+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Mechanical CDI engine (/showthread.php?tid=4870)
Mechanical CDI engine - TvaiX - 09-03-2013
Hello,
Wanted to ask, maybe somebody know something about this project:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321188234230
I didn`t know that its possible to make mechanical common rail engine.
Technically that is good and works. Maybe somebody can comment how it`s done. Pump, injectors...?
At last I bought right mechanical pump from Germany any day to send it to me. Was thinking to send it in winter to Myna for rebuild, but starting to get curious maybe switch better for that money from Om605 to 270CDI or 320CDI, depending weight...
thanks,
Casper
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - Tito - 09-03-2013
I don't think it's that hard to build one. Get a pump and some injectors that fit an your basically done. Set pump timing.
However the modern common rail Diesel engines have a very smooth combustion compared to a mechanical ip. A common rail Diesel engine can have up to 5 injections in a single compression/combustion stroke. For smooth running and regeneration of an partial (?) filter.
So I thing internals are going to take a beat with those hard knocking mechanical injectors.
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - MFSuper90 - 09-03-2013
HEUI systems were the very beginning of common rail systems, they were mechanical.
I think it could be done mechanically, but not as well as modern day common rails
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - offroaddieselhu - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 06:43 AM)MFSuper90 HEUI systems were the very beginning of common rail systems, they were mechanical.
I think it could be done mechanically, but not as well as modern day common rails
hi
simpler and always works
offroaddieselhu
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - TvaiX - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 06:29 AM)Tito I don't think it's that hard to build one. Get a pump and some injectors that fit an your basically done. Set pump timing.
However the modern common rail Diesel engines have a very smooth combustion compared to a mechanical ip. A common rail Diesel engine can have up to 5 injections in a single compression/combustion stroke. For smooth running and regeneration of an partial (?) filter.
So I thing internals are going to take a beat with those hard knocking mechanical injectors.
There is mention of some Bosch E-Pump, don`t know what it is...
Yes, user have pointed to day about common rail diesel smooth combustion and mechanically can damage engine pretty fast maybe...
Also, he thinks that it is possible convert mechanically, but no better than OM606 or OM605... and those can survive more and get more power comparing common rail...
The question is so, what was the point to make mechanical CDI engine?
Was thinking maybe somebody understands here...
Or maybe that's evolution, harder to get old last era engines and now starting to convert mechanically CDI engines...
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - anjay - 09-03-2013
Sounds like someone converted CDI engine to mechanical IP. Most likely in order to avoid CAN while doing convertion.
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - offroaddieselhu - 09-04-2013
Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - Simpler=Better - 09-04-2013
Mechanical > electrical if you want power without spending $$$,$$$,$$$. This isn't any different than removing the TBI from a v8 and adapting a performance carburetor back in the 80's. One day DIY CDI will be affordable but it really isn't right now.
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - Mark_M - 09-04-2013
(09-04-2013, 06:03 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
You're right but I think the CDI engines are like that more because of the fuel injection that the mechanical parts.
Personally I think if you converted to mechanical pump you would end up with little more than a 606. Pretty sure it wouldn't give you anything like enough of an advantage to make it worth all the effort. DI engines don't rev so you would be loosing a good chunk or RPM for a start. Far better to keep it common rail and buy an aftermarket ECU. It would probably cost about the same as well.
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - offroaddieselhu - 09-04-2013
(09-04-2013, 11:27 AM)Mark_M(09-04-2013, 06:03 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
You're right but I think the CDI engines are like that more because of the fuel injection that the mechanical parts.
Personally I think if you converted to mechanical pump you would end up with little more than a 606. Pretty sure it wouldn't give you anything like enough of an advantage to make it worth all the effort. DI engines don't rev so you would be loosing a good chunk or RPM for a start. Far better to keep it common rail and buy an aftermarket ECU. It would probably cost about the same as well.
Hi,
I think the cammonrail is not the best choice in 1 m height water.
For me the setting an Ve pump is much more easier than to write a chip by somebody, whom I explain what i would like to reach.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - TvaiX - 09-04-2013
I`m little curious to try to put common rail in my offroad Gwagen...
But I`m concerned about beating internals what Tito mentioned. Also if really torque is bigger, it revs lower, so, maybe not so big advantages in common rail mechanical engines...That builder published his Dyno, maybe somebody can comment about his power better?
Offcourse for 1m underwater in offroad I want best mechanical engine with less weight and also I converted my car to 24 volt for faster electric winch... No glow plugs for OM605 24volt
Somebody maybe know weight differences for OM606/OM605 and OM647/OM648 ?
