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+--- Thread: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine (/showthread.php?tid=3394)
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 12-20-2012
From Austria Hansebanger77 on STD.
7,5mm 180cc 6000rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaXquzfDSgM&feature=player_embedded
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 01-21-2013
OM603 Dynorun, this is a 120cc pump, Regular elements,engine gives 355p in this edition.
Sounds nice or what do you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BhNRTBHgZko
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - raysorenson - 01-21-2013
Beautiful motor. Sounds good too.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - swecias - 03-03-2013
Mabe somebody likes to buy HX40W and exhaust manifold ?
http://www.per4m.lt/forum/download/file.php?id=2993
http://www.per4m.lt/forum/download/file.php?id=3374
http://www.per4m.lt/forum/download/file.php?id=3373
http://www.per4m.lt/forum/download/file.php?id=3372
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 04-26-2013
http://youtu.be/aXU8mTCJJO4
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Duncansport - 04-26-2013
(04-26-2013, 08:04 AM)dieselmeken http://youtu.be/aXU8mTCJJO4
Wow!!! Is this setup even remotely streetable? Or race only?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 04-26-2013
looking good , plenty of fuel.
Dieselmeken just keeps getting better and better.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Duncansport - 04-26-2013
(04-26-2013, 08:18 AM)mantahead looking good , plenty of fuel.
Dieselmeken just keeps getting better and better.
Not only doesn't he do amazing work, he funded the project ( custom elements) him self, documents what he's doing and shares it with this community. Truly an amazing person.
I have wanted to do a STD project for years now and the ONLY thing that made it possible for me was the ease contacting him and getting this project moving. After trolling sites and googling i still had no idea how to even get a pump to the other guy(s) or contact them..
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 04-26-2013
(04-26-2013, 08:36 AM)Duncansportyep,(04-26-2013, 08:18 AM)mantahead looking good , plenty of fuel.
Dieselmeken just keeps getting better and better.
Not only doesn't he do amazing work, he funded the project ( custom elements) him self, documents what he's doing and shares it with this community. Truly an amazing person.
I have wanted to do a STD project for years now and the ONLY thing that made it possible for me was the ease contacting him and getting this project moving. After trolling sites and googling i still had no idea how to even get a pump to the other guy(s) or contact them..
hes a very helpful guy and shares a lot of his work.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 04-26-2013
And i love to being his test pilot
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - frodes - 04-26-2013
(04-26-2013, 08:36 AM)Duncansport I have wanted to do a STD project for years now and the ONLY thing that made it possible for me was the ease contacting him and getting this project moving. After trolling sites and googling i still had no idea how to even get a pump to the other guy(s) or contact them..
Then your google skills can't be too good :-)
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Duncansport - 04-26-2013
Real nice.....oh you did put a smiley so it's ok i guess....
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - erling66 - 04-27-2013
(04-26-2013, 04:57 PM)frodes Then your google skills can't be too good :-)
Funny comment
I managed to find and use PP diesel and my google skills are only average.The thing to remember is that a few companies build good high flowing pumps for us but there is only one guy that care to educate us at the same time and that is Dieselmeken.
So thank you very much for your great informal videos Gøran
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 04-27-2013
(04-27-2013, 02:43 AM)erling66(04-26-2013, 04:57 PM)frodes Then your google skills can't be too good :-)
Funny comment
The thing to remember is that a few companies build good high flowing pumps for us but there is only one guy that care to educate us at the same time and that is Dieselmeken.
So thank you very much for your great informal videos Gøran
That comment Erling, did really make me glad, really glad Thanks alot. I will keep on making videos and show you all what I do to the pumps, No one else does it, and I think no one else will do it, Its new times now, why take the know how with me to the grave?
Better to share to those who have intrest of it.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - HaavardPYA - 04-27-2013
Thats right! Gøran is the man when we talk about pumps and diesel!
Also he supplies super service.
Keep up the good work!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 04-27-2013
So true Erling.
A lot of people would never have seen a pump in a test bench only for Goran. We can't thank him enough for sharing his work.
Also, all the hard work and development he has done on the m-pumps.
Keep up the good work Goran.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Stamsaas - 04-29-2013
One more of dieselmekens superpumps has came alive
will do the finetuning when engine is installed. Really looking forward to test this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycOgy7cff4c&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Em1d_qoWWk&feature=player_embedded
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - lgreeley83 - 04-29-2013
(04-29-2013, 10:33 AM)Stamsaas One more of dieselmekens superpumps has came alive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycOgy7cff4c&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Em1d_qoWWk&feature=player_embedded
First time i've seen a startup on a cherrypicker, awesome! Sounds good!
By the way, a particulate filtering face mask would be a good idea lol. I'm just sayin'. I probably wouldn't be wearing one either though.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Stamsaas - 04-30-2013
sounds really good
Yeah, a mask would have been nice. Filled the workshop so heavy with smoke so couldnt see anything :p
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 05-06-2013
New serie is on its way into the house, From now on I do 2 different setups of pumps.
7,5mm 140cc ALDA 6000 rpm
8,0mm 230cc ALDA 6000rpm Twin fuel entry
The 7,5mm 180cc element is now superseeded by the 8,0mm
Im not stopping here if anyone thought so, no way.
Next thing up is 3 stroked M-serie pump, yes you read it stroked pump.
3 camshafts is for the moment at the grinder, a CAD drawing is done, The 8 mm gives around 50cc/mm stroke, that tells me that I use around 4,6-4,8mm of the total stroke that is 7 mm to get 230cc
The stroked camshafts will be 8 mm lift, I need a bigger roller on the lifter to get full Power out of it, how much fuel? dont know yet, I keep you updated.
After that a new type of deliveryvalve is going to be tested............................................................................................................, well, maybee I have told you to much already...
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Stamsaas - 05-06-2013
You are crazy Göran, but in a really good way!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 05-06-2013
nice one Goran, keep up the good work.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - HaavardPYA - 05-06-2013
Love your work Gøran!!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Njdub - 05-06-2013
Holy crap! That's amazing!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 06-12-2013
Here it is, first picture of the 8 mm camshaft for OM606 pump. This one gives 1 mm longer lift, I need to have a bigger roller also, Rollers comes from 14,40mm to 16,10.
Normal is 15-15,6mm in pumps.
I have some 17 mm rollers from Bosch A-serie that can be modified, but then the roller house needs to be grinded out a bit = weaker roller, no good.
Rollers are in different diameters for adjusting the phasing degree between the lines.
0-60-120-180-240-300 +- 0,5 degree
Tests will be made this summer, I have grinded 3 shafts for 6 cyl pumps.
Maybee a "monsterpump" soon comes to life?
Recepie is like this
8mm element
8mm stroked camshaft
Custom made deliveryvalves from VP37 pump
6000 rpm governor
Outside ALDA for easy adjustments
EDH_Performance 4digit power output?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - hansebanger77 - 06-12-2013
O.o OMG
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Duncansport - 06-12-2013
Amazing stuff here!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 06-12-2013
looks good, always thought the cam should make a big difference.
we will see what happens....
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - MFSuper90 - 06-12-2013
They have been grinding cams for pulling trucks and tractors for years. But Göran is the only one dedicated enough to the Mercedes crowd to try it for us
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - EDH_Performance - 06-13-2013
Bring it on Gøran
I am super ready to bulid my 4-digit hp pump
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 06-13-2013
(06-13-2013, 03:32 AM)EDH_Performance Bring it on Gøran
I am super ready to bulid my 4-digit hp pump
Working on it for the moment.
Today I decided to go for the 17 mm roller from Bosch A-serie, ptnr 1410300248, its 10.90mm wide, As usual my mechanical workshop fixes this to me.
Grind down to 9,90 mm and do some work on the lifter body so it fits.
First I do 1 lifter as a test, up with pump in bench to mesaure it off, then I take the rest, probably with the wire EDM machine that is in the mechanical workshop.
I shall try to take some pictures of the workshop that have helped med with all crazy ideas around this project. its amazing what they can do.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - squirrelmaster - 06-13-2013
i got a set of floyds in my 603 it desent matter where i set the time nomatter what it will only idle snooth to 1350 rpm it does what that engine did at idle also is there any way around it besides that its awsome i adjusted the gov to about 5850 rpm and played with the buffer screw and idle speed no matter what i did 1350 is th lowesy speed it woll idle good but wow it burns tires and sounds awsome pasi if your reading this thanks
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Bangaway - 06-13-2013
I totally agree. Thanks for sharing all of this info on STD Dieselmeken. And thanks for developing and building pumps. Does Holset have a HX5000 to go with this pump in development? Ha ha. Not many people would share this info and post vids. Much appreciated. I know what I'm getting soon.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Alastair E - 06-14-2013
Correction, Bangaway--There's NO ONE else that would share this sorta info! Myna and all the rest develop their pumps and ideas--All TOP SECRET!--Therefore, who knows what shortcuts they do.
I believe I know why Goran, Dieselmeken is doing this.....
Its to become THE best,--And KNOWN to be the best too.
I firmly believe he IS the best at these (as well as other) pumps at the present time. He is not afraid to Prove this in his videos Goran leads--Others merely follow......
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - winmutt - 06-14-2013
Everyone knows open source is better than closed source. You can try it out cheap and then go to the experts to get it done right
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - maKe- - 06-17-2013
Now the pump competition is starting to get really interesting.
I wanna see the new 8mm pump with 7000-8000rpm gov and to be able to burn +200cc fuel at those rpms if it's even possible with IDI. Diesellandia Herlevi can configure their 8mm pumps with 8000rpm if wanted, but fuel at those rpms...? Mynä 8mm is proven 700whp with 86mm Holset single and Herlevi 8mm is ~600whp with 70mm Holset.
The new cam lobes will effectively increase plunger stroke and pressure before forcing fuel past delivery valve. In theory fuel quantity is increased but is the cam duration same as before and only lift increased? How is the injection advance/pump timing going to be different when using a cam like this?
A fixed timing is not optimal solution, but can mechanical pump ever have a timing suited for every rpm ranges from 1500-2000rpm cruise to 6000-7000rpm full power blast?
If Göran nails this new 8mm pump and +600whp is achievable without too much hassle on less than 70mm turbo (engine configuration spot on) and driveability is ok I need to hurry up and get my 606 soon.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 06-17-2013
(06-17-2013, 07:35 AM)maKe- Now the pump competition is starting to get really interesting.
I wanna see the new 8mm pump with 7000-8000rpm gov and to be able to burn +200cc fuel at those rpms if it's even possible with IDI. Diesellandia Herlevi can configure their 8mm pumps with 8000rpm if wanted, but fuel at those rpms...? Mynä 8mm is proven 700whp with 86mm Holset single and Herlevi 8mm is ~600whp with 70mm Holset.
The new cam lobes will effectively increase plunger stroke and pressure before forcing fuel past delivery valve. In theory fuel quantity is increased but is the cam duration same as before and only lift increased? How is the injection advance/pump timing going to be different when using a cam like this?
A fixed timing is not optimal solution, but can mechanical pump ever have a timing suited for every rpm ranges from 1500-2000rpm cruise to 6000-7000rpm full power blast?
If Göran nails this new 8mm pump and +600whp is achievable without too much hassle on less than 70mm turbo (engine configuration spot on) and driveability is ok I need to hurry up and get my 606 soon.
Im really not up in any competiton against the Finns, No way! Little me against the Finns??
After I joined superturbodiesel.com and read alot of threads concerning the pumps I thought that something needs to be done.
Why not open up and show how to do it instead of just lock everybody out from the dieselworkshop?
That have been done and I have got so much good feedback on that.
GTG at the workshop, I suggest 5-6 hours, but after 8 they want moore, That tells me that there is a big intrest in this kind of work, and that really makes me happy.
Next thing, after working with pumps over 30 years, for me its no longer a work, its a passion, I love my job, Hell I even got a licens plate on my company car that says FUN2WRK.
These small M-seriepumps have been a new challange for me, Im testing different setups, different elements, deliveryvalves etc.
Now I think I have taken this to level 2 with the stroked camshaft.
Maybee its done before in a M-pump, I dont know, but I have never heard of it
How much fuel will I get this time? I dont know yet, maybee I have spendt 1500 USD on grinding 3 shaft with no result at all?
If so, whatever, I did at least give it a try.
Wire EDM on the lifters will be done this week, so if I have time for it, first bench test will be made soon.
I can tell you that these tests that I have done, have cost some money, but what I earn on the superpumps, goes back to the superpumps
I will keep you all that read this thread updated and when I´m ready with the pump a recepie will be public. You of all are going to have it first.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - maKe- - 06-17-2013
Awesome work Gøran.
It's all about fun and passion. Mine is motorcycles (current toys -11 Husaberg supermotard and KTM RC8R), but cars and building them has been my long time dream. Just wanna build a fast and most likely a very different car now.
Keep up with the good work on building superpumps. Who knows if the Finns (us) are going to be asking from you how to do pumps.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 06-19-2013
When 17 mm roller should go into the lifter, there was not space enough,
Here you can see the lifter when its done with Wire EDM
From left, 17 mm roller in stock lifter
17 mm roller in wire EDM lifter
15 mm STD roller
With the stroked camshaft I got 275cc of fuel at max racktravel
To note is that the inlet port in the element is 3 mm, Pre stroke is 1,3mm, stroke is 18 degree "long" (4,2mm lift on element) after that the inlet port opens up in the bottom and element goes further 2,5mm to stop injection
To get 275cc on only 18 degree ( 36 engine degree) is quite quick, my old notes told me that a stock 6 mm element gives 83cc on 18 degree
7,5mm 150cc.
If I got a twin inletport and maybee only 1,5 mm hole, (1,5x2) then the pumpstroke would be 1 mm moore, Theroetical that would give me 40-50 cc moore and then the 300cc barrier is broken.
NOTE This is only in theorie, but I am tempted to try it out on a set of elements.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - willbhere4u - 06-19-2013
WOW that looks great keep up the good work!
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Duncansport - 06-19-2013
(06-19-2013, 10:14 AM)dieselmeken When 17 mm roller should go into the lifter, there was not space enough,Perhaps a dumb question here... Would that level of fuel that quickly lead to some sort of pressure rise the the fuel injector could not handle? After all at 275cc it is far more then double that of the OE delivery rate. Would a two step injector fit the bill better at that point? Just curious... Amazing work!!!
Here you can see the lifter when its done with Wire EDM
From left, 17 mm roller in stock lifter
17 mm roller in wire EDM lifter
15 mm STD roller
With the stroked camshaft I got 275cc of fuel at max racktravel
To note is that the inlet port in the element is 3 mm, Pre stroke is 1,3mm, stroke is 18 degree "long" (4,2mm lift on element) after that the inlet port opens up in the bottom and element goes further 2,5mm to stop injection
To get 275cc on only 18 degree ( 36 engine degree) is quite quick, my old notes told me that a stock 6 mm element gives 83cc on 18 degree
7,5mm 150cc.
If I got a twin inletport and maybee only 1,5 mm hole, (1,5x2) then the pumpstroke would be 1 mm moore, Theroetical that would give me 40-50 cc moore and then the 300cc barrier is broken.
NOTE This is only in theorie, but I am tempted to try it out on a set of elements.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - Alastair E - 06-19-2013
Wow!
That is 1.6 LITRES of fuel delivered to the engine--per 1000 strokes..... About 4.6 litres per minute pumped to the Injectors at 6000 rpm....
--Hmm--Well Over a Gallon per minute, On full tilt I wonder what the fuel consumption would be!--A good poke in the eye to 'Al Gore and the greenie cronies!!--Huge Great fun though....
Running say 6000 RPM, it'll need a Nice BIG Lift-pump capable of good pressure at that flow to ensure correct element filling, filter and fuel-lines just to keep up with it!
--Hence Goran's dual-fuel inlet port pump case......
Thanks to Goran's excellent work, I think we may be getting to the point that no matter What Turbo etc you have, There'll not be enough air in the cylinders to burn That much fuel efficiently in say a 605 or 606 motor, and forget it on an 'asthmatic' 617!....
Can the 'standard' injector deliver That much fuel--in 36 degrees crank effectively--I dunno, maybe that'll start to limit at such huge fluid flows in such a short time .....
As to the lack of air--Nitrous anyone....?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 06-19-2013
good stuff Goran.
now, who has an engine that is strong enough?
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 06-19-2013
(06-19-2013, 05:35 PM)mantahead good stuff Goran.
now, who has an engine that is strong enough?
No one, but we will give it a try in EDH_performance twin turbo OM606.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - majesty78 - 06-21-2013
This will be like nuclear core melting reaction in cylinder ^^
Kawoooooooooooooooom!
At each stroke. ^^
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - yankneck696 - 06-21-2013
Gonna need a 55 gallon drum for an injector !!! Excellent work. Excellent education !!!
Ed
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - dieselmeken - 06-28-2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNyZ3nFAKkU&feature=share&list=UU7cRC8zFsFPcCb_eHoqMLdg
This is with standard camshaft & rollers & deliveryvalves. Only elements & governor modified
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - mantahead - 06-28-2013
(06-28-2013, 08:42 AM)dieselmeken http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNyZ3nFAKkU&feature=share&list=UU7cRC8zFsFPcCb_eHoqMLdgyour crazy Goran,
This is with standard camshaft & rollers & deliveryvalves. Only elements & governor modified
keep up the good work my friend.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - barrote - 07-01-2013
Mr Dieselmeken,
I´ve been studing this M type pump for a while now and i thought of that idea too, raise the lifter cam. Well, looks like u´re in the good direction, my regards.
One day when free time will alow intend to run one this M series with the electric governor (ECU) to see what i can do.
(since everibody fears computers)
meanwile i would be glad to find where to buy some proven 7.5 or 8 mm elements for my project.
Could u help me on this?
Regards
FD.
RE: 7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine - sorin_cel - 07-07-2013
hello.one question for dieselmeken.i want to modify a mercedes om 602 pump from 5,5 mm elements to 6,5 mm elements from McCormick tractor.it will make 120cc? thats i want...
thanks!