OM613 EDC15C6 - Printable Version

OM613 EDC15C6 - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: OM613 EDC15C6 (/showthread.php?tid=4062)

OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-06-2012

Hi guys!
I work at a university in Norway. Here we are planning to build a engine test facility. It is supposed to be used for emission research and student demonstrations.
And therefore i have bought a OM613 engine from a E320cdi -2000.
It's supposed to run against a water brake (without a transmission) and controlled/monitored from a computer.
The problem is to get it to start! I have the electronic key and electronic unit. But when i asked bosch, they said that without the transmission, the engine won't start. So i did a research on ECU flashing, and was told to buy Galletto flasher and send the ECU data to a guy for reprogramming.
Bought the ECU flasher, but it did not communicate with the ECU Sad

To be sure the ECU was actually working, i tested with ProScan (which i had experience with from before) and managed to read the throttle position, MAF, MAP and so on.
I got another suggestion that i should open the ECU and then connect a pin on the flash to ground, to force some boot-mode or something. No luck.
Got in contact with a guy that offered to come and watch my setup, but got an e-mail a little later when he had done some research, and told me that the immobilizer is fucking with me since i dont have the instrument cluster.
Does anyone have a solution for this problem? De-solder the flash and buy another flasher tool? Or is an aftermarket ECU the only solution?

[Image: 01.jpg]

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - raysorenson - 11-06-2012

Not sure about the Galetto, I've got no experience with it but I've used a cheap ebay knockoff of the KWP 2000 flasher on a Bosch Motronic. The Bosch EDC is in the KWP 2000's list of supported ECU's.

Beware, I've heard of some folks frying their ECU's with the ebay KWP 2000 knockoffs so do your research if you go that route.

http://www.kwp2000.info/supported_cars

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-06-2012

I guess the Galletto is similar to KWP 2000, just a newer version. EDC is also in Galletto's support list.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - raysorenson - 11-06-2012

Ah, I see that it is. This isn't the best forum. Have you tried nefariousmotorsports.com or chiptuners.org?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-06-2012

Thanks for the advice!

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Volker407 - 11-07-2012

What Bosch said was right.
Every engine of this make is "married" to a certain transmission. Not just the model, only one certain transmission. So even if you had the same transmission model it wouldn´t work. In addition all the communication between engine and transmission is coded.

I think it will be very hard to get it working correctly if you can´t even get it working in the emergency mode.
Removing or modifying components also won´t help, as only one missing or incorrect ECU CAN-Bus signal (e.g. instruments, transmission, locking system,...) causes the engine ECU to proceed to emergency mode. And that mode is faaar away from any emission research that would make sense in any way.

In my opinion an aftermarket ECU would make more sense.

Gruß
Volker

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-07-2012

So maybe NIRA i7r could be a good candidate?
http://www.niramotorsport.com/pdf/NIRA_i7r.pdf

Is it hard for a newbie to get this working?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - diesel2fast4u - 11-07-2012

(11-07-2012, 11:40 AM)Steinkr So maybe NIRA i7r could be a good candidate?
http://www.niramotorsport.com/pdf/NIRA_i7r.pdf

Is it hard for a newbie to get this working?

Contact Rub87 here, he can help

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Mark_M - 11-07-2012

I have no knowledge of this ECU but do know it is indeed the immobiliser that is stopping you. Flashing a new map is one thing but removing the security is a different thing entirely. Some ECU's can have the security removed by specialists (I know of some BMW ones) but most for obvious reasons can't. A friendly dealer will be able to do it or atleast pair it with different equipment but most dealers wont give you the time of day for this kind of thing.