Offroaddieselhu if you know that builder, maybe can you ask, does in pictures that is w463 PTO?
How I understand Mercedes build it on paper, but not build in real life...
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - AlanMcR - 09-06-2013
(09-04-2013, 06:03 PM)TvaiX I`m little curious to try to put common rail in my offroad Gwagen...
That builder published his Dyno, maybe somebody can comment about his power better?
Offcourse for 1m underwater in offroad I want best mechanical engine with less weight and also I converted my car to 24 volt for faster electric winch... No glow plugs for OM605 24volt
Somebody maybe know weight differences for OM606/OM605 and OM647/OM648 ?
Offroaddieselhu if you know that builder, maybe can you ask, does in pictures that is w463 PTO?
The OM606 G with electronic controls is easily good for 3M of water. The electronics are sealed and mounted pretty high up. You would need to raise the air intake (and not care about stinky carpets).
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - majesty78 - 09-06-2013
Mercedes released a stripped down G320CDI for such purposes.
All electronics are located in cabin, no carpets and pretty much everything else waterproof.
Not cheap fun though IIRC about €120.000.- as new....
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - TvaiX - 09-06-2013
(09-06-2013, 03:17 PM)majesty78 Mercedes released a stripped down G320CDI for such purposes.
All electronics are located in cabin, no carpets and pretty much everything else waterproof.
Not cheap fun though IIRC about €120.000.- as new....
You think MB G EDITION PUR?
I like all mechanical, less to think about, don`t need to ask somebody to write me a map, etc, etc...
Don`t have problems when for instance in offroad alternator stops to work, don`t have problems with chip heating... So only mechanical for me.. My G can now go without electric at all, even stops mechanically...
So thinking about mechanical CDI project possibility...
What injectors to put for mechanical VE pump swap?
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - EDH_Performance - 09-06-2013
here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - offroaddieselhu - 09-07-2013
(09-06-2013, 08:08 PM)EDH_Performance here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
It ís not suitable for every dai use (what is it for?)
offroaddieselhu
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - EDH_Performance - 09-07-2013
(09-07-2013, 02:20 AM)offroaddieselhu(09-06-2013, 08:08 PM)EDH_Performance here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
It ís not suitable for every dai use (what is it for?)
offroaddieselhu
It is a race car, but more driveable now with gørans bosch m-pump
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - HaavardPYA - 09-07-2013
Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - barrote - 09-07-2013
hy fine people,
the answear for your questions is "caterpillar 3116 engine" common rail first generation, no electrics needed. why dont u consider using one in a g car?? , torque, hum this engine use to move the D6 bulldozer, and many other stuff alike !! the question is have u a strong enough transmission?
regards
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - EDH_Performance - 09-07-2013
(09-07-2013, 04:06 PM)HaavardPYA Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
No, A-pump is big and slow, around 3000rpm!
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - TvaiX - 09-08-2013
(09-07-2013, 06:27 PM)barrote hy fine people,
the answear for your questions is "caterpillar 3116 engine" common rail first generation, no electrics needed. why dont u consider using one in a g car?? , torque, hum this engine use to move the D6 bulldozer, and many other stuff alike !! the question is have u a strong enough transmission?
regards
1. MOT problems
My offroad car still street legal...2. Weight is big importance in offroad. Thats why I even use 5cyl not 6cyl engines...
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - DiseaselWeasel - 09-08-2013
So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - TvaiX - 09-08-2013
(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
OM606 is DOHC, OM602 is SOHC, don`t see what is better in your choice only worth...
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - DiseaselWeasel - 09-08-2013
More valves = better? In that case I'm out...
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - EDH_Performance - 09-08-2013
(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
^^
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - offroaddieselhu - 09-08-2013
(09-08-2013, 04:01 PM)EDH_Performance(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - MFSuper90 - 09-08-2013
(09-07-2013, 07:14 PM)EDH_Performance(09-07-2013, 04:06 PM)HaavardPYA Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
No, A-pump is big and slow, around 3000rpm!
Not all of them are! Several guys run a-pumps on their pulling tractors and run 5000+rpm!
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - Simpler=Better - 09-09-2013
I won't shoot down any idea-if you can make it happen go for it. As long as you're building it and having fun. No one likes stock engines
RE: Mechanical CDI engine - DiseaselWeasel - 09-09-2013
(09-08-2013, 04:01 PM)EDH_Performance 605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
You could add a cylinder whilst you'r at it ;-) That'll certainly sound like a big rig
I love the diesel sound of E290: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15aNaski_1I