Intercooling OM602
Intercooling OM602
04-16-2010, 12:05 PM
#1
I thought it might be possible to mount a small SAAB intercooler in front of the passenger side front wheel, mirroring the way the oil cooler is installed on the drivers side. But this intercooler is very small- and I'm not sure if it would offer much advantage.
This post was last modified: 04-16-2010, 12:05 PM by casioqv.
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
I'm looking for a way to intercool my 1987 190D Turbo without hacking the car all up. Does anyone have any photos, examples, or ideas?
I thought it might be possible to mount a small SAAB intercooler in front of the passenger side front wheel, mirroring the way the oil cooler is installed on the drivers side. But this intercooler is very small- and I'm not sure if it would offer much advantage.
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
04-16-2010, 01:05 PM
#2
The hardest part is going to be welding a new flange on the intake or modding the cross-over pipe so that you can have an intercooler
![[Image: Copy%20of%20DSC00089.JPG]](http://www.daham.org/16vt/projects/merc_w201/Copy%20of%20DSC00089.JPG)
![[Image: IMG_2374.jpg]](http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p109/190emerc/IMG_2374.jpg)
There was a thread around here that had a pic of someone with a OM60X turbo manifold with a block-off plate for the crossover pipe and a 3" pipe flange welded on the other side.
Yeah this guy,
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...e+manifold
This post was last modified: 04-16-2010, 01:14 PM by Kozuka.
I personally think the best method for the W201 is squeezed in front of the radiator but I don't know how well it would work. Or hacking up the bumper and mounting in front of the lower radiator support will also work. But as for other spots unless your going A/W I dunno.
The hardest part is going to be welding a new flange on the intake or modding the cross-over pipe so that you can have an intercooler
There was a thread around here that had a pic of someone with a OM60X turbo manifold with a block-off plate for the crossover pipe and a 3" pipe flange welded on the other side.
Yeah this guy,
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...e+manifold
04-16-2010, 01:36 PM
#3
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
I have an eBay intercooler that would fit behind the bumper like that, but I feel bad about hacking up a 100% original 190D Turbo. Has anyone installed an intercooler without cutting into the chassis?
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
04-16-2010, 02:01 PM
#4
edit: I had a stupid moment
This post was last modified: 04-16-2010, 02:04 PM by Kozuka.
My suggestion would have to be a A/W Intercooler. Modded Cross-Over Pipe (delete egr) re-clock the turbo and mount the A/W intercooler above the turbo take air from the turbo to the intake. Put the new intercooler radiator infront of the air conditioning condenser.
edit: I had a stupid moment
04-16-2010, 03:17 PM
#6
(04-16-2010, 03:00 PM)Jtn190D I have the same car was trying to figer out how to install a intercooler this morning. If any one has any pics that would be Great!!!
Cool that there's so many of us on this forum! Mercedes only made about ~1200 I think! I wonder how many are left?
I found a website link with somebody playing around with intercooler possibilities on a W124, but none of them look very promising to me:
http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/
They did have an example of how the Saab intercooler might fit. I played around with this at the junkyard last week, and I'm not so sure it would work because it comes so close to the tire, and the plumbing would hang so low to the ground:
![[Image: Saab_IC_side1.jpg]](http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/W124.133_Sabb_IC/Saab_IC_side1.jpg)
I already own an intercooler like this, but he really hacked the body and bumper up to fit it:
![[Image: intercooler_installed2.jpg]](http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/Zeitgeist/intercooler_installed2.jpg)
This post was last modified: 04-16-2010, 03:19 PM by casioqv.
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
(04-16-2010, 03:00 PM)Jtn190D I have the same car was trying to figer out how to install a intercooler this morning. If any one has any pics that would be Great!!!
Cool that there's so many of us on this forum! Mercedes only made about ~1200 I think! I wonder how many are left?
I found a website link with somebody playing around with intercooler possibilities on a W124, but none of them look very promising to me:
http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/
They did have an example of how the Saab intercooler might fit. I played around with this at the junkyard last week, and I'm not so sure it would work because it comes so close to the tire, and the plumbing would hang so low to the ground:
I already own an intercooler like this, but he really hacked the body and bumper up to fit it:
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
04-16-2010, 04:12 PM
#7
yankneck696
04-16-2010, 04:12 PM #7Could use the AC to intercool, or use AC to chill water. no alterations to structure or appearance.