Have you checked the prices on the aftermarket ECU's? last I looked they were horrifically priced. it will also involve you creating and tuning maps, possibly from scratch unless you can find a base map. Its a bit of a black art but if you have the time and want to do it then its a lot of fun. I have set up a few megasquirts in the past. At least with a diesel you have little chance of destroying the engine just lots of black smoke or no power until you get it right.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - raysorenson - 11-07-2012

In the hands of a competent tuner with the right damos file, your ecu is a standalone. I suggest registering on the chiptuners.org forum and finding that guy. Politically speaking, you should find folks willing to help there since you're not a candidate for software piracy. You don't seem to have a bootleg version of WinOls (if you did, you wouldn't be here) and the file you need isn't market-able to their consumers.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-08-2012

Happy news! I finally managed to read out the ECU. Turns out my galletto flasher wont work with supply voltage over 12 volt.

Can someone look at the file for me? If you think you can fix the program, give me a price offer for the job. Smile

http://folk.ntnu.no/steinks/MB/EDC15C6%20MB320cdi
http://folk.ntnu.no/steinks/MB/14.jpg
http://folk.ntnu.no/steinks/MB/15.jpg
http://folk.ntnu.no/steinks/MB/Galletto.png

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 11-09-2012

You just need to either transmit a CAN message with a device like PCAN for Neutral safety or use a shifter and etc module on the can bus. This will get you started. But you will have to transmit vehicle speed also or you will not be able to rev very high or get full power.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-09-2012

Do you know what the messages supposed to look like?
I have equipment for reading and writing CAN-messages, but i dont know what the PID's means. Cant find a overview of them anywhere. Maybe secret stuff?
I use equipment from National Instruments, programmed with LabVIEW

http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/no/nid/201972

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - willy - 11-09-2012

Hi Steinkr,

maybe Bosch motorsport division could give you an EDC15
for educational purpose.
That would give you the ability to test different engineparameters
without fiddling with the original ECU.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/downloads/Documentation/ECUs_en.pdf

On the other hand there are two other companies known by only
a few persons in public... but they develop the technologie Bosch sells !

http://www.lorange.com/index.php?id=2623
https://www.avl.com/home

Greetz to norway
willy

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-09-2012

Thank you Willy!
I will check that out!

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 11-09-2012

to start you need to transmit id218 byte 3 hex dd. id 200 and 208 bytes 7/8 veh speed. the divisor is 2.56 so decimal 2560 is 100mph. I do not know which value is required and how much for allowing revs. 7 and 8 are individual wheel speed values so it is id200 7 is lf and 8 is rf wheel.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-11-2012

I will try that!
Do you have an overview over different CAN id's?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 11-12-2012

I really do not have a total overview. Mercedes does not really tell you all of it. I did want to add that you need to transmit id218 byte 5 as hex 23 for neutral safety to start.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-20-2012

I have now read the IMMO data, EEPROM ST95P08. What modifications should i make?

http://folk.ntnu.no/steinks/MB/ST95P08_original.bin

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Boatbuilder - 11-21-2012

Hi, I have two of these engines working in my boat. You need original keypackage, original steering wheel lock and original ECU, all units from same car. Then wire it acc. to the original wiring diagram and the engine will start and run and in limp mode because you are lacking speed sensor, transmission input etc. If you need full power your ECU need to be modified. My boat run as "hell" and in Norwegian waters. Rolleyes

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-21-2012

Nice! Big Grin

I have key & ECU from same car, but the steering wheel lock is from another. Maybe that is my starting problem? Is there any way to crack the signal between key and lock?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Boatbuilder - 11-21-2012

(11-21-2012, 02:44 PM)Steinkr Nice!
I have key & ECU from same car, but the steering wheel lock is from another. Maybe that is my starting problem? Is there any way to crack the signal between key and lock?

Yes it is possible , but still engine will only run in limp mode. You need to modify the software if full power is needed.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-21-2012

Do you have a clue of how the signal should look like? A repeating voltage waveform? Would be fun to make it work Smile

I have talked to some guys about the software, but no one has succeeded yet i guess.
Maybe you can help me with the software? Or do you know someone? In Norway perhaps?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Boatbuilder - 11-22-2012

(11-21-2012, 04:29 PM)Steinkr Do you have a clue of how the signal should look like? A repeating voltage waveform? Would be fun to make it work
I have talked to some guys about the software, but no one has succeeded yet i guess.
Maybe you can help me with the software? Or do you know someone? In Norway perhaps?

