Mechanical CDI engine
Mechanical CDI engine
09-03-2013, 03:04 AM
#1
Wanted to ask, maybe somebody know something about this project:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321188234230
I didn`t know that its possible to make mechanical common rail engine.
Technically that is good and works. Maybe somebody can comment how it`s done. Pump, injectors...?
At last I bought right mechanical pump from Germany any day to send it to me. Was thinking to send it in winter to Myna for rebuild, but starting to get curious maybe switch better for that money from Om605 to 270CDI or 320CDI, depending weight...
thanks,
Casper
Hello,
Wanted to ask, maybe somebody know something about this project:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321188234230
I didn`t know that its possible to make mechanical common rail engine.
Technically that is good and works. Maybe somebody can comment how it`s done. Pump, injectors...?
At last I bought right mechanical pump from Germany any day to send it to me. Was thinking to send it in winter to Myna for rebuild, but starting to get curious maybe switch better for that money from Om605 to 270CDI or 320CDI, depending weight...
thanks,
Casper
09-03-2013, 06:29 AM
#2
However the modern common rail Diesel engines have a very smooth combustion compared to a mechanical ip. A common rail Diesel engine can have up to 5 injections in a single compression/combustion stroke. For smooth running and regeneration of an partial (?) filter.
So I thing internals are going to take a beat with those hard knocking mechanical injectors.
This post was last modified: 09-03-2013, 06:30 AM by Tito.
I don't think it's that hard to build one. Get a pump and some injectors that fit an your basically done. Set pump timing.
However the modern common rail Diesel engines have a very smooth combustion compared to a mechanical ip. A common rail Diesel engine can have up to 5 injections in a single compression/combustion stroke. For smooth running and regeneration of an partial (?) filter.
So I thing internals are going to take a beat with those hard knocking mechanical injectors.
09-03-2013, 06:43 AM
#3
I think it could be done mechanically, but not as well as modern day common rails
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
HEUI systems were the very beginning of common rail systems, they were mechanical.
I think it could be done mechanically, but not as well as modern day common rails
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
09-03-2013, 03:11 PM
#4
(09-03-2013, 06:43 AM)MFSuper90 HEUI systems were the very beginning of common rail systems, they were mechanical.
I think it could be done mechanically, but not as well as modern day common rails
hi
simpler and always works
offroaddieselhu
offroaddieselhu
09-03-2013, 03:11 PM #4(09-03-2013, 06:43 AM)MFSuper90 HEUI systems were the very beginning of common rail systems, they were mechanical.
I think it could be done mechanically, but not as well as modern day common rails
hi
simpler and always works
offroaddieselhu
09-03-2013, 03:51 PM
#5
(09-03-2013, 06:29 AM)Tito I don't think it's that hard to build one. Get a pump and some injectors that fit an your basically done. Set pump timing.
However the modern common rail Diesel engines have a very smooth combustion compared to a mechanical ip. A common rail Diesel engine can have up to 5 injections in a single compression/combustion stroke. For smooth running and regeneration of an partial (?) filter.
So I thing internals are going to take a beat with those hard knocking mechanical injectors.
There is mention of some Bosch E-Pump, don`t know what it is...
Yes, user have pointed to day about common rail diesel smooth combustion and mechanically can damage engine pretty fast maybe...
Also, he thinks that it is possible convert mechanically, but no better than OM606 or OM605... and those can survive more and get more power comparing common rail...
The question is so, what was the point to make mechanical CDI engine?
Was thinking maybe somebody understands here...
Or maybe that's evolution, harder to get old last era engines and now starting to convert mechanically CDI engines...
(09-03-2013, 06:29 AM)Tito I don't think it's that hard to build one. Get a pump and some injectors that fit an your basically done. Set pump timing.
However the modern common rail Diesel engines have a very smooth combustion compared to a mechanical ip. A common rail Diesel engine can have up to 5 injections in a single compression/combustion stroke. For smooth running and regeneration of an partial (?) filter.
So I thing internals are going to take a beat with those hard knocking mechanical injectors.
There is mention of some Bosch E-Pump, don`t know what it is...
Yes, user have pointed to day about common rail diesel smooth combustion and mechanically can damage engine pretty fast maybe...
Also, he thinks that it is possible convert mechanically, but no better than OM606 or OM605... and those can survive more and get more power comparing common rail...
The question is so, what was the point to make mechanical CDI engine?
Was thinking maybe somebody understands here...
Or maybe that's evolution, harder to get old last era engines and now starting to convert mechanically CDI engines...