04-16-2010, 05:05 PM
#8
ForcedInduction
04-16-2010, 05:05 PM
#8
Running the air tubes is the most difficult part of adding an air intercooler. If minimum body modification is your goal then a water intercooler is the best. Routing 5/8" rubber water hoses is far easier than 2-3" aluminum tubes.
04-16-2010, 05:19 PM
#9
450x400x76mm cooler is just fine at w201 and w124 body Mercedes.
Its easier install air cooler than water to air, and its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,
This post was last modified: 04-16-2010, 05:20 PM by jeemu.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
Äh. You dont need modified your car body at all if you want there at big cooler.
450x400x76mm cooler is just fine at w201 and w124 body Mercedes.
Its easier install air cooler than water to air, and its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
04-17-2010, 06:30 AM
#10
(04-16-2010, 05:19 PM)jeemu its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,Only if you're buying new parts and a radiator advertised as being an A/W intercooler radiator.
ForcedInduction
04-17-2010, 06:30 AM
#10
(04-16-2010, 05:19 PM)jeemu its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,Only if you're buying new parts and a radiator advertised as being an A/W intercooler radiator.
04-17-2010, 04:32 PM
#12
(04-17-2010, 06:30 AM)ForcedInductionMight be, but there is a lot more work go water/air cooler than just air cooler.(04-16-2010, 05:19 PM)jeemu its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,Only if you're buying new parts and a radiator advertised as being an A/W intercooler radiator.
Water/air you need cooler, vaerpump, wate tank, own radiator for those and of course a lot fabrication.
Air cooler you need cooler and boost pipes.
Everyone can think what is easiest and cheapest to do.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(04-17-2010, 06:30 AM)ForcedInductionMight be, but there is a lot more work go water/air cooler than just air cooler.(04-16-2010, 05:19 PM)jeemu its cheaper because uou dont need radiators for that or water tank,Only if you're buying new parts and a radiator advertised as being an A/W intercooler radiator.
Water/air you need cooler, vaerpump, wate tank, own radiator for those and of course a lot fabrication.
Air cooler you need cooler and boost pipes.
Everyone can think what is easiest and cheapest to do.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
04-17-2010, 05:07 PM
#13
(04-17-2010, 04:32 PM)jeemu Air cooler you need cooler and boost pipes.
Not really, fabrication is no different than A/A. You still need the same mounting brackets but air requires large diameter metal pipes route through constricted areas and both require some aluminum cutting and welding and/or a manifold swap.
A radiator can be anything, from an expensive purpose built radiator to a transmission cooler, oil cooler, A/C condenser or even an old heater core.
An electric pump is dead simple, find a 1amp switched power source and pretty much every MB in the junkyards has at least 1 circulation pump that can be bought for around $15.
A water tank isn't necessary, a $5 motorcycle filler neck is all thats needed.
This post was last modified: 04-17-2010, 05:08 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
04-17-2010, 05:07 PM
#13
(04-17-2010, 04:32 PM)jeemu Air cooler you need cooler and boost pipes.
Not really, fabrication is no different than A/A. You still need the same mounting brackets but air requires large diameter metal pipes route through constricted areas and both require some aluminum cutting and welding and/or a manifold swap.
A radiator can be anything, from an expensive purpose built radiator to a transmission cooler, oil cooler, A/C condenser or even an old heater core.
An electric pump is dead simple, find a 1amp switched power source and pretty much every MB in the junkyards has at least 1 circulation pump that can be bought for around $15.
A water tank isn't necessary, a $5 motorcycle filler neck is all thats needed.
04-17-2010, 11:10 PM
#14
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
04-17-2010, 11:10 PM #14Tomnic I like your set up! That looks almost like it meant to be there from Mercedes! very clean!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
04-18-2010, 02:26 AM
#15
But I am with Forced that it is not possible to mount an air/air on this car without cutting on the car or/and to keep the outside appearance stock.
The bumper has no internal space and to route the tubes from below will too close to the floor and will be visible.
The engine compartment of the 124 is kind of closed.
With my set up there is no need to cut something and the tubing is very short.
On top I can get these ICs for 150 EUR as many as I want, so the set up is reproducible.
Tom
(04-17-2010, 11:10 PM)willbhere4u Tomnic I like your set up! That looks almost like it meant to be there from Mercedes! very clean!
"clean" is what it will be when I finished.
But I am with Forced that it is not possible to mount an air/air on this car without cutting on the car or/and to keep the outside appearance stock.
The bumper has no internal space and to route the tubes from below will too close to the floor and will be visible.
The engine compartment of the 124 is kind of closed.
With my set up there is no need to cut something and the tubing is very short.
On top I can get these ICs for 150 EUR as many as I want, so the set up is reproducible.
Tom
(04-17-2010, 11:10 PM)willbhere4u Tomnic I like your set up! That looks almost like it meant to be there from Mercedes! very clean!
04-18-2010, 06:04 AM
#16
(04-18-2010, 02:26 AM)tomnik But I am with Forced that it is not possible to mount an air/air on this car without cutting on the car or/and to keep the outside appearance stock.Thats my point. I had to cut out one of the radiator crossmember braces and part of the headlight backplate to mount the A-A on my 240 and keep the external appearance looking stock, and even then I could just barely squeeze 2.5" tubes through and it required 6 90* angles with 7' of air travel.
Comparatively my A-W uses the factory A/C condenser as a radiator, factory circulation pump as the main pump, required zero body modifications and has only (the equivalent of) 4 90* bends with a 3" tube diameter and only 3' of air travel.
The only downsides are the water system is about 10lbs heavier and $40 more than the air. They both do the same job very well so its down to deciding if you want to cut bodyparts to keep it hidden, have a big intercooler sticking out under the bumper or spend a little more money for a nearly self-contained water system.
Quote:With my set up there is no need to cut something and the tubing is very short.That is a very nice system. What will you be using for the pump and radiator?
On top I can get these ICs for 150 EUR as many as I want, so the set up is reproducible.
This post was last modified: 04-18-2010, 06:11 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
04-18-2010, 06:04 AM
#16
(04-18-2010, 02:26 AM)tomnik But I am with Forced that it is not possible to mount an air/air on this car without cutting on the car or/and to keep the outside appearance stock.Thats my point. I had to cut out one of the radiator crossmember braces and part of the headlight backplate to mount the A-A on my 240 and keep the external appearance looking stock, and even then I could just barely squeeze 2.5" tubes through and it required 6 90* angles with 7' of air travel.
Comparatively my A-W uses the factory A/C condenser as a radiator, factory circulation pump as the main pump, required zero body modifications and has only (the equivalent of) 4 90* bends with a 3" tube diameter and only 3' of air travel.
The only downsides are the water system is about 10lbs heavier and $40 more than the air. They both do the same job very well so its down to deciding if you want to cut bodyparts to keep it hidden, have a big intercooler sticking out under the bumper or spend a little more money for a nearly self-contained water system.
Quote:With my set up there is no need to cut something and the tubing is very short.That is a very nice system. What will you be using for the pump and radiator?
On top I can get these ICs for 150 EUR as many as I want, so the set up is reproducible.
04-18-2010, 06:16 AM
#17
(04-18-2010, 06:04 AM)ForcedInduction That is a very nice system. What will you be using for the pump and radiator?
2nd stock 124 aux pump.
For radiator I have the choice: additional AC condenser or (what I already prepared) a heat exchanger out of a small French car for compartment heating.
I also have cross moto bike radiators (alu) but they don't fit as well as the French thing.
I might take a closer look on the AC condenser for even better "hidden" solution and more area.
Tom
(04-18-2010, 06:04 AM)ForcedInduction That is a very nice system. What will you be using for the pump and radiator?
2nd stock 124 aux pump.
For radiator I have the choice: additional AC condenser or (what I already prepared) a heat exchanger out of a small French car for compartment heating.
I also have cross moto bike radiators (alu) but they don't fit as well as the French thing.
I might take a closer look on the AC condenser for even better "hidden" solution and more area.
Tom
04-19-2010, 03:47 PM
#18
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
![[Image: 3803751914_8fdca63138_o.jpg]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3803751914_8fdca63138_o.jpg)
I wonder if this intercooler would fit where the cross over pipe is. It would need only one 90* turn.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
ForcedInduction
04-19-2010, 04:21 PM
#19
I doubt it would clear the hood without adding a "power bulge".
04-19-2010, 06:48 PM
#20
(04-19-2010, 03:47 PM)Deni I wonder if this intercooler would fit where the cross over pipe is. It would need only one 90* turn.
I think I will have to agree with FI on this one.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
04-19-2010, 06:48 PM #20(04-19-2010, 03:47 PM)Deni I wonder if this intercooler would fit where the cross over pipe is. It would need only one 90* turn.
I think I will have to agree with FI on this one.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
05-08-2010, 07:31 AM
#22
(04-16-2010, 03:17 PM)casioqv I found a website link with somebody playing around with intercooler possibilities on a W124, but none of them look very promising to me:
http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/
They did have an example of how the Saab intercooler might fit. I played around with this at the junkyard last week, and I'm not so sure it would work because it comes so close to the tire, and the plumbing would hang so low to the ground:
I already own an intercooler like this, but he really hacked the body and bumper up to fit it:
That is GSXR's site. The one I told you to seek out once you come over here.
I'd like to see what your OM602 will do at Fontana with the other mods but without the intercooler and then see what the intercooler does.
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
(04-16-2010, 03:17 PM)casioqv I found a website link with somebody playing around with intercooler possibilities on a W124, but none of them look very promising to me:
http://www.124performance.com/images/SuperTurbo/
They did have an example of how the Saab intercooler might fit. I played around with this at the junkyard last week, and I'm not so sure it would work because it comes so close to the tire, and the plumbing would hang so low to the ground:
I already own an intercooler like this, but he really hacked the body and bumper up to fit it:
That is GSXR's site. The one I told you to seek out once you come over here.
I'd like to see what your OM602 will do at Fontana with the other mods but without the intercooler and then see what the intercooler does.
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
05-08-2010, 09:35 AM
#23
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
With the stock injection pump, the IC is almost irrelevant... just add an EGT gauge and take your foot off the pedal when it gets to the wrong side of the dial. Now if you're going to put in 6mm elements (or larger), then yes, an IC would definitely be a good idea... along with a larger turbo! Have you turned up the pump already? Remember that there's no power gain just by adding the IC...
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
05-08-2010, 09:38 AM
#24
(05-08-2010, 07:31 AM)400Eric and then see what the intercooler does.
An intercooler doesn't do anything but let you hold the loud pedal longer without melting the pistons.
ForcedInduction
05-08-2010, 09:38 AM
#24
(05-08-2010, 07:31 AM)400Eric and then see what the intercooler does.
An intercooler doesn't do anything but let you hold the loud pedal longer without melting the pistons.
05-08-2010, 06:42 PM
#25
And if we talk about putting cooler in w201 orw124 you dont need to cut anything to put in there 400x450 or 300x600 air cooler and 2,5" boost pipes
and that all you need.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
This is good topic for show at someone little bodywork is easy and someone it inpossible. If you really want good water/air cooler. You need Cooler, waterpump, radiator, water tank and of course some wiring, boost pipes and water lines. These if you want at that works like it should.
And if we talk about putting cooler in w201 orw124 you dont need to cut anything to put in there 400x450 or 300x600 air cooler and 2,5" boost pipes
and that all you need.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
05-08-2010, 07:32 PM
#26
Thanks.
Justin.
05-09-2010, 02:22 AM
#27
The only thing I could imagine is to re-locate all the coolers towards the engine.
Next, I don't see a possibility to route boost hoses/tubes unless you go below all the stuff but this in conflict with the underneath engine cover and too low at all.
Tom
at least on my 124 603 turbo there is only about 3cm space between A/C condenser and bumper support. Even the fan is without protection grille on the lower part to fit behind the bumper support.
The only thing I could imagine is to re-locate all the coolers towards the engine.
Next, I don't see a possibility to route boost hoses/tubes unless you go below all the stuff but this in conflict with the underneath engine cover and too low at all.
Tom
05-09-2010, 02:49 AM
#28
(05-08-2010, 09:35 AM)gsxr With the stock injection pump, the IC is almost irrelevant... just add an EGT gauge and take your foot off the pedal when it gets to the wrong side of the dial. Now if you're going to put in 6mm elements (or larger), then yes, an IC would definitely be a good idea... along with a larger turbo! Have you turned up the pump already? Remember that there's no power gain just by adding the IC...
That's kinda what I was thinking. That's why I suggested that Tyler see what it runs after the mods alone but before the intercooler. Then, later, if he still does the intercooler thing, see what it runs after that is installed. I'm hoping that he will attain his goals without the I.C. and find it unnecessary. Tyler really doesn't want to cut the car up for an I.C. anyway. I've been telling him to just go ahead and do the other stuff and see what that gets him.
Regards, Eric
This post was last modified: 05-09-2010, 02:59 AM by 400Eric.
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
(05-08-2010, 09:35 AM)gsxr With the stock injection pump, the IC is almost irrelevant... just add an EGT gauge and take your foot off the pedal when it gets to the wrong side of the dial. Now if you're going to put in 6mm elements (or larger), then yes, an IC would definitely be a good idea... along with a larger turbo! Have you turned up the pump already? Remember that there's no power gain just by adding the IC...
That's kinda what I was thinking. That's why I suggested that Tyler see what it runs after the mods alone but before the intercooler. Then, later, if he still does the intercooler thing, see what it runs after that is installed. I'm hoping that he will attain his goals without the I.C. and find it unnecessary. Tyler really doesn't want to cut the car up for an I.C. anyway. I've been telling him to just go ahead and do the other stuff and see what that gets him.
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
05-10-2010, 06:18 PM
#29
Well, like I said, turning up the pump will make the power. The IC won't make any power, with or without the pump turned up. The IC will keep EGT's down a bit, that's all. I've been running with my pump maxed out for years with no IC, I just know to watch the EGT's if I'm climbing a long grade or something.
05-10-2010, 11:08 PM
#30
This post was last modified: 05-10-2010, 11:09 PM by 400Eric.
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
Dave, what's the quickest 1/4 mile E/T you've ever gotten out of your OM603?
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
05-11-2010, 08:43 AM
#31
(05-10-2010, 11:08 PM)400Eric Dave, what's the quickest 1/4 mile E/T you've ever gotten out of your OM603?
16.86 @ 82.41mph with the pump maxed out and relatively heavy 17" wheels. The fuel tank was at reserve. This was at 2700' elevation so the launch was slower than it would be at sea level. At sea level with lighter wheels it would likely run closer to 16.5 or so.
After I get the hybrid pump with 6mm elements installed, I'll test it at the dragstrip again, but with that setup I expect it to be mid/high 15's at upper 80's, again at 2700'.
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
(05-10-2010, 11:08 PM)400Eric Dave, what's the quickest 1/4 mile E/T you've ever gotten out of your OM603?
16.86 @ 82.41mph with the pump maxed out and relatively heavy 17" wheels. The fuel tank was at reserve. This was at 2700' elevation so the launch was slower than it would be at sea level. At sea level with lighter wheels it would likely run closer to 16.5 or so.
After I get the hybrid pump with 6mm elements installed, I'll test it at the dragstrip again, but with that setup I expect it to be mid/high 15's at upper 80's, again at 2700'.
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
05-12-2010, 04:41 AM
#32
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
Please keep us posted.
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
05-14-2010, 04:27 PM
#33
(05-10-2010, 06:18 PM)gsxr Well, like I said, turning up the pump will make the power. The IC won't make any power, with or without the pump turned up. The IC will keep EGT's down a bit, that's all. I've been running with my pump maxed out for years with no IC, I just know to watch the EGT's if I'm climbing a long grade or something.ic make sure at your intake air dont rice high. That is wise to do if yoy turn pump up.
Ant those water/air coolers not good if you dont put an own water circulation.
Or if there some ho has measured intake temperature whitout?
This post was last modified: 05-14-2010, 04:32 PM by jeemu.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(05-10-2010, 06:18 PM)gsxr Well, like I said, turning up the pump will make the power. The IC won't make any power, with or without the pump turned up. The IC will keep EGT's down a bit, that's all. I've been running with my pump maxed out for years with no IC, I just know to watch the EGT's if I'm climbing a long grade or something.ic make sure at your intake air dont rice high. That is wise to do if yoy turn pump up.
Ant those water/air coolers not good if you dont put an own water circulation.
Or if there some ho has measured intake temperature whitout?
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
05-15-2010, 03:03 AM
#34
Remove the aux fans.
Make some new brackets for the water radiator and a/c condenser.
Move the water radiator and a/c condenser as far back as the clutch fan will allow (or delete clutch fan and install a big and small eFans).
Place the Volvo intercooler in front of the A/C condenser.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
Maybe you could also use the large thin intercooler from a turbodiesel Volvo 740 intercooler.
Remove the aux fans.
Make some new brackets for the water radiator and a/c condenser.
Move the water radiator and a/c condenser as far back as the clutch fan will allow (or delete clutch fan and install a big and small eFans).
Place the Volvo intercooler in front of the A/C condenser.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
05-15-2010, 06:16 AM
#35
ForcedInduction
05-15-2010, 06:16 AM
#35
Volvo intercoolers are known to be restrictive junk. Poor cooling for their overly large size and weak tanks.
05-15-2010, 06:45 AM
#36
(05-15-2010, 03:03 AM)Deni Maybe you could also use the large thin intercooler from a turbodiesel Volvo 740 intercooler.
Remove the aux fans.
Make some new brackets for the water radiator and a/c condenser.
Move the water radiator and a/c condenser as far back as the clutch fan will allow (or delete clutch fan and install a big and small eFans).
Place the Volvo intercooler in front of the A/C condenser.
Not a bad idea but we never got the intercooled version of the D24T powered 740 Volvo on this side of the pond.
The O.P., Tyler, does own a turbo gas 740 though and I'm sure it was one of the first intercoolers he measured. Are those two intercoolers similar?
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
(05-15-2010, 03:03 AM)Deni Maybe you could also use the large thin intercooler from a turbodiesel Volvo 740 intercooler.
Remove the aux fans.
Make some new brackets for the water radiator and a/c condenser.
Move the water radiator and a/c condenser as far back as the clutch fan will allow (or delete clutch fan and install a big and small eFans).
Place the Volvo intercooler in front of the A/C condenser.
Not a bad idea but we never got the intercooled version of the D24T powered 740 Volvo on this side of the pond.
The O.P., Tyler, does own a turbo gas 740 though and I'm sure it was one of the first intercoolers he measured. Are those two intercoolers similar?
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
05-16-2010, 01:15 AM
#37
we never got the intercooled version of the D24T powered 740 Volvo on this side of the pond.
[/quote]
I was thinking of something like this. Just search for Volvo intercooler on ebay and there are some intercoolers there.
Quote:Volvo intercoolers are known to be restrictive junk. Poor cooling for their overly large size and weak tanks.
Would it be better as no intercooler at all? Or maybe have a shop build a better quality one but with the same size, large yet thin.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
we never got the intercooled version of the D24T powered 740 Volvo on this side of the pond.
[/quote]
I was thinking of something like this. Just search for Volvo intercooler on ebay and there are some intercoolers there.
Quote:Volvo intercoolers are known to be restrictive junk. Poor cooling for their overly large size and weak tanks.
Would it be better as no intercooler at all? Or maybe have a shop build a better quality one but with the same size, large yet thin.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
05-16-2010, 02:49 AM
#38
BTW, the seller is in error, that isn't from a 90. That's the improved intercooler that came out in the 92 M.Y.
Again, the O.P., Tyler, does own a turbo gas 740 and I'm sure it was one of the first intercoolers he measured to see if it would work in the Benz. If it was a viable option, he would have mentioned it.
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
Yes, that is a turbo gas intercooler, the only intercooled Volvo 740s we got here.
BTW, the seller is in error, that isn't from a 90. That's the improved intercooler that came out in the 92 M.Y.
Again, the O.P., Tyler, does own a turbo gas 740 and I'm sure it was one of the first intercoolers he measured to see if it would work in the Benz. If it was a viable option, he would have mentioned it.
Regards, Eric
"I've had the car upside down and still been steering trying to correct it" Richard Petty
85 Volvo 740 turbo diesel "Bolbo 1"
90 Volvo 740 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 2"
93 Volvo 940 wagon turbo gas "Bolbo 5"
89 300E "Benzer 1" 15.924 uncorrected at Pomona
93 400E "Benzer 3" 14.200 uncorrected at Fontana
95 E420 "Benzer 4"
87 300D "Benzer 7"
87 300D "Benzer 8"
85 Dodge flatbed tow truck "Festus"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" (1 of the AMC 360 powered ones)
94 Ford F700 Cummins 6BT Allison AT545 (all factory!) "Thomas"
05-16-2010, 08:25 AM
#39
(05-16-2010, 01:15 AM)Deni Would it be better as no intercooler at all?
For what it is, I'd say yes. Water injection would be a better option.
ForcedInduction
05-16-2010, 08:25 AM
#39
(05-16-2010, 01:15 AM)Deni Would it be better as no intercooler at all?
For what it is, I'd say yes. Water injection would be a better option.
05-18-2010, 08:52 AM
#40
Water injection doesn't do squat. I saw a power gain when injecting huge amounts of methanol but that was due to the engine burning the methanol as fuel. I removed the system from my car - waste of time, IMO. There was zero reduction in EGT's. Seems to work great for the diesel trucks with direct injection, but not so much for the OM60x.
Any intercooler on a 201 is going to require cutting *something*, so if it doesn't want to cut the car, forget it.
Water injection doesn't do squat. I saw a power gain when injecting huge amounts of methanol but that was due to the engine burning the methanol as fuel. I removed the system from my car - waste of time, IMO. There was zero reduction in EGT's. Seems to work great for the diesel trucks with direct injection, but not so much for the OM60x.
05-18-2010, 12:55 PM
#41
(05-18-2010, 08:52 AM)gsxr Water injection doesn't do squat. I saw a power gain when injecting huge amounts of methanol but that was due to the engine burning the methanol as fuel.
It works well on my 240 with just 35% methanol. I get a decent power boost with no increase in EGTs, thermally "free" power. It failed the first round 3 years ago because I installed it at the non-EGR manifold's test port, so #1 got most of the injection quantity. This time I drilled a port in the spare flat spot of the compressor outlet so its closer to the heat source, it has more time to evaporate so it will distribute evenly (less individual droplet mass changing direction). At the very least its good for keeping the cylinders carbon free.
It works well enough at 3gph on my 240 that I'll be doing a 6gph 2-stage system on my 300D. One nozzle on the manifold inlet and one in each cylinder runner. I've already got most of the components and the injector holes tapped, I just need a tank, accumulator, two solenoids and the nozzles.
This post was last modified: 05-18-2010, 01:06 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
05-18-2010, 12:55 PM
#41
(05-18-2010, 08:52 AM)gsxr Water injection doesn't do squat. I saw a power gain when injecting huge amounts of methanol but that was due to the engine burning the methanol as fuel.
It works well on my 240 with just 35% methanol. I get a decent power boost with no increase in EGTs, thermally "free" power. It failed the first round 3 years ago because I installed it at the non-EGR manifold's test port, so #1 got most of the injection quantity. This time I drilled a port in the spare flat spot of the compressor outlet so its closer to the heat source, it has more time to evaporate so it will distribute evenly (less individual droplet mass changing direction). At the very least its good for keeping the cylinders carbon free.
It works well enough at 3gph on my 240 that I'll be doing a 6gph 2-stage system on my 300D. One nozzle on the manifold inlet and one in each cylinder runner. I've already got most of the components and the injector holes tapped, I just need a tank, accumulator, two solenoids and the nozzles.
08-04-2011, 08:24 AM
#42
It would be nice to have a thin one about the size of the AC unit.
And I don't want to do Air to Water, just Air to Air
This post was last modified: 08-04-2011, 08:27 AM by Jtn190D.
08-04-2011, 03:55 PM
#43
Course it looks like the fins have been able to cram ordinary fat air-air intercoolers in that spot on w123s and w124s. Looks like the condenser, fan, and brace were removed to make way for those. Hmm, a w201 turbo probably has way less space up front.
You'll have a hard time finding thin air-air intercoolers.
Do air to water and use the condenser itself as the heat exchanger.
Course it looks like the fins have been able to cram ordinary fat air-air intercoolers in that spot on w123s and w124s. Looks like the condenser, fan, and brace were removed to make way for those. Hmm, a w201 turbo probably has way less space up front.
You'll have a hard time finding thin air-air intercoolers.
02-04-2012, 12:01 AM
#44
turbo_reboot
02-04-2012, 12:01 AM #44the new beetle and corrado ICs are compact thick and small. i got one off a g loaded corrado. pm me if interested.
Users browsing this thread:
10 Guest(s)
10 Guest(s)
Users browsing this thread:
10 Guest(s)
10 Guest(s)