Hi, it is possible to use an immobilizer, specific made for that steering lock, and then start the engine, but it will only run in limp mode and you can also read out fault codes, especially if you have MB Star diagnostic.
When ECU are reprogrammed (part of it ) engine will run ok , but you will NOT be able to get fault codes because the ECU are ignoring them.
Estimated costs for immobiliser~$ 200,- and for ECU work ~$700,-
As you may know it is also possible with aftermarket stand alone ECU but cost are considerably higher and you also need to make the program.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-27-2012

I have ordered a steering column lock emulator: https://carlabimmo.com/product.php?id_product=35
Also a immo emulator: https://carlabimmo.com/product.php?id_product=34
Wanted to try both. But the best have been to get to start the engine without these things.
A guy at tuningservice in Trondheim is going to look at the ecu flash. But if anyone else think they also can help me with that, please do!

I have talked to the professor about buying a aftermarked stand alone ECU from BOsch motorsport, so that may be the end result.
Is it very hard to do that kind of programming?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 11-28-2012

Steinkr,
I was wondering if you or anyone else knows more about these emulators. Do they replace the DAS system completely?
Do they really work. I would love something like this for my project with an om648. I was going down a different route and was looking at the esl emulators as a possibility. Does this really get rid of the whole system though?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Boatbuilder - 11-29-2012

(11-28-2012, 02:48 PM)whipplem104 Steinkr,
I was wondering if you or anyone else knows more about these emulators. Do they replace the DAS system completely?
Do they really work. I would love something like this for my project with an om648. I was going down a different route and was looking at the esl emulators as a possibility. Does this really get rid of the whole system though?

Hi take a look at 11-21-2012. Emulator only replace steering lock signals.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 11-29-2012

Well the website seems to have both an ezs and esl listed seperately. I was looking at the downloads and it seems to describe emmulating the das signals for a bad key or ezs.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 11-29-2012

Hopefully i will have the equipment in a couple of days. I will keep you updated!

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 01-27-2013

I did not get the emulators to work... And I kind of have given up the original ECU thing.
Insted i have now received a Bosch Motorsport ECU.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 01-31-2013

Well this is good to know that those do not work. Let us know how the Bosch unit goes. I am getting close to doing the same thing. Which unit did you get?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - THE DIGGER - 01-31-2013

Can A common rail diesel not be ran from megasquirt or similar?

There basically the same as petrol engines in that they fire injectors? Huh

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Mark_M - 01-31-2013

(01-31-2013, 06:15 PM)THE DIGGER Can A common rail diesel not be ran from megasquirt or similar?

There basically the same as petrol engines in that they fire injectors?

No they aren't the same, they are very different. Assuming you get the full on mega squirt that can do sequential, diesel injectors fire several times in the same faze and MS cant do that. The injectors aren't 12 volt either as they run pique and hold which means they start at high voltage then drop down to a lower voltage. Basically the hardware would need to be changed along with the code and neither is going to happen as B&G aren't interested.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - THE DIGGER - 01-31-2013

(01-31-2013, 07:25 PM)Mark_M
(01-31-2013, 06:15 PM)THE DIGGER Can A common rail diesel not be ran from megasquirt or similar?

There basically the same as petrol engines in that they fire injectors?

No they aren't the same, they are very different. Assuming you get the full on mega squirt that can do sequential, diesel injectors fire several times in the same faze and MS cant do that. The injectors aren't 12 volt either as they run pique and hold which means they start at high voltage then drop down to a lower voltage. Basically the hardware would need to be changed along with the code and neither is going to happen as B&G aren't interested.

Thank you for clearing that up Cool

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 02-01-2013

I've got the MS15.1

Bosch Motorsport

A little worried that i dont have enough experience to calibrate it, but luckily a very good guidance is following.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - THE DIGGER - 02-03-2013

(02-01-2013, 04:58 AM)Steinkr I've got the MS15.1

Bosch Motorsport

A little worried that i dont have enough experience to calibrate it, but luckily a very good guidance is following.

just seen the price 5,297 euros!!

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Riverstick - 02-12-2013

(02-03-2013, 07:20 PM)THE DIGGER
(02-01-2013, 04:58 AM)Steinkr I've got the MS15.1

Bosch Motorsport

A little worried that i dont have enough experience to calibrate it, but luckily a very good guidance is following.

just seen the price 5,297 euros!!

Wouldn't this system make more sense at 1500 euros?

http://adaptronic.nl/home/nieuws.html

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Theo Munckhof - 02-12-2013

Hello Steinkr,

If needed I can offer support on the MS15.1 application work and or hardware. Work with it since 2007.

You got a PM
tmunckhof@yahoo.com

Best regards,
Theo v/d Munckhof

[Image: MS151_zpsf881edb3.jpg]

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 04-17-2014

Engine is running, and i have fooled around with it. Its really fun to see how easy it can be to make the engine run as you want.
But i have got an issue with the injectors.
I can't figure out the correct calibration of the fuel delivery. Nobody seem to have these specs. I have tried to calibrate them myself, with an air-driven high-pressure pump (2300 bar), new pressure sensor (3000 bar), injector driver (from national instruments) and a weight scale. Did not go so well as when the pressure is over 500 bar its almost like fumes coming out of the injector, hard to read the weight.
Can anybody help me with this? Anybody know where i can get this information? Is it possible to read the from the original ECU, as i have the read-out from that?

Thanks!

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - dieselmeken - 04-18-2014

(04-17-2014, 09:37 AM)Steinkr Engine is running, and i have fooled around with it. Its really fun to see how easy it can be to make the engine run as you want.
But i have got an issue with the injectors.
I can't figure out the correct calibration of the fuel delivery. Nobody seem to have these specs. I have tried to calibrate them myself, with an air-driven high-pressure pump (2300 bar), new pressure sensor (3000 bar), injector driver (from national instruments) and a weight scale. Did not go so well as when the pressure is over 500 bar its almost like fumes coming out of the injector, hard to read the weight.
Can anybody help me with this? Anybody know where i can get this information? Is it possible to read the from the original ECU, as i have the read-out from that?

Thanks!

Whay do you need? Pressure / opening time & injection value?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 04-18-2014

I would assume it is because the Bosch system uses calculated fuel volume for delivery. So you need the specs on the injectors to get the correct volume. So he is trying to get the correct calculation.

Have you tried contacting Bosch for the info?

I also wanted to ask how you like the Bosch software. I am still on the fence about using it for my project.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 04-22-2014

I need the correct opening time (uS) with fuel delivery (mm3/inj) @ current fuel pressure (MPa).

I have tried to get this information from Bosch, but the are not willing to help. They say this is confedential.

I use the Modas Sport from Bosch and i think its pretty easy to use. I would not hesitate to recomend it. What kind of project do you have?

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 04-23-2014

I have an om648. I am putting it into a w123 wagon. Would you mind sharing the file you have? I am curious to look through and see what is what. I have the software on my computer but need a project file to do much of anything.
I could maybe get a close us time at fuel pressure using my sds on a vehicle. I know they have quantity injection and fuel pressure is easy but I would maybe have to dig for the us. It might show it in developer mode. I will take a look next time I have a diesel in. I would of course only be able to get this from and om648 or om642 here in the U.S.

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - Steinkr - 04-24-2014

I've got the energizing map now! Got good help from e34_525tds/TRF Performance @ chiptuners.org

But i'm interested too see other map's as well. Good for comparison when i doing my own adjustments.

Was not alowed to post the file somehow. Try this link:

EDC15C6

RE: OM613 EDC15C6 - whipplem104 - 04-24-2014

I shot you a pm.