oil-pan sump options for om617s?

oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Printable Version

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oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-12-2010

Very interested in options that would provide additional clearance regarding these front oil-pan sumps.

I found a potential solution:
in the pic, the sump is rotated forward, but don't see it couldn't be rotated towards the rear or the drivers side for better front pumpkin clearance.

[Image: oilPAN.jpg]

If anyone has any other options/mods, please post up...

thanks,
manny

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - ForcedInduction - 05-13-2010

(05-12-2010, 07:55 PM)mr_manny but don't see it couldn't be rotated towards the rear or the drivers side for better front pumpkin clearance.

The oil pump.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-14-2010

[/quote]
The oil pump.
[/quote]

the oil pump/pickup is definitely the limiting factor.
from this pic. illustrating the pump/pickup, some clearance could be gained.

[Image: pan0.jpg]

(left is a side shot - right is from the front)

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - GREASY_BEAST - 05-15-2010

Dry-sump?

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-15-2010

(05-15-2010, 03:39 PM)GREASY_BEAST Dry-sump?

I'm thinking a Dry-sump would be the last resort.

OM617 will be going into a 4x4, so you can now understand my clearance concerns (front differential).
I'm sure my mild suspension-lift isn't ideal, but pulling myself into my truck when I'm 60 is going to get old real quick Big Grin

Hope to have some real clearance numbers In about a month or so...keep you guys posted.

manny

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-16-2010

Found this sweet LandRover/om617 build...rig appears to have stock to mild lift.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178339&postcount=120

looks like a simple modification of the lower-sump may be all that is needed Smile

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 05-24-2010

i'm doing the same swap and have some issue with clearance. right now my steering setup is the limiting factor for compression . i have a little room due to spring over, but the rotated pinion reduces clearance again. i was thinking of removing the passenger side corner from the oil pan and making up for lost capacity by maybe adding an extra oil cooler....
do you have a writeup anywhere for your build?

(05-16-2010, 03:03 PM)mr_manny Found this sweet LandRover/om617 build...rig appears to have stock to mild lift.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178339&postcount=120

looks like a simple modification of the lower-sump may be all that is needed

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Sour Diesel - 05-24-2010

Thats the key, all about the lift. Also move axel forward, and motor back.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-25-2010

fj four o,
No build thread yet...maybe in another month, need to pull original motor 1st.
anyone want to buy a 2f :p

The land-rover mod seems like a pretty clean solution, also an opportunity to beef up the bottom of the pan.

thanks for the tip sour diesel,
Hoping to get away with a mild lift (less then 4")...not looking forward to pulling myself into my rig when I'm 60 :p

Contemplating a minimal body-lift to gain flat-belly.

Will get a better idea during mock-up.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 05-25-2010

mine is mocked and installed, if you have any questions or need pics let me know.

(05-25-2010, 12:07 AM)mr_manny fj four o,
No build thread yet...maybe in another month, need to pull original motor 1st.
anyone want to buy a 2f :p

The land-rover mod seems like a pretty clean solution, also an opportunity to beef up the bottom of the pan.

thanks for the tip sour diesel,
Hoping to get away with a mild lift (less then 4")...not looking forward to pulling myself into my rig when I'm 60 :p

Contemplating a minimal body-lift to gain flat-belly.

Will get a better idea during mock-up.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - E300TSC - 05-25-2010

I would be very cautious about re-designing the sump on an oil pan, especially in an off-road situation.

Extreme descent/ascent angles will starve the engine for oil for fairly long periods of time.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - winmutt - 05-25-2010

Cough, suprised no one has mentioned the Gwagen pan....

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Therapy - 05-27-2010

(05-25-2010, 04:01 PM)winmutt Cough, suprised no one has mentioned the Gwagen pan....

Last I checked, which was like 2001'ish, the Mercedes Dry sump was very expensive used and they are hard to find. If I remember correctly. ¿?

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-27-2010

E300TSC,
The modifications are kinda mild...checkout the expeditionportal link.

An oil accumulator would remove any off-camber concerns...wonder If I have room :p

http://treperformance.com/c-62634-oil-system-canton-accusump-oil-accumulators.html

fj four o,
Any info would be appreciated Smile

shoot you a pm. when I'm done with this out-of-state project...

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - saburai - 05-21-2011

Hi Mr. Manny!

What 4x4 are you putting the om617 in to?

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 05-24-2011

(05-27-2010, 06:04 PM)mr_manny E300TSC,
The modifications are kinda mild...checkout the expeditionportal link.

An oil accumulator would remove any off-camber concerns...wonder If I have room :p

http://treperformance.com/c-62634-oil-system-canton-accusump-oil-accumulators.html

fj four o,
Any info would be appreciated

shoot you a pm. when I'm done with this out-of-state project...

manny, i took a notch out of the pan at the front. its not ideal because i do lose some oil capacity, but it does give me clearance to my 4x4 labs high steer. as you know by now, i'm not a great communicator, but i may be able to post a pic if you are still in need.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-24-2011

(05-21-2011, 08:34 AM)saburai Hi Mr. Manny!

What 4x4 are you putting the om617 in to?

early toyota landcruiser Smile

(05-24-2011, 12:39 AM)fj four o
(05-27-2010, 06:04 PM)mr_manny E300TSC,
The modifications are kinda mild...checkout the expeditionportal link.

An oil accumulator would remove any off-camber concerns...wonder If I have room :p

http://treperformance.com/c-62634-oil-system-canton-accusump-oil-accumulators.html

fj four o,
Any info would be appreciated

shoot you a pm. when I'm done with this out-of-state project...

manny, i took a notch out of the pan at the front. its not ideal because i do lose some oil capacity, but it does give me clearance to my 4x4 labs high steer. as you know by now, i'm not a great communicator, but i may be able to post a pic if you are still in need.

no worries Smile

I didn't modify pan, hoping extended bump stops address clearance issues.

are you running Luke's cross-over steering?

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-25-2011

wanted to post another option thats available - narrowed oil-pan:
http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/Products.aspx

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - larsalan - 05-25-2011

You might get part of my old car if you use that one. I just sold the stock aluminum casting to that guy.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - saburai - 05-25-2011

(05-25-2011, 08:39 AM)mr_manny wanted to post another option thats available - narrowed oil-pan:
http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/Products.aspx

Beautiful Truck Manny!

That is the pan I'll use on my Jeep XJ swap. I spoke with him on the phone, he seems like a good guy.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 05-25-2011

thanks...she looks purdy from afar :p

with regard to oil-pan clearance:
I've also switched to fj60 axles = moved my front diff 1 1/2" to the passenger-side

reducing the likely hood of smacking the oil-pan against your front diff is always a good thing Smile

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 05-27-2011

yeah, i have luke's setup. i'm pretty tight on compression clearance because i'm trying to stay low. we'll see how that works out, may have to jack it up some. maybe get some pics up this weekend.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 06-08-2011

[Image: 5811235870_306093d72b_m.jpg]

still no pic of installation. i only get about 3" max up travel before disaster.

i'll need to monitor the heft of the stock bump stops or replace with something more burly.

nice cruiser manny!

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 06-08-2011

(06-08-2011, 02:22 AM)fj four o

still no pic of installation. i only get about 3" max up travel before disaster.

i'll need to monitor the heft of the stock bump stops or replace with something more burly.

nice cruiser manny!

thanks

crushing your oil-pan would definitely = disaster

here are some pics of my burly bumpstops Smile

steel tube, with poly caps...prob. not as gentle at stock :p

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 06-08-2011

wow, yeah i might have to do something similar. i'm a little worried about mine

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - RonB - 06-11-2011

(05-25-2010, 04:01 PM)winmutt Cough, suprised no one has mentioned the Gwagen pan....

The W460 300GD G-wagen has a single peice sump without the separate steel oil pan . It is virtually the same layout as the car part but has runners inside to channel the oil back to the sump quicker . A mate in ireland sells used G-wagens as part of his buisness. You could ask him if he has any used ones for sale.
Eddie Gilmartin

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - kmaser - 06-11-2011

The 300GD oil pan is for a N/A OM617 and has no provision for the oil drain back and does not physically bolt up.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - RonB - 06-11-2011

(06-11-2011, 10:48 AM)kmaser The 300GD oil pan is for a N/A OM617 and has no provision for the oil drain back and does not physically bolt up.

Eddie might have some spares as he handles a lot of the W460's and there are a lot of them are converted to M117's. The sand cast pan is thick enough to drill and tap for anything. i guess you mean the turbo return Line? . I am curious though,where doesn't it fit up to the car block ? Huh

Or do you mean the pan would hit his diff?

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Syncro_G - 06-11-2011

(06-11-2011, 06:07 PM)RonB
(06-11-2011, 10:48 AM)kmaser The 300GD oil pan is for a N/A OM617 and has no provision for the oil drain back and does not physically bolt up.
Eddie might have some spares as he handles a lot of the W460's and there are a lot of them are converted to M117's. The sand cast pan is thick enough to drill and tap for anything. i guess you mean the turbo return Line? . I am curious though,where doesn't it fit up to the car block ?
Or do you mean the pan would hit his diff?

The turbo and non turbo blocks are of different lengths. So it's not a simple issue of drilling and tapping. The G-wagon folks either fix the problem with extra bump stops--limiting suspension travel or make/buy custom engine mounts to position the turbo motor a little further forward.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - RonB - 06-12-2011

(06-11-2011, 11:33 PM)Syncro_G
(06-11-2011, 06:07 PM)RonB
(06-11-2011, 10:48 AM)kmaser The 300GD oil pan is for a N/A OM617 and has no provision for the oil drain back and does not physically bolt up.
Eddie might have some spares as he handles a lot of the W460's and there are a lot of them are converted to M117's. The sand cast pan is thick enough to drill and tap for anything. i guess you mean the turbo return Line? . I am curious though,where doesn't it fit up to the car block ?
Or do you mean the pan would hit his diff?

The turbo and non turbo blocks are of different lengths. So it's not a simple issue of drilling and tapping. The G-wagon folks either fix the problem with extra bump stops--limiting suspension travel or make/buy custom engine mounts to position the turbo motor a little further forward.

Different lengths? thats new one on me, mainly because we never had them here . There is close to 6" inches of cleanrance under a 300GD to the sump from the diff head ( at least on the one i have here there and it hasn't been lifted) .
How much longer is a turbo block?
I'll have to dig into the EPC and check the part numbers although the turbo block is a different casting to accomodate the piston cooling vents ,I wouldn't have though the engines were longer. Smile

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Syncro_G - 06-12-2011

(06-12-2011, 12:35 AM)RonB Different lengths? thats new one on me, mainly because we never had them here . There is close to 6" inches of cleanrance under a 300GD to the sump from the diff head ( at least on the one i have here there and it hasn't been lifted) .
How much longer is a turbo block?
I'll have to dig into the EPC and check the part numbers although the turbo block is a different casting to accomodate the piston cooling vents ,I wouldn't have though the engines were longer.

Im going on second-hand observation since I haven't spent quality time with the non-turbo motor. But I'm told bearing journals are wider to accommodate the extra power and so the case had to get bigger. someone once posted pictures and measurements on pointedthree which put the issue to rest over there.

Btw, mr manny, that's a great looking project. Good luck!

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 06-12-2011

Thanks Ron,
Currently going through cruiser withdrawal, but know she will be worth the wait Smile

BTW,
Another option is a narrowed pan from these guys:

http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/MB102.aspx

no affiliation,
manny

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - RonB - 06-12-2011

(06-12-2011, 03:58 PM)mr_manny Thanks Ron,
Currently going through cruiser withdrawal, but know she will be worth the wait

BTW,
Another option is a narrowed pan from these guys:

http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/MB102.aspx

no affiliation,
manny

As a matter of interest i worked on the toyota FJ40's when they were new . A mate here in OZ had the very first landcruiser delivered to Australia .it was complete with a brass plaque signifying this . These early ones are very simple,kind of like comparing a Ford GP from 1945 to a wrangler today. Just like a car needs to be.. Big Grin

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 07-20-2011

front oil sump not an issue on the Rubicon Trail Smile

some vids for your viewing pleasure :

http://youtu.be/dtYQe7ZLoG4

http://youtu.be/R8ud0T49Xt4

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - fj four o - 07-20-2011

manny, that's the best set of om617/ landcruiser videos i've seen yet! good work. the orion t case seems to be doing the trick. did you ever use the bump stops to save the oil pan?

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Captain America - 07-21-2011

Looks good!

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - mr_manny - 07-21-2011

(07-20-2011, 11:57 PM)fj four o manny, that's the best set of om617/ landcruiser videos i've seen yet! good work. the orion t case seems to be doing the trick. did you ever use the bump stops to save the oil pan?

Thanks

The Rubicon is a tough trail, bump stops were used regularly :p
I did find myself looking at bump stops on other rigs...I know mine have less shock absorption qualities, but I didn't notice a difference.

Orion definitely made this combination work...if your not crawlin on rocks, it would not be necessary.

looking forward other tuning opportunities, maybe even an Inter-cooler to reduce those EGTs when heading up to the Sierras.

RE: oil-pan sump options for om617s? - Captain America - 07-21-2011

That crawl ratio is insane! I would go nuts and end up with the peddle to the floor boostin everywhere!