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+--- Thread: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! (/showthread.php?tid=1742)
W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-15-2010
Ok...so a lot of you have probably seen my ad for my car I'm trying to sell. Well since nobody seems interested I might as well have some more fun with the car!
So my plan is to make this thing faster in some way shape or form.
So what are my options here??? I got a lot of questions!!!
Question 1: What is the maximum power that this stock OM606 pump will provide? I have seen the USA Speed Tuning products that will bump the power to roughly 215hp but how much more is available?
Question 2: Are there other companies offering tuning for this car/powertrain? Better options than Speed Tuning?
Question 3: Can I have larger elements installed and still retain my ecm controlled throttle?
Question 4: How soon before the trans scatters all over the road? I guess I would really like to know if these transmissions are strong or not really. I got 300,000+ miles and the fluid looks damn good for being an original trans...but will I destroy the trans with a chip?
I'm really looking to start with a chip, but would also like to know how far I can push the power and still retain driveability and reliability. Thanks for your input and expertise in advance!
If it dont smoke black, send it back! Sorry EPA
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 09-16-2010
1: About 250hp.
3: Yes.
4: 722.6 is pretty strong stock, but can be strengthened to withstand 300-400hp.
The biggest restriction is the small stock turbo.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-16-2010
Thank you for the quick reply! 250hp was a little more than I expected! Corrtect me if I'm wrong, but I have heard these engines can handle 400hp in stock form. Maybe? Is there a common turbo that people swap out on these?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - ForcedInduction - 09-16-2010
250hp is what the pump can flow, but it can't flow that much safely due to the long injection duration. Thats why the tuners only bump it to 215hp.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-16-2010
So at the 250hp mark it stresses the pump too much?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - ForcedInduction - 09-16-2010
No. The injection duration is too long. The fuel is injected too late into combustion and can't burn completely, it results in unsafe exhaust temperatures.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-16-2010
Ah! I read ya! Just more of a reason for more air!
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - ForcedInduction - 09-16-2010
More air doesn't change physics.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-16-2010
I'll probably come up with something
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - willbhere4u - 09-16-2010
What ya need is an EGT gauge! And eventual a built pump!
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-16-2010
For sure! My plan at the moment is an A pillar guage pod with EGT's and boost.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Captain America - 09-18-2010
Can you advance IP timing a little to battle the long injection duration?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 02:13 PM)Captain America Can you advance IP timing a little to battle the long injection duration?
It won't help, can't advance that much. More air doesn't help much either. Only cure is bigger elements.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Captain America - 09-18-2010
Waaaaaaa!Why can you not? because it cannot physically advance far enough or because the injection would just be too soon?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - ForcedInduction - 09-18-2010
Injection would be far too advanced. You'd end up partially compressing expanding gasses.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Captain America - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 04:59 PM)ForcedInduction Injection would be far too advanced. You'd end up partially compressing expanding gasses.
crap, That's what I was afraid of...
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-18-2010
I'm thinkin I'm going to go with the max fuel tune and use water injection controlled by a boost switch. It should drop the egt's and make more power.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 09-19-2010
(09-18-2010, 06:07 PM)gen3performance I'm thinkin I'm going to go with the max fuel tune and use water injection controlled by a boost switch. It should drop the egt's and make more power.
It won't help! If injection duration is too long, the last "drops" of fuel just produce heat and smoke instead of power. So you'll end up making heat and using water injection to cure it. You'll get better results using shorter injection duration and you don't have to use water injection.
I assume this tuning will be done in a dyno, so it should be easy to find the point where increasing injection duration won't show up in torque graphs but in smoking.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-19-2010
I understand that the injection duration will be too long, but I really dont want to install larger elements in the pump unless I have to have the pump rebuilt.
Also I cant tune the car on a dyno since I don't know anyone in the area with the capabilities of modifying the ecu.
Basically I am looking at from the position that I would rather have 250hp than 215hp and if I have to inject water thats ok with me since water will cool the egt's and generally make some power. If it smokes, I'm ok with it since I like smoke and I can make people behind me mad
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 09-19-2010
The point is: when you go beyond a certain point, you will not get any more power. Only smoke and heat. Water injection won't give any more power on this case.
As the stock turbo is small, that will also heavily increase backpressure and EGT when trying to get the max out of stock pump. Are you ok with a cracked cylinder head?
A couple of examples, so you would get the point:
With bigger turbo and reasonable injection duration = 240hp and no smoke, no excessive heat load.
With bigger/stock turbo and very long injection duration = 239hp, LOTS of heat and LOTS of smoke. Basically this is the same even with water injection, compared to the other option.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-19-2010
What is considered a dangerous egp on the 606?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 09-20-2010
(09-19-2010, 02:45 PM)gen3performance What is considered a dangerous egp on the 606?
Depends on setup. Under 30psi is safe for sure, but can't tell a rule of thumb other than it should be at the same vicinity as boost. For example, with 20psi boost and 45psi EGP you'll be in trouble, whereas 20psi and 25-30psi is ok.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - jeemu - 09-21-2010
Best if boos is little higher.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-23-2010
I know this would be a band aid, but let me know what u guys think of this idea.
What if I went with the max fuel tune in the ecu and then limited the accelerator pedal with an adjustable mechanism between the pedal and floor board.
This way I will have the maximum capability of the pump and I could then adjust the amount of fuel/egt/egp on the dyno. Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent? Possible shifting issues?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - ForcedInduction - 09-23-2010
(09-23-2010, 10:06 AM)gen3performance What if I went with the max fuel tune in the ecu and then limited the accelerator pedal with an adjustable mechanism between the pedal and floor board.
Such a device is already installed in every car.
![[Image: h5551068.jpg]](http://myhealth.ucsd.edu/library/healthguide/en-us/images/media/medical/hw/h5551068.jpg)
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 09-23-2010
Not cars driven by peg legged pirates...
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - erling66 - 09-24-2010
Anyone who know where to get larger elements?(except myna) or part number? I guess 7mm is the next step after the 6mm stock elements in the 606td
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 09-26-2010
Old Ford Transit has 7mm elements that fit in Merc M-pump.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - gen3performance - 10-02-2010
I went with the 215hp tune and am happy with the performance...the tune really woke this thing up!
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - 300D50 - 10-04-2010
(09-26-2010, 01:08 PM)muuris Old Ford Transit has 7mm elements that fit in Merc M-pump.
Is it a drop-in, or does stuff need to be machined?
Excuse the Newb, but the m pump is the 617 type, right?
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - E300TSC - 10-04-2010
Some OM617's had the M type, others the MW. The M is found on the 60x series and the electronic version on the OM606.912 and 606.962.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 10-05-2010
Not more than little machining required in the worst case. Haven't changed myself, but those were in my previous pump.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Olivier - 10-05-2010
jeemu, do you mean its best if the boost is highter then the egt or highter then 20 psi?
Cheers.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Olivier - 10-05-2010
jeemu, do you mean its best if the boost is highter then the egt or highter then 20 psi?
Cheers.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 10-06-2010
(10-05-2010, 12:00 PM)Olivier jeemu, do you mean its best if the boost is highter then the egt or highter then 20 psi?
Cheers.
Come on, use the common sense! Of course it's safe when boost is higher than egp.
The other option would mean 1psi boost and 21psi egp would be good ratio. Which is not.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Olivier - 10-06-2010
Hi Muuris,
first I have no knowledge on this as its new for me, this is why I am asking questions. Second it doesn't feel like common sense to me that the boost could be highter then the EGP as the EGP come after the explosion/ heat etc... then it seems EGP should be highter at first look? Again, why I wondered.
Thank you for the knowledge tho.
Olivier
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - muuris - 10-07-2010
(10-06-2010, 02:53 PM)Olivier then it seems EGP should be highter at first look?
Then think about this: no turbo, or anything else bolted to exhaust manifold. Still got high pressure there? So it's mostly about the turbo's restriction, or ability to flow.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Olivier - 10-07-2010
Thank you Muuris for the hint. I had to get some explaination from someone else there as I was getting confused a bit. Much better noe and its all really interesting.
All the best.
Olivier
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - atypicalguy - 12-26-2015
Does anyone know what the stock pump fueling level is on the om606.962? In other words, how much fuel per injector per 1000 injection events, maximum? Thanks.
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - Petar - 12-26-2015
Don't know the exact value but it is somewhere around 60-65cc
RE: W210 OM606 Fueling??? Experts needed! - atypicalguy - 12-26-2015
Thank you Petar. Just trying to size up some compounds but the pump specifications do not seem seem to be widely avaipable.