1999 W210 HX-35 performance
1999 W210 HX-35 performance
So I just completed installing a HX-35 on my 1999 E300TD. Lemme just say it acts completely different now! It is a bit more laggy at low RPM, but when this thing spools up it comes on like a freight train!
From the feel of the car, it definetely feels faster overall, however I would like to get rid of some of the lag down low tho...I'm thinking of trying out a HE341 or something different on this thing...any thoughts on this?
I've seen those! Do they work well? Or are they all talk?
That's real nice. Do you put the valve on the inner or outer scroll? I bet somebody could make them cheaper.... (hint hint)
Ed
Somebody like this guy! I have an entire machine shop at my disposal!
Did you change your fueling at all? When/if you increase your fueling you will loose some of the lag.
You know some people say that 20psi from a small turbo is the same as 20psi from a larger turbo. Im not one of them.
(02-19-2011, 07:39 PM)gen3performance I've seen those! Do they work well? Or are they all talk?Yes they work. Its the same concept as a VNT turbo but less direct. You're basically cutting the turbine housing A/R in half. So with the 12cm housing you'll effectively have 6cm with the valve closed (which is what the "quick-spool" HY30w uses).
(02-19-2011, 09:36 PM)gen3performance Somebody like this guy! I have an entire machine shop at my disposal!Get at it! If you could cut $300 off their asking price you could have a real market. The big limitation to selling them would be if they have any patents on the concept.
(02-20-2011, 02:56 AM)dieselboy some people know that 20psi from a small turbo is the same as 20psi from a larger turbo. Im not one of them.Thats right. Airflow isn't altered one bit by the size of the turbo, its limited by the VE of the engine.
(02-19-2011, 07:39 PM)gen3performance I've seen those! Do they work well? Or are they all talk?Yes they work. Its the same concept as a VNT turbo but less direct. You're basically cutting the turbine housing A/R in half. So with the 12cm housing you'll effectively have 6cm with the valve closed (which is what the "quick-spool" HY30w uses).
(02-19-2011, 09:36 PM)gen3performance Somebody like this guy! I have an entire machine shop at my disposal!Get at it! If you could cut $300 off their asking price you could have a real market. The big limitation to selling them would be if they have any patents on the concept.
(02-20-2011, 02:56 AM)dieselboy some people know that 20psi from a small turbo is the same as 20psi from a larger turbo. Im not one of them.Thats right. Airflow isn't altered one bit by the size of the turbo, its limited by the VE of the engine.
I have changed the fueling on the car. I had the ecu flashed to 215hp by USA speedtuning. In addition to this I made a small box with a toggle switch, resistors, and a potentiometer that allows me to max out the rack on the electronic IP...here is the link
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/full...t-731.html
I dont know what the original wastegate was set at on the car, but this HX-35 is set somewhere around 15-18psi. If the stock turbo was in the same ballpark as 15psi(guessing), then the HX-35 pulls WAAAY harder at 15psi than the stock turbo!
I am going to make one of those plates this week...I already have it drawn on Solidworks and the tool paths programmed.
(02-20-2011, 03:55 PM)gen3performance If the stock turbo was in the same ballpark as 15psi(guessing)
Quote:How are you revving 5500?He isn't.
(02-20-2011, 03:55 PM)gen3performance If the stock turbo was in the same ballpark as 15psi(guessing)
Quote:How are you revving 5500?He isn't.
(02-20-2011, 03:55 PM)gen3performance I have changed the fueling on the car. I had the ecu flashed to 215hp by USA speedtuning. In addition to this I made a small box with a toggle switch, resistors, and a potentiometer that allows me to max out the rack on the electronic IP...here is the link
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/full...t-731.html
I dont know what the original wastegate was set at on the car, but this HX-35 is set somewhere around 15-18psi. If the stock turbo was in the same ballpark as 15psi(guessing), then the HX-35 pulls WAAAY harder at 15psi than the stock turbo!
I am going to make one of those plates this week...I already have it drawn on Solidworks and the tool paths programmed.
hi,
I have hx35 mounted on my 1998 w210 c250 with 20mm spacer between turbo and manifold to allow for quick spool valve. I will dyno the car with both scrolls open, then i will fit my other spacer which has one scroll blocked off. I will dyno car with each spacer and see the difference. There is videos on youtube of a supra which spools 1000rpm earlier with valve. If your going to make a valve like me you can use engine valve guides for the bushes for the butterfly shaft as they will take the heat and won't seize if enough clearance is left. Remember not to let the butterfly open to quickly or you will get a short delay in boost.
I was wondering if i used electronic pump with 7.5mm elements and your resistor set up, would this increase my rpms? Do these resistors increase rpm?
wayne
(02-20-2011, 03:55 PM)gen3performance I have changed the fueling on the car. I had the ecu flashed to 215hp by USA speedtuning. In addition to this I made a small box with a toggle switch, resistors, and a potentiometer that allows me to max out the rack on the electronic IP...here is the link
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/full...t-731.html
I dont know what the original wastegate was set at on the car, but this HX-35 is set somewhere around 15-18psi. If the stock turbo was in the same ballpark as 15psi(guessing), then the HX-35 pulls WAAAY harder at 15psi than the stock turbo!
I am going to make one of those plates this week...I already have it drawn on Solidworks and the tool paths programmed.
I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.
The car has been late to shift on a few occasions and the car has not over revved. It just holds around 5000 RPM until the transmission catches up.
I wonder if fooling with the tachometer signal would allow for more RPM?
Oh! Mechanical pump! I was thinking you had an OM606 with electronic pump.
Is that a stock 617 pump with governor spring mods or will the stock pump go that high? Or is it even a stock pump for that matter?
(02-20-2011, 08:09 PM)gen3performance I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.hi,
The car has been late to shift on a few occasions and the car has not over revved. It just holds around 5000 RPM until the transmission catches up.
I wonder if fooling with the tachometer signal would allow for more RPM?
(02-20-2011, 08:09 PM)gen3performance I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.hi,
The car has been late to shift on a few occasions and the car has not over revved. It just holds around 5000 RPM until the transmission catches up.
I wonder if fooling with the tachometer signal would allow for more RPM?
I'm not sure off hand, but if there is someone doing it I would also like to know!
(02-21-2011, 02:16 PM)gen3performance I'm not sure off hand, but if there is someone doing it I would also like to know!hi,
(02-21-2011, 02:16 PM)gen3performance I'm not sure off hand, but if there is someone doing it I would also like to know!hi,
(02-20-2011, 08:09 PM)gen3performance I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.It won't increase fueling as it isn't a gasser engine. Your increase in performance is due to better breathing. Original turbo was chosen to be responsive, the sacrifice in top end performance was meaningless.
Just looking at boost gauge won't tell boost/backpressure ratio, which is a much better meter of airflow.
(02-20-2011, 08:09 PM)gen3performance I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.It won't increase fueling as it isn't a gasser engine. Your increase in performance is due to better breathing. Original turbo was chosen to be responsive, the sacrifice in top end performance was meaningless.
(02-21-2011, 02:42 PM)muuris Just looking at boost gauge won't tell boost/backpressure ratio, which is a much better meter of airflow.hi,
(02-20-2011, 08:09 PM)gen3performance I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.It won't increase fueling as it isn't a gasser engine. Your increase in performance is due to better breathing. Original turbo was chosen to be responsive, the sacrifice in top end performance was meaningless.
Why try to fool ECU's rpm sensor, why not just remap it? Don't see the point of changing turbo and not doing it, as a clear performance increase is just few hundred bucks away..
(02-21-2011, 02:42 PM)muuris Just looking at boost gauge won't tell boost/backpressure ratio, which is a much better meter of airflow.hi,
(02-20-2011, 08:09 PM)gen3performance I'm not getting any more RPM out of the engine, it still seems to govern out around 5000 RPM. It just seems to increase fuel up to that point.It won't increase fueling as it isn't a gasser engine. Your increase in performance is due to better breathing. Original turbo was chosen to be responsive, the sