sure there's a way to get the responsiveness you got at a lower pressure. I would suggest boost controller that lets you set the pressure where you want it.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-20-2012
Hi aaa,
What do you mean by boost controller?
I think the car is more responsive as the wastegate is shut tight, then when I press the pedal, there is no lag of the vacuumed acuator to shut the wastegate and then get the boost.
This vacuumed acuator can be slow by the time it react as the pressure is building forcing the wastegate open and the transducer try to suck the air out to shut it... Its a pain...
The bugger is the electronics as they are set up to do a smooth take off ( from what I can gather), not "bang, here is power"... Then yes, if there is a boost controller I could get that would be nice, but I think its only possible via re-map which is costly?
The thing also is that to get 26 PSI the pump must be injecting a lot of fuel, then in theory I should have more power? The higher the boost without upgrading the turbo mean more fuel injected? Or I got it totally wrong?
Thank you
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-20-2012
(10-20-2012, 12:49 PM)Olivier Hi aaa,
What do you mean by boost controller?
I think the car is more responsive as the wastegate is shut tight, then when I press the pedal, there is no lag of the vacuumed acuator to shut the wastegate and then get the boost.
This vacuumed acuator can be slow by the time it react as the pressure is building forcing the wastegate open and the transducer try to suck the air out to shut it... Its a pain...
The bugger is the electronics as they are set up to do a smooth take off ( from what I can gather), not "bang, here is power"... Then yes, if there is a boost controller I could get that would be nice, but I think its only possible via re-map which is costly?
The thing also is that to get 26 PSI the pump must be injecting a lot of fuel, then in theory I should have more power? The higher the boost without upgrading the turbo mean more fuel injected? Or I got it totally wrong?
Thank you
Olivier
It doesn't go like that. More boost doesn't make any sense if you don't get more fuel. Evry mod is cheap and easy way to get more fuel. When you do that, you can put boost controller in and make more power. With that engine you have to put boost controller to that hose between the map-sensor and intake manifold. That controller bleeds part of pressure to air so map sensor thinks that there isn't so much pressure and lets wastegate stay shut longer.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-20-2012
Thank you.
The thing is that I do get more boost shutting the wastegate as the ECU is injecting more fuel, or as much fuel as it can to keep up with the air intake. If it was only air, I wouldn't have any boost? No?
I can trick the ECU at the boost sensor with a resistor, to fooled it saying I got less boost then actually there is, but to my understanding, if I fool the ECU telling it that there is not as much boost as actually there is, it will not inject enough fuel and I could run lean, damaging the engine running too hot?
If I got 26PSI shutting of the wastegate its not only because there is no escape for the gases, this is also because the ECU is doing its best to compensate the fuel/ air mixture by injecting as much fuel as possible therefore boosting the boost. Or did I get this wrong too?
Cheers.
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 10-20-2012
The ECU does not inject more fuel than it is programmed to. The pump is also physically unable to pump much more fuel than it usually does.
Fuel mixture does not matter on a diesel. Lean is just lack of power, and rich is just annoying smoke. The engine will not be damaged by that. And the ECU does not run a feedback loop to control it, since it's so unimportant.
A boost controller is a valve usually used with a pressure operated wastegate, which is closed by default.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - mantahead - 10-20-2012
hi,
any bets on how long this standard turbo is going to last? 26psi?
surely this is a time bomb.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-20-2012
(10-20-2012, 03:20 PM)aaa The ECU does not inject more fuel than it is programmed to. The pump is also physically unable to pump much more fuel than it usually does.
Fuel mixture does not matter on a diesel. Lean is just lack of power, and rich is just annoying smoke. The engine will not be damaged by that. And the ECU does not run a feedback loop to control it, since it's so unimportant.
A boost controller is a valve usually used with a pressure operated wastegate, which is closed by default.
Oh Dear, I am now more then ever more confused...
To make thing strait:
when the wastegate is shut,
at 25 psi I have no smoke/ the car is still pushing up the revs( no lack of power) , I have still boost going up to 26 and still no smoke etc...making me think the mixture is OK.
then, is the ECU injecting enough fuel to sustain this or is it me thinking wrong?
Even if its only programmed to inject what ever it can, if I got up to 26 psi, is this mean I got enough fuel going on the pods to create the boost?( that was mt understanding, but I know so little then I don't know anymore...) or this is something else?
Cheers.
Olivier
(10-20-2012, 04:12 PM)mantahead hi,
any bets on how long this standard turbo is going to last? 26psi?
surely this is a time bomb.
Since I had an understanding of what was going on, as you told about the back pressure(( Thank you very much
) I have not run it over 20 PSI... ( you see, I listen) But I am still wondering, can this wee turbo put the PSI to the limits ( 26) and be OK with a bypass from the gases via the EGR to clear some of the backpressure... Something let say, a wee different
Thank you
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 10-20-2012
There is no mixture... boost generation does not directly relate to the fuel injected, if you rev the engine up then that's plenty of exhaust to spin that little turbo and bring the boost up. Leanness will not result in a lack of power in a diesel, there can be way more air than fuel it'll still generate power.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-20-2012
Not really.
If I floor the pedal at a stop, on park, there is no boost as there is no load.
If I floor the pedal on the highway I god a lower gear, higher revs and a bit more boost,
If I floor the pedal on a hill even at low rev, I got massive boost due to the load.
This is my understanding so far. Then to get boost, you need fuel. No fuel, no boost.
But the more I am learning, the more I get a wee confused and the more I want to have a mechanic pump to play as much as I want and no electronic that are buggering me...
Cheers
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-21-2012
(10-20-2012, 12:31 PM)aaa You do not need 26psi. Pretty sure there's a way to get the responsiveness you got at a lower pressure. I would suggest boost controller that lets you set the pressure where you want it.
Hi aaa,
By boost controller, do you mean a dump valvle?
Cheers.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 10-21-2012
No, a boost controller attaches to a pressure operated wastegate actuator's pressure hose and regulates when it opens. Alternatively the wastegate itself could be adjustable, some of them are difficult to adjust though.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-21-2012
(10-21-2012, 10:36 AM)aaa No, a boost controller attaches to a pressure operated wastegate actuator's pressure hose and regulates when it opens. Alternatively the wastegate itself could be adjustable, some of them are difficult to adjust though.
Thank you for that, but it won't work until I do a re-map as if I shut off the wastegate and get it to open at what ever I fancy with a manual valvle, the ECU will freak out if it cannot open it at cruising speed on the highway or after a good trash...
I was thinking of putting a dump valve at about 18+ psi where the MAT is but the same thing will happen, the ECU will freak out as it want to open the wastegate but its not happening on its own terms...
This is my understanding anyway...
Any input on that would be great
Also the big question, is the turbo OK at very high PSI if I found a way to decrease the bakpressure, or it'll blow anyhow?
Thank you
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 10-21-2012
Hardwire the boost sensor to the throttle position sensor somehow. Where cruising pedal = whatever boost it wants. Or maybe it could just be a switch or relay that hops between cruising boost and full boost depending on pedal position.
Or maybe you can plumb a vacuum reservoir into the stock actuator for faster response from it.
Pretty sure you are overspinning the turbo that way. Looking at the map for the k14, at 1.8bar and 4700rpm you are somewhere between 0.15-0.19 cubic meters per second, over 120k rpm for the turbo. Seems liable to fall apart. If you are curious you can install an intake temp sensor and calculate where you are on the map better based on how hot it gets.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Secondaries - 10-21-2012
(10-20-2012, 05:06 PM)Olivier Not really.
If I floor the pedal at a stop, on park, there is no boost as there is no load.
If I floor the pedal on the highway I god a lower gear, higher revs and a bit more boost,
If I floor the pedal on a hill even at low rev, I got massive boost due to the load.
This is my understanding so far. Then to get boost, you need fuel. No fuel, no boost.
But the more I am learning, the more I get a wee confused and the more I want to have a mechanic pump to play as much as I want and no electronic that are buggering me...
Cheers
Olivier
I think you are still misunderstanding how boost works. When a turbo is pressuring 26psi, your pump won't magically supply 26psi worth of fuel. Maybe a coupe psi over stock would be beneficial, but only until you see no black smoke. As had been said, super lean (which your engine is no doubt at 26psi) won't do damage to the motor but it is using excess power to compress the excess air, and you aren't doing any favors for your poor stock turbo either.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - mantahead - 10-22-2012
hi,
as long as the standard boost control valve is wired up it will not cause you a problem, you can then fit boost controller.
I dyno 368bhp with standard ecu and as long as i kept the standard valve, just blocked the pipe off that went to the wastegate, the ecu was ok.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-22-2012
Thank you very much for the info and to the great people that have the patience to bare with me on this and all my questions
The stock turbo is a no go then, better leave it alone...
Matanhead, you got 368 just with a bigger turbo, no remap, no bigger elements?
I might get a Scania Turbo, from a bus...
I think the writing on it were:
Garett 0.5 or Garett 5.
It had no wastegate.
The back wheel is big
This should stop the back-pressure been a bugger Any imput on this Scania turbo, would that be OK for the 606 stock? Or do I still need the whole thingy, Re-map and bigger elements?
Dunno what to do about the wastegate tho, might put a dump valve on the AIT..
Again thank you all
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-22-2012
(10-22-2012, 12:15 PM)Olivier Thank you very much for the info and to the great people that have the patience to bare with me on this and all my questions
The stock turbo is a no go then, better leave it alone...
Matanhead, you got 368 just with a bigger turbo, no remap, no bigger elements?
I might get a Scania Turbo, from a bus...
I think the writing on it were:
Garett 0.5 or Garett 5.
It had no wastegate.
The back wheel is big
Any imput on this Scania turbo, would that be OK for the 606 stock? Or do I still need the whole thingy, Re-map and bigger elements?
Dunno what to do about the wastegate tho, might put a dump valve on the AIT..
Again thank you all
368 with stock elements could be possible but everything must be really well sized and injection time is way too long. Torque won't be too big either.
You may not need a wastegate with that turbo and stock elements
I think it will spool up slowly and it can't make too much pressure. But anyway you have to make/buy new exhaust manifold for that turbo so you can put an external wastegate to it. Make good tube manifold where all the pipes are same lenght.
After driving for a while with that setup you may want to buy bigger elements and re-map your car for better performance.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-22-2012
(10-22-2012, 01:58 PM)Siekkinen 368 with stock elements could be possible but everything must be really well sized and injection time is way too long. Torque won't be too big either.
Is the 368 the Garett turbo?
I have advanced the timing injection already, would that help/ not?
(10-22-2012, 01:58 PM)Siekkinen You may not need a wastegate with that turbo and stock elements
Oh dear, you mean not enough boost
What can I do... I cannot win on a wee budget
(10-22-2012, 01:58 PM)Siekkinen But anyway you have to make/buy new exhaust manifold for that turbo so you can put an external wastegate to it. Make good tube manifold where all the pipes are same lenght.
Dunno how I'll do that?
(10-22-2012, 01:58 PM)Siekkinen After driving for a while with that setup you may want to buy bigger elements and re-map your car for better performance.
You mean after driving the slug...
What is wrong with this Turbo? To big and it need a lot of fuel to spool?
Would an Xh35 os the T4/T4 be alot better?
Cheers
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - mantahead - 10-22-2012
hi,
368bhp was with Toms 7.5mm elements. hx35, no wastegate and potentiometer on the pump wires.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-22-2012
Thank you
You had the pump re-done then. This seems to be the way, and not like me to start with only a turbo that came of a bus
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-22-2012
Is the 368 the Garett turbo?
I have advanced the timing injection already, would that help/ not?
-No, I ment horsepower
injection timing won't help cause when you increase a fuel amount, injection goes longer and longer. Bigger elements injects same amount faster and burning will be better. Oh dear, you mean not enough boost
What can I do... I cannot win on a wee budget
- With big turbine housing, big turbine wheel and too small elements you can't make much boost. On the other hand you don't need so much boost to burn all the fuel that those elements inject.
Dunno how I'll do that?
- Then you should buy one. I think that someone there makes those but in Finland is one good shop that makes them. http://www.kkdmotorsport.com/kauppa.php?k=1270679050 there. "Mersu" means mercedes
You mean after driving the slug...
-When you tune up your car, anything isn't enough
What is wrong with this Turbo? To big and it need a lot of fuel to spool?
Would an Xh35 os the T4/T4 be alot better?
Cheers
- Hx35 would be lot faster to spool up. It's a good choise for anything between 250-400 bhp.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-22-2012
Thank you for all the reply
Got it, Mersu:
http://www.kkdmotorsport.com/kauppa.php?t=1270712169&k=1270679050
Gosh, this is dear...
I asked those guys but they don't do the W210 606
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200SX-S14-S15-STAINLESS-STEEL-T3-T4-TOP-MOUNT-TURBO-MANIFOLD-W-WASTEGATE-FLANGE-/130778555151?item=130778555151&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123&nma=true&si=F3Q%2Firq7lc2OJgX2evsN5PezRk0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
good prices tho and Shinny
Is there anything I can do with this turbo then, or I just put it on a shelve and look at it sighing...
Is the Hx35 faster as smaller?
Cheers
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-22-2012
(10-22-2012, 03:47 PM)Olivier Thank you for all the reply
Got it, Mersu:
http://www.kkdmotorsport.com/kauppa.php?t=1270712169&k=1270679050
Gosh, this is dear...
I asked those guys but they don't do the W210 606
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200SX-S14-S15-STAINLESS-STEEL-T3-T4-TOP-MOUNT-TURBO-MANIFOLD-W-WASTEGATE-FLANGE-/130778555151?item=130778555151&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123&nma=true&si=F3Q%2Firq7lc2OJgX2evsN5PezRk0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
good prices tho and Shinny
Is there anything I can do with this turbo then, or I just put it on a shelve and look at it sighing...
Is the Hx35 faster as smaller?
Cheers
KKDmotorsports manifolds are really beautiful and high quality. That's the reason for high price.
Those cheap stainless manifolds won't last long. Maybe year or half and it cracks. But it's cheap though
and may last for a while if you are lucky. If they don't make manifold for 606 you can't even try your luck Of course you can give a chance for that turbo and try it. It could work fine but won't spool up fast. What do you mean by "faster as smaller"? I haven't spoken english whole of my life so I can't understand some things
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-22-2012
Thanks
English isn't my first language as well and I am sure I am confusing few with my writing
What I meant was, does the Hx35 got a smaller wheel that spin the turbo at the exhaust , then this is why its faster? Or its just build differently and more adapted then a Turbo from Bus
?I need to find another bus...
Even if the manifold last a year, at least I could try
but no, they don't even want me to do so 
is this what will happen if I manage to install the Garett? No spooling, or very little?
I cannot find anything of the 368 by the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqB-7csefVc
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Mark_M - 10-22-2012
Oliver, you might want to do some costings before you go getting too excited here as it sounds like you're on a tight budget. Unless you get your pump modified nothing is going to give you big power and to get the pump done is around a 1000 euros. So you have manifold, turbo, pump and remap along with a load of other bits and pieces. Being economical I can't see you doing it for under £2000 maybe £1500 if you're really economical or drop your HP goals.
If you head over to the garret website there is some really good info on how turbos work and how to size them along with reading the pressure graphs. Download the catalogue http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/productcatalog as the start of it has all the info. After reading that you will have a better understanding on why you need the proper sized turbo and stuff.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-22-2012
Hi Mark,
Thank you for that
I was expecting around £1500 indeed, but as I am in a really tight budget at the moment, hoping it'll get better in the future, the I am shopping to see what is needed /best, see how things work ( I thought for a long time the back pressure was at the end of the turbo- the back- and not before the turbo
sshhh, don't tell 
) and what can be done now for now, and cheap I thought the turbo was the biggest restriction, with the back pressure, small wheels and all, then hunted a big turbo, but I might have it too big to start
.but gosh I like the idea of a bus turbo I was planning on a manual pump too, not an EDC.
With a manual pump, there is no need for a remap I was told, woohoo!! Then good power and less electronic and cheaper
, but the electronics are looking like hard to bypass and all..then it seems its going to be an EDC after all if I decided on the pump and a remap Anyway, If I got the Scania turbo, this will give me something to do about the manifold
and from there we'll see what will happen.I saw somewhere someone using plumbing pipes to construct the manifold ( Heresy?) and it sound like something I could do on the cheap side and solid enough to start with, then from that I can move on
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-23-2012
(10-22-2012, 06:12 PM)Olivier I was planning on a manual pump too, not an EDC.
With a manual pump, there is no need for a remap I was told, woohoo!! Then good power and less electronic and cheaper
Anyway, If I got the Scania turbo, this will give me something to do about the manifold
I saw somewhere someone using plumbing pipes to construct the manifold ( Heresy?) and it sound like something I could do on the cheap side and solid enough to start with, then from that I can move on
Olivier
You don't need to worry about electronics if you got normal wastegate that works by pressure and mechanical injection pump. Only EDC light will shine but you can take the bulb off. Your car can't go to fault mode (or what is it in english)anymore. It really is a lot cheaper that way.
We use plumbing pipes here when we build manifolds. Professionals won't use them but for private people it is cheap and good material.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-23-2012
Thank you very much for that
There is hope on the cheaper side then...I was told the gearbox need a TPS? If its a wire pump, the TPS will be out?
Reckon it would still work?
Perhaps olefejer and its manual shift might help?
About the wastegate, what is the housing for it? The Turbo come with a large output that got a butterfly? valve in it.
When I get the Scania Turbo I'll put some picture of it, the piping and what I got
I am thinking of asking the owner for the exhaust manifold as well, its also a 6 pod on line, but a lot longer manifold , but it might be handy to have it to tinker with?
All the best
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-23-2012
(10-23-2012, 12:53 PM)Olivier Thank you very much for that
I was told the gearbox need a TPS? If its a wire pump, the TPS will be out?
Reckon it would still work?
Perhaps olefejer and its manual shift might help?
About the wastegate, what is the housing for it? The Turbo come with a large output that got a butterfly? valve in it.
When I get the Scania Turbo I'll put some picture of it, the piping and what I got
I am thinking of asking the owner for the exhaust manifold as well, its also a 6 pod on line, but a lot longer manifold , but it might be handy to have it to tinker with?
All the best
Olivier
I completely forgot gearbox
automatic tranny won't work without electric injection pump. Manual transmission or control box will fix that problem. What do you mean by wastegates housing? You could take that manifold and use it as a model or then you could use your imagination and begin to build one from nothing
but you have to bolt it to cylinderhead couple times to make sure that it fits. It's not nice if you spend many hours making it and then it won't fit cause thermostat housing is on the way
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-23-2012
Hi Siekkinen and thank you for the output/ inputs...
Hummm... Then its an electronic pump, with the remap and all because of the gearbox
The Scania Bus manifold it indeed larger/ wider and all... But indeed might/ could help? If it can be shorten and bolted in that would be even better
About the wastegate housing, I don't know how to make one as this one has none
and it was still attached to a large pipe going though the exhaust and I was planning on using it to connect the turbo to the Cat... Is there any "attachments that would bolt into this particular turbo with a wastegate already build? Again I'll send some pictures of the turbo on Thursday if I got it.
Does anyone think a dump valve on the manifold instead of a wastegate on the exhaust is also a practical idea? Might be alot easier...
Thank you
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-23-2012
(10-23-2012, 01:30 PM)Olivier Hi Siekkinen and thank you for the output/ inputs...
Hummm... Then its an electronic pump, with the remap and all because of the gearbox
The Scania Bus manifold it indeed larger/ wider and all... But indeed might/ could help? If it can be shorten and bolted in that would be even better
About the wastegate housing, I don't know how to make one as this one has none
Is there any "attachments that would bolt into this particular turbo with a wastegate already build? Again I'll send some pictures of the turbo on Thursday if I got it.
Does anyone think a dump valve on the manifold instead of a wastegate on the exhaust is also a practical idea? Might be alot easier...
Thank you
Olivier
That manifold can't work well on that engine. http://viewitem.eim.ebay.fi/MR2-T3T4-TURBO-ADAPTER-FLANGE-3S-GTE/200531710553/item that is one easy way to attach wastegate. Dumb valve is designed to let all pressure out. So with dumb, driving will be jerky and bad anyway.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-23-2012
Thank you very much
Its in the UK too, easy to contact them.
What is my Scania Turbo then, is it a T3/T4 or a 638 or they all the same?
Is this the wastegate needed? It says 38mm. From the same seller too
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38MM-WASTEGATE-EVO-S13-S14-STI-WRX-IMPREZA-SKYLINE-RED-/400115238090?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d28ba04ca
Where would the gases flow?
I'll call them tomorrow see what they say
All the best
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-23-2012
(10-23-2012, 02:17 PM)Olivier Thank you very much
Its in the UK too, easy to contact them.
What is my Scania Turbo then, is it a T3/T4 or a 638 or they all the same?
Is this the wastegate needed? It says 38mm. From the same seller too
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38MM-WASTEGATE-EVO-S13-S14-STI-WRX-IMPREZA-SKYLINE-RED-/400115238090?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d28ba04ca
Where would the gases flow?
I'll call them tomorrow see what they say
All the best
Olivier
I can't say what your turbo is. It should read somewhere on it. a 38mm wastegate is quite small but still a lot bigger than turbos own usually is. It's big enough for a 6mm elements and works fine with a 7mm though. It should work fine at least to 400 bhp
you have to make an exhaust pipe for the wastegate. You can put it into cars own exhaust pipe or just to outer air. But if you put it to outer air, it makes some noise when it opens and messes up your engine room with black smoke
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-23-2012
Actually, I don't do black smoke, I run the car on vegetable oil
I can smell tho Maybe I'll get more of a chippy scent then if the exhaust come out
This sound a bit like the EGR set up I was thinking off with the gases coming out to ease the back pressure
Thank you for all the inputs
Great to know what the options are .
It'll be easier on Thursday if I got the turbo on front of me and send out some pictures
From what I recall, the exhaust flange was really big, well, compare to the wee one on the car
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 10-23-2012
(10-23-2012, 03:07 PM)Olivier Actually, I don't do black smoke, I run the car on vegetable oil
Maybe I'll get more of a chippy scent then if the exhaust come out
This sound a bit like the EGR set up I was thinking off with the gases coming out to ease the back pressure
Thank you for all the inputs
Great to know what the options are .
It'll be easier on Thursday if I got the turbo on front of me and send out some pictures
From what I recall, the exhaust flange was really big, well, compare to the wee one on the car
Olivier
Do you really use vegetable oil as a fuel?
I thought that it's just a myth. Actually it doesn't matter do you put wastegates pipe to air or to exhaust pipe. I mean it doesn't make more back pressure if it's in the exhaust pipe. But it must be as far as possible from the turbo. Just put it to air cause it's so much easier
And by the way there won't be much back pressure with that turbo. Turbine housing is usually so big in trucks turbo.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-23-2012
I do use Vegetable oil
Cheap as chips...
Run OK tho
At the moment its a mixed of WVO ( 90+%) , missfuel ( more diesel then petrol) and a squirt of WD40, Heresy I know
It'll be better back to the exhaust in the cat, the vegetable oil doesn't smell much with a cat
, without its a different story...This is it, the turbine housing on the exhaust side was looking huge... EEK! Oh dear
To be continued
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-25-2012
Its Big
Cannot see what it is tho, its a Garrett but no idea what model?
Cheers
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 10-30-2012
Got the turbo type
its a Garrett TO4E06 for Scania
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/search.php?input=466616-0003&btnH=search&tipo=aplicaciones_referencia
From a 9 liters engine
Oh dear...
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Alastair E - 10-31-2012
(10-30-2012, 08:05 AM)Olivier Got the turbo type
its a Garrett TO4E06 for Scania
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/search.php?input=466616-0003&btnH=search&tipo=aplicaciones_referencia
From a 9 liters engine
Oh dear...
Olivier--
Think of it this way. That 9L Scania motor prob tops out at say, 3K revs and runs that turbo correctly
Your 606 is only 3 litres--But can turn at say, 6K, the turbo will 'see' the same sorta range of gas-flows--Ok a bit lower but you get the idea....
Its maybe a bit big and almost definitely the wrong 'trim' for what you want, will be very laggy but probably work with the right elements and manifolds...
HX35 be a much better choice, a 'Superturbo equivalent' from KKD trimmed up for the 606 would be the best choice...
HX40 prob be a bit big for everyday use, then again they are used....
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 11-01-2012
Funny you said this as today I put the turbo at the end of the exhaust pipes, not properly sealed as exhaust gases were going everywhere, but I was wondering if it'll spool a little at idle, and it did
OK, only a really really slow spooling, but its turning at idle, then there might be some hope...
Not sure tho, the manifold seems to be a bugger. I would love just to try it to see how it goes.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 11-01-2012
Eh turning at idle does not indicate spooling.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Mark_M - 11-01-2012
I think you might be lucky to get that to spool for christmas to be honest. A rough calculation has you moving 2 thirds of the gasses than on the scania moving the revs up obviously. Moving the figures around I predict it to start spooling somewhere around 3k-3.5k. If its for racing then you might could put up with it but on the street it will be pretty horrible I think. It might not even hold pressure since the original output of the scania is only 221 bhp so it can move air but it isnt expected to pressurise by much.
If your going to have to make a manifold I think you would be better going a proven route than something on paper anyway doesn't work very well.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 11-01-2012
Oh...
I was happy with that are seen the video link I posted above on post #25, his turbo is not turning at all at idle and its properly mounted... Then I thought, hey, at least mine it turning a bit only with the exhaust blow and at idle...
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 11-07-2012
(10-20-2012, 11:42 AM)Olivier I found out that if I lock( totally shut off) the wategate, I can go up to 26 PSI and the car is more responsive, until the ECU freak out and kill the boost for about a second ( on the highway at a continuous trashing).
Then its 24 ish or 26 ( depend on the load I guess?) , killed for about a second at 17 and back again at 24...
A bit yo-yo style...
Hi All,
Just had a though about the above quote. Would it be that the pump run out of fuel and this is why the boost lowered, and not the ECU shutting off the fuel?
As the pump need to inject a lot of fuel to maintain 24 plus PSI, instead of the 15 stock?
Just wondering
Cheers.
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 11-07-2012
Sudden changes in boost would point to the ecu doing something.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 11-07-2012
Thank you aaa, as some were saying that if the transducer was connected the ECU should be OK, I thought the pump was having difficulty delivering all the fuel especially as it happen between 24 and 26 PSI, not as a set number, it varied, I think depending on the load ( down hill or up hill) and I guess the more load the more fuel needed?
Cheers
Olivier
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - aaa - 11-07-2012
I would think fuel starvation would be more gradual and not jump suddenly. Keep in mind that's there are two pumps, the lift pump on the side of the main pump is what supplies fuel to the rest of the pump, sometimes the lift pump can't keep up with rest of the pump. It'd be easy to plumb a pressure gauge between the two though.
Of course I still don't think it's actually delivering as much fuel as you think
.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Siekkinen - 11-07-2012
That ip doesn't run out of fuel with a stock turbo. Ecu just shuts off the fuel.
RE: 606 Teeny turbo and back pressure... - Olivier - 11-08-2012
Thanks toy both
The lift pump should be done next week. Waiting on the parts