09-03-2013, 09:46 PM
#6
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - gone to better home
1987 Dodge Maxivan with OM603 and Goran’s 7.5 backroads terror
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1989 300TE - parts
1991 300TE - backyards decor
1991 300TD - Barrote’s 7.5
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd with DSL1 now
1998 ML320 - snow ride
2014 Sprinter 2500 - Malone’s tune + pedal box
Sounds like someone converted CDI engine to mechanical IP. Most likely in order to avoid CAN while doing convertion.
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - gone to better home
1987 Dodge Maxivan with OM603 and Goran’s 7.5 backroads terror
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1989 300TE - parts
1991 300TE - backyards decor
1991 300TD - Barrote’s 7.5
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd with DSL1 now
1998 ML320 - snow ride
2014 Sprinter 2500 - Malone’s tune + pedal box
09-04-2013, 06:03 AM
#7
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
offroaddieselhu
09-04-2013, 06:03 AM #7Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
09-04-2013, 08:09 AM
#8
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-04-2013, 08:09 AM #8Mechanical > electrical if you want power without spending $$$,$$$,$$$. This isn't any different than removing the TBI from a v8 and adapting a performance carburetor back in the 80's. One day DIY CDI will be affordable but it really isn't right now.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-04-2013, 11:27 AM
#9
(09-04-2013, 06:03 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
You're right but I think the CDI engines are like that more because of the fuel injection that the mechanical parts.
Personally I think if you converted to mechanical pump you would end up with little more than a 606. Pretty sure it wouldn't give you anything like enough of an advantage to make it worth all the effort. DI engines don't rev so you would be loosing a good chunk or RPM for a start. Far better to keep it common rail and buy an aftermarket ECU. It would probably cost about the same as well.
(09-04-2013, 06:03 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
You're right but I think the CDI engines are like that more because of the fuel injection that the mechanical parts.
Personally I think if you converted to mechanical pump you would end up with little more than a 606. Pretty sure it wouldn't give you anything like enough of an advantage to make it worth all the effort. DI engines don't rev so you would be loosing a good chunk or RPM for a start. Far better to keep it common rail and buy an aftermarket ECU. It would probably cost about the same as well.
09-04-2013, 12:36 PM
#10
(09-04-2013, 11:27 AM)Mark_M(09-04-2013, 06:03 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
You're right but I think the CDI engines are like that more because of the fuel injection that the mechanical parts.
Personally I think if you converted to mechanical pump you would end up with little more than a 606. Pretty sure it wouldn't give you anything like enough of an advantage to make it worth all the effort. DI engines don't rev so you would be loosing a good chunk or RPM for a start. Far better to keep it common rail and buy an aftermarket ECU. It would probably cost about the same as well.
Hi,
I think the cammonrail is not the best choice in 1 m height water.
For me the setting an Ve pump is much more easier than to write a chip by somebody, whom I explain what i would like to reach.
Offroaddieselhu
offroaddieselhu
09-04-2013, 12:36 PM #10(09-04-2013, 11:27 AM)Mark_M(09-04-2013, 06:03 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
In the comperison of OM605 and OM606:
The direct diesel engine is much more usable than the OM605 or OM606 for offroad purpos. It's heat harder and much more torque.
I don't think that any damage would be for CDI engine from VE pump.
I think for off-road is only benefits if you have not so much electric parts.
I know the builder of this car.
Offroaddieselhu
You're right but I think the CDI engines are like that more because of the fuel injection that the mechanical parts.
Personally I think if you converted to mechanical pump you would end up with little more than a 606. Pretty sure it wouldn't give you anything like enough of an advantage to make it worth all the effort. DI engines don't rev so you would be loosing a good chunk or RPM for a start. Far better to keep it common rail and buy an aftermarket ECU. It would probably cost about the same as well.
Hi,
I think the cammonrail is not the best choice in 1 m height water.
For me the setting an Ve pump is much more easier than to write a chip by somebody, whom I explain what i would like to reach.
Offroaddieselhu
09-04-2013, 06:03 PM
#11
But I`m concerned about beating internals what Tito mentioned. Also if really torque is bigger, it revs lower, so, maybe not so big advantages in common rail mechanical engines...That builder published his Dyno, maybe somebody can comment about his power better?
Offcourse for 1m underwater in offroad I want best mechanical engine with less weight and also I converted my car to 24 volt for faster electric winch... No glow plugs for OM605 24volt
Somebody maybe know weight differences for OM606/OM605 and OM647/OM648 ?
Offroaddieselhu if you know that builder, maybe can you ask, does in pictures that is w463 PTO?
How I understand Mercedes build it on paper, but not build in real life...
