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+--- Thread: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine (/showthread.php?tid=3394)
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 11-10-2012
GTG At dieselmeken workshop today 20121110
http://www.facebook.com/dieselmeken#!/media/set/?set=a.272912059477965.43841.200188306750341&type=1
Development goes on, this is phase 2, 7,5mm performance maxed out
OBS Element on cyl 5 was changed, bad quality.
One glad dieseltech.
One 7,5mm testpump, this one goes up in dyno soon. Result will be shown.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - winmutt - 11-10-2012
I predict the engine cant take it!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-10-2012
(11-10-2012, 01:58 PM)winmutt I predict the engine cant take it!
Hoho, it's my engine
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 11-10-2012
hi,
is that pump running on steroids?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-11-2012
(11-10-2012, 03:36 PM)mantahead hi,
is that pump running on steroids?
Yes, we filled it with some Norwegian steroids;D I will fit this pump one of the comming days!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Ksteen2 - 11-12-2012
This will be awesome EDH, But you need a bigger turbo
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - raidaru - 11-12-2012
HX55 , propane injection, water/metanol injection for lower EGT, all internals changed, and you'll have a 1000 hp/1500nm dyno engine, as in the car......ther's no tranny who'd hold that
)) GL brah and waiting for the results these days
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-13-2012
A little testdrive before I changed to better pump
This is with 225 tyres...RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Ksteen2 - 11-15-2012
when are you giong to post a new film with new pump?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 09:05 AM)Ksteen2 when are you giong to post a new film with new pump?
My last exam is 3.des, so after that I will mount the intake and compressor! I will the dyno the car with 140cc, 180cc and maybe 210cc if the turbo can supply enough air
(I think it can handle 180cc, but not 210cc..) After the dyno session, the air setup will be changed...Compressor will be removed and compound setup will be built;D
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 10:44 AM)m2rkz I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
there is no such thing as "the motor gets to much fuel", you simply need more air
And this sounds like a fuelfeed problem! Have you changed the fuel lines and mounted big feed pump?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 11:02 AM)EDH_Performance(11-15-2012, 10:44 AM)m2rkz I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
there is no such thing as "the motor gets to much fuel", you simply need more air
And this sounds like a fuelfeed problem! Have you changed the fuel lines and mounted big feed pump?
3500grm and there is enough air and then when more and more grm then the engine is like dieing. Logic is than if more grm then more air.
but yes. Fule line and feed pump is not installed.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
Are you running stock feed pump? (The one that sits on the pump)
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
If dieselmeken didn't do with this anythind then yes. Where I can get better feed pump?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 11:17 AM)m2rkz If dieselmeken didn't do with this anythind then yes. Where I can get better feed pump?
I am very impressed that the stock fuelfeedpump made 194kw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You need big feedpump and atleast 10mm fuel lines ALL the way into the pump! Remove the stock fuel heater, and run the lines directly from feedpump to dieselpump...Maybe you need to uppgrade banjobolt on dieselpump for enough flow! Rememeber a good highflow dieselfilter
Holley makes a good feedpump or you can use the bosch 044 pump!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - erling66 - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 10:44 AM)m2rkz I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
Take some photos of your engine setup, then it is easier to give you some advise.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 11:22 AM)EDH_Performance(11-15-2012, 11:17 AM)m2rkz If dieselmeken didn't do with this anythind then yes. Where I can get better feed pump?
I am very impressed that the stock fuelfeedpump made 194kw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You need big feedpump and atleast 10mm fuel lines ALL the way into the pump! Remove the stock fuel heater, and run the lines directly from feedpump to dieselpump...Maybe you need to uppgrade banjobolt on dieselpump for enough flow! Rememeber a good highflow dieselfilter
Holley makes a good feedpump or you can use the bosch 044 pump!
Do you have any pictures of installing bigger feed pump?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 12:09 PM)m2rkz(11-15-2012, 11:22 AM)EDH_Performance(11-15-2012, 11:17 AM)m2rkz If dieselmeken didn't do with this anythind then yes. Where I can get better feed pump?
I am very impressed that the stock fuelfeedpump made 194kw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You need big feedpump and atleast 10mm fuel lines ALL the way into the pump! Remove the stock fuel heater, and run the lines directly from feedpump to dieselpump...Maybe you need to uppgrade banjobolt on dieselpump for enough flow! Rememeber a good highflow dieselfilter
Holley makes a good feedpump or you can use the bosch 044 pump!
Do you have any pictures of installing bigger feed pump?
No, i don`t have
But this is not hard to do, just mount one or two 044 pumps under the car (or where if fits the best) and buy some 10mm copper/pvc tubes and clamp them under the car from fuelpump and forwrd to the engine
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 11:24 AM)erling66(11-15-2012, 10:44 AM)m2rkz I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
Take some photos of your engine setup, then it is easier to give you some advise.
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=346084165488355&set=a.346083522155086.79823.283288528434586&type=1&theater
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=346084698821635&set=pb.283288528434586.-2207520000.1352999233&type=3&theater
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=346084595488312&set=pb.283288528434586.-2207520000.1352999233&type=3&theater
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=346084535488318&set=pb.283288528434586.-2207520000.1352999233&type=3&theater
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=346084382155000&set=pb.283288528434586.-2207520000.1352999233&type=3&theater
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
impressive build
How many cc is your pump giving?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
in winter we gonna add eaton m62 with electronic clutch too to get 1 bar pressure already from 2000grm. Do you think is it good idea?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 12:21 PM)m2rkz in winter we gonna add eaton m62 with electronic clutch too to get 1 bar pressure already from 2000grm. Do you think is it good idea?
No, atleast a m90...Best would be m112!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
m62 is with electronic clutch and then if more than 2000grm it turns off...
m90 and m112 is without clutch and it's not good.
m62 witch clutch is quite cheap too and it is ok for 1 bar in 2000grm.
one more question.
But original feed pump is installed to dieselpump. And between them is gasket. Then I must remove the origanal feedpump or I just install one more fuelpump under the car?
(11-15-2012, 12:21 PM)EDH_Performance impressive build
I don't know. I order it in February. I think I will send the pump back and then dieselmeken test it again.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Savitas - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 12:32 PM)m2rkz m62 is with electronic clutch and then if more than 2000grm it turns off...
m90 and m112 is without clutch and it's not good.
m62 witch clutch is quite cheap too and it is ok for 1 bar in 2000grm.
one more question.
But original feed pump is installed to dieselpump. And between them is gasket. Then I must remove the origanal feedpump or I just install one more fuelpump under the car?
(11-15-2012, 12:21 PM)EDH_Performance impressive build
I don't know. I order it in February. I think I will send the pump back and then dieselmeken test it again.
What about IP timing? Have you tried to change it a few degrees?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 02:29 PM)Savitas(11-15-2012, 12:32 PM)m2rkz m62 is with electronic clutch and then if more than 2000grm it turns off...
m90 and m112 is without clutch and it's not good.
m62 witch clutch is quite cheap too and it is ok for 1 bar in 2000grm.
one more question.
But original feed pump is installed to dieselpump. And between them is gasket. Then I must remove the origanal feedpump or I just install one more fuelpump under the car?
(11-15-2012, 12:21 PM)EDH_Performance impressive build
I don't know. I order it in February. I think I will send the pump back and then dieselmeken test it again.
What about IP timing? Have you tried to change it a few degrees?
yes. but still same results.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 12:21 PM)EDH_Performance impressive buildIts à 140cc pump. Its good for 400+ hp
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-15-2012
I have tried a 140cc pump form dieselmeken, with just stock feed pump! The car behaved just as you descibe it! Pulling fine at low rpm, but not at high
Uppgrade feedpump and your problem is solved;p
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 04:13 PM)EDH_Performance I have tried a 140cc pump form dieselmeken, with just stock feed pump! The car behaved just as you descibe it! Pulling fine at low rpm, but not at high
I think I want 180cc pump. I hope diselmeken will do me a good price.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - jeemu - 11-15-2012
Max cc isint all about it
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 04:28 PM)jeemu Max cc isint all about it
You think 140cc is good enough for exampe 550hp with this settings? If I will put better feed pump and 10mm hoses and better fuelfilter?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - erling66 - 11-16-2012
Hi m2rkz.
Nice engine
But I am not so sure about your intake manifold
; maybe there is some horsepower to gain from making a manifold similar to what Jeemu has?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-16-2012
(11-16-2012, 04:17 AM)erling66 Hi m2rkz.
Nice engine
any pictures of that intake?
And why is original om603 diesel filter bad?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-16-2012
(11-16-2012, 07:00 AM)m2rkz(11-16-2012, 04:17 AM)erling66 Hi m2rkz.
Nice engine
any pictures of that intake?
And why is original om603 diesel filter bad?
stock filter housing has small banjo and connectings, all has to be atleast 10mm.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - erling66 - 11-16-2012
(11-16-2012, 07:00 AM)m2rkz(11-16-2012, 04:17 AM)erling66 Hi m2rkz.
Nice engine
any pictures of that intake?
And why is original om603 diesel filter bad?
You will find some photos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8E6bGyj_hI
The 603 filter is designed for 150hp. I guess your plan is to have a few more?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - jeemu - 11-16-2012
(11-15-2012, 04:59 PM)m2rkz7mm 140cc cant get same power than 8mm 140cc(11-15-2012, 04:28 PM)jeemu Max cc isint all about it
You think 140cc is good enough for exampe 550hp with this settings? If I will put better feed pump and 10mm hoses and better fuelfilter?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 11-16-2012
(11-16-2012, 01:45 PM)jeemu(11-15-2012, 04:59 PM)m2rkz7mm 140cc cant get same power than 8mm 140cc(11-15-2012, 04:28 PM)jeemu Max cc isint all about it
You think 140cc is good enough for exampe 550hp with this settings? If I will put better feed pump and 10mm hoses and better fuelfilter?
Its 7,5mm 140cc.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - jeemu - 11-16-2012
(11-16-2012, 02:34 PM)dieselmeken7,5mm 140cc cant get same power than 8mm 140cc(11-16-2012, 01:45 PM)jeemu(11-15-2012, 04:59 PM)m2rkz You think 140cc is good enough for exampe 550hp with this settings? If I will put better feed pump and 10mm hoses and better fuelfilter?7mm 140cc cant get same power than 8mm 140cc
Its 7,5mm 140cc.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 11-16-2012
(11-16-2012, 03:30 PM)jeemu(11-16-2012, 02:34 PM)dieselmeken7,5mm 140cc cant get same power than 8mm 140cc(11-16-2012, 01:45 PM)jeemu 7mm 140cc cant get same power than 8mm 140cc
Its 7,5mm 140cc.
That depends on The duration of The element. Do you know how many degrees it takes for The 8 to inject 140cc?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Turbo - 11-16-2012
seams like now Dieselmeken is in the amount like Mynä, but still no 8mm
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - jeemu - 11-16-2012
Pump bench you can result you want.
Only that matters is how much and how fast, Dieselmerken just dont want to understand my guestion, asked many times
case closed. myy opinioin is at ewerybody can do what they want.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Turbo - 11-16-2012
That is another way of saying it
(11-16-2012, 04:42 PM)jeemu Pump bench you can result you want.
Only that matters is how much and how fast, Dieselmerken just dont want to understand my guestion, asked many times
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-17-2012
Hp is hp, but think about the driveability? 7.5mm in a dialy driver is ok, but very sensetive in the trottle! dont't wanna think about 8 or 8.5mm.... I am now speaking if you drive a Manual transmission, NOT automatic!!!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - m2rkz - 11-17-2012
(11-17-2012, 07:17 AM)EDH_Performance Hp is hp, but think about the driveability? 7.5mm in a dialy driver is ok, but very sensetive in the trottle! dont't wanna think about 8 or 8.5mm.... I am now speaking if you drive a Manual transmission, NOT automatic!!!
I drive with automatic transmission. gearbox is from 1999 w210 e55 amg. And the car is 1986 c126 sec 500.
EDH_Performance : I have the same question for you that I asked from dieselmeken. What do you think which pump is better for daily drive if I want 500 or maximum 600hp and wanna drive long trips with 2000grm too. For lower grm we gonna install m62 with electronic clutch. Which is better: 140cc pump or 180c pump with 7,5mm elements? I want your opinion.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-17-2012
I would go for 180cc 7,5mm with outside alda! I have driven MANY long trips with my car, no problem at all! You could go 8mm, but the price is high! Gørans pumps is good quality!! I have personally been in his workshop and he showd us every step under the build...try to get the other pumpbuilders to do that
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Siekkinen - 11-17-2012
(11-15-2012, 10:44 AM)m2rkz I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
There is something wrong with it. I got same results from om603 with 80mm3, 1.5 bars (holset hx35) and of course a stock feedpump.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - jeemu - 11-17-2012
605 with 550hp, Mynä 8mm, 10,5inch wheels with 255 tires
My woman go daily store shoping
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 11-17-2012
(11-17-2012, 05:12 PM)jeemu 605 with 550hp, Mynä 8mm, 10,5inch wheels with 255 tires
My woman go daily store shoping
Manual trans?
(11-17-2012, 04:18 PM)Siekkinen(11-15-2012, 10:44 AM)m2rkz I got pump from dieselmeken maybe in february but now I testid it. I have master power R6164. I went to dyno and got only 194kw from wheels. max boost was already at 3500grm 2,5bar. to 3500grm there is lot of black smoke and then the boost stays to 4500 and then go lower. and then there is not much black smoke. It seems like it gets too much diesel with low grm and too few diesel in high grm. With my wastegate I must get more than 3,0 bars. but there is not enough gases. It seems like settings in pump are all wrong. EGT is max 550.
Any ideas?
There is something wrong with it. I got same results from om603 with 80mm3, 1.5 bars (holset hx35) and of course a stock feedpump.
Thats a perfect example on that the stock feed pump can handle up to 80cc of fuel, even if the pump is setup for 140cc
(11-17-2012, 05:12 PM)jeemu 605 with 550hp, Mynä 8mm, 10,5inch wheels with 255 tires
My woman go daily store shoping
Manual trans?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Siekkinen - 11-17-2012
I have seen many +400 hp results with a stock feed pump. It depends on many things
but if you really need much power, you need to upgrade the feed pump to electric and fuel lines to 10mm.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - raysorenson - 11-17-2012
(11-16-2012, 02:34 PM)dieselmeken That depends on The duration of The element. Do you know how many degrees it takes for The 8 to inject 140cc?
Meken has a point. If there is an ideal duration time and delivery amount is to be fixed at 140cc, then it stands to reason that a bigger element isn't necessarily better.