I`m little curious to try to put common rail in my offroad Gwagen... But I`m concerned about beating internals what Tito mentioned. Also if really torque is bigger, it revs lower, so, maybe not so big advantages in common rail mechanical engines...
That builder published his Dyno, maybe somebody can comment about his power better?
Offcourse for 1m underwater in offroad I want best mechanical engine with less weight and also I converted my car to 24 volt for faster electric winch... No glow plugs for OM605 24volt
Somebody maybe know weight differences for OM606/OM605 and OM647/OM648 ?
Offroaddieselhu if you know that builder, maybe can you ask, does in pictures that is w463 PTO? How I understand Mercedes build it on paper, but not build in real life...
09-06-2013, 02:36 PM
#12
(09-04-2013, 06:03 PM)TvaiX I`m little curious to try to put common rail in my offroad Gwagen...
That builder published his Dyno, maybe somebody can comment about his power better?
Offcourse for 1m underwater in offroad I want best mechanical engine with less weight and also I converted my car to 24 volt for faster electric winch... No glow plugs for OM605 24volt
Somebody maybe know weight differences for OM606/OM605 and OM647/OM648 ?
Offroaddieselhu if you know that builder, maybe can you ask, does in pictures that is w463 PTO?
The OM606 G with electronic controls is easily good for 3M of water. The electronics are sealed and mounted pretty high up. You would need to raise the air intake (and not care about stinky carpets).
(09-04-2013, 06:03 PM)TvaiX I`m little curious to try to put common rail in my offroad Gwagen...
That builder published his Dyno, maybe somebody can comment about his power better?
Offcourse for 1m underwater in offroad I want best mechanical engine with less weight and also I converted my car to 24 volt for faster electric winch... No glow plugs for OM605 24volt
Somebody maybe know weight differences for OM606/OM605 and OM647/OM648 ?
Offroaddieselhu if you know that builder, maybe can you ask, does in pictures that is w463 PTO?
The OM606 G with electronic controls is easily good for 3M of water. The electronics are sealed and mounted pretty high up. You would need to raise the air intake (and not care about stinky carpets).
09-06-2013, 03:17 PM
#13
All electronics are located in cabin, no carpets and pretty much everything else waterproof.
Not cheap fun though IIRC about €120.000.- as new....
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Mercedes released a stripped down G320CDI for such purposes.
All electronics are located in cabin, no carpets and pretty much everything else waterproof.
Not cheap fun though IIRC about €120.000.- as new....
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
09-06-2013, 04:37 PM
#14
(09-06-2013, 03:17 PM)majesty78 Mercedes released a stripped down G320CDI for such purposes.
All electronics are located in cabin, no carpets and pretty much everything else waterproof.
Not cheap fun though IIRC about €120.000.- as new....
You think MB G EDITION PUR?
I like all mechanical, less to think about, don`t need to ask somebody to write me a map, etc, etc...
Don`t have problems when for instance in offroad alternator stops to work, don`t have problems with chip heating... So only mechanical for me.. My G can now go without electric at all, even stops mechanically...
So thinking about mechanical CDI project possibility...
What injectors to put for mechanical VE pump swap?
(09-06-2013, 03:17 PM)majesty78 Mercedes released a stripped down G320CDI for such purposes.
All electronics are located in cabin, no carpets and pretty much everything else waterproof.
Not cheap fun though IIRC about €120.000.- as new....
You think MB G EDITION PUR?
I like all mechanical, less to think about, don`t need to ask somebody to write me a map, etc, etc...
Don`t have problems when for instance in offroad alternator stops to work, don`t have problems with chip heating... So only mechanical for me.. My G can now go without electric at all, even stops mechanically...
So thinking about mechanical CDI project possibility...
What injectors to put for mechanical VE pump swap?
09-06-2013, 08:08 PM
#15
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
EDH_Performance
09-06-2013, 08:08 PM #15here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
09-07-2013, 02:20 AM
#16
(09-06-2013, 08:08 PM)EDH_Performance here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
It ís not suitable for every dai use (what is it for?)
offroaddieselhu
offroaddieselhu
09-07-2013, 02:20 AM #16(09-06-2013, 08:08 PM)EDH_Performance here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
It ís not suitable for every dai use (what is it for?)
offroaddieselhu
09-07-2013, 02:17 PM
#17
(09-07-2013, 02:20 AM)offroaddieselhu(09-06-2013, 08:08 PM)EDH_Performance here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
It ís not suitable for every dai use (what is it for?)
offroaddieselhu
It is a race car, but more driveable now with gørans bosch m-pump
EDH_Performance
09-07-2013, 02:17 PM #17(09-07-2013, 02:20 AM)offroaddieselhu(09-06-2013, 08:08 PM)EDH_Performance here is one bmw m57d30 commonrail engine with bosch A-pump (now gørans M-pump), and volvo direct injectors
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2973.html
It ís not suitable for every dai use (what is it for?)
offroaddieselhu
It is a race car, but more driveable now with gørans bosch m-pump
09-07-2013, 06:27 PM
#19
the answear for your questions is "caterpillar 3116 engine" common rail first generation, no electrics needed. why dont u consider using one in a g car?? , torque, hum this engine use to move the D6 bulldozer, and many other stuff alike !! the question is have u a strong enough transmission?
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hy fine people,
the answear for your questions is "caterpillar 3116 engine" common rail first generation, no electrics needed. why dont u consider using one in a g car?? , torque, hum this engine use to move the D6 bulldozer, and many other stuff alike !! the question is have u a strong enough transmission?
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
09-07-2013, 07:14 PM
#20
(09-07-2013, 04:06 PM)HaavardPYA Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
No, A-pump is big and slow, around 3000rpm!
EDH_Performance
09-07-2013, 07:14 PM #20(09-07-2013, 04:06 PM)HaavardPYA Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
No, A-pump is big and slow, around 3000rpm!
09-08-2013, 01:31 AM
#21
(09-07-2013, 06:27 PM)barrote hy fine people,
the answear for your questions is "caterpillar 3116 engine" common rail first generation, no electrics needed. why dont u consider using one in a g car?? , torque, hum this engine use to move the D6 bulldozer, and many other stuff alike !! the question is have u a strong enough transmission?
regards
1. MOT problems
My offroad car still street legal...2. Weight is big importance in offroad. Thats why I even use 5cyl not 6cyl engines...
(09-07-2013, 06:27 PM)barrote hy fine people,
the answear for your questions is "caterpillar 3116 engine" common rail first generation, no electrics needed. why dont u consider using one in a g car?? , torque, hum this engine use to move the D6 bulldozer, and many other stuff alike !! the question is have u a strong enough transmission?
regards
1. MOT problems
My offroad car still street legal...2. Weight is big importance in offroad. Thats why I even use 5cyl not 6cyl engines...
09-08-2013, 10:38 AM
#22
DiseaselWeasel
09-08-2013, 10:38 AM #22So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
09-08-2013, 03:23 PM
#23
(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
OM606 is DOHC, OM602 is SOHC, don`t see what is better in your choice only worth...
09-08-2013, 04:01 PM
#25
(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
^^
EDH_Performance
09-08-2013, 04:01 PM #25(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
^^
09-08-2013, 04:14 PM
#26
(09-08-2013, 04:01 PM)EDH_Performance(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
offroaddieselhu
09-08-2013, 04:14 PM #26(09-08-2013, 04:01 PM)EDH_Performance(09-08-2013, 10:38 AM)DiseaselWeasel So basically this is not a CDI anymore, but a 3.2l direct injection engine. MB build this themselfes: 602.982 / OM602 DE29LA. Which would be my choice for a transplant...
605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
09-08-2013, 10:12 PM
#27
(09-07-2013, 07:14 PM)EDH_Performance(09-07-2013, 04:06 PM)HaavardPYA Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
No, A-pump is big and slow, around 3000rpm!
Not all of them are! Several guys run a-pumps on their pulling tractors and run 5000+rpm!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(09-07-2013, 07:14 PM)EDH_Performance(09-07-2013, 04:06 PM)HaavardPYA Can you mix the a-pump to m-pump, visa versa?
No, A-pump is big and slow, around 3000rpm!
Not all of them are! Several guys run a-pumps on their pulling tractors and run 5000+rpm!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
09-09-2013, 12:25 PM
#28
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-09-2013, 12:25 PM #28I won't shoot down any idea-if you can make it happen go for it. As long as you're building it and having fun. No one likes stock engines
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-09-2013, 12:46 PM
#29
(09-08-2013, 04:01 PM)EDH_Performance 605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
You could add a cylinder whilst you'r at it ;-) That'll certainly sound like a big rig
I love the diesel sound of E290: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15aNaski_1I
DiseaselWeasel
09-09-2013, 12:46 PM #29(09-08-2013, 04:01 PM)EDH_Performance 605 with 602.968 pistons, remove the prechambers and insert direct injectors
You could add a cylinder whilst you'r at it ;-) That'll certainly sound like a big rig
I love the diesel sound of E290: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15aNaski_1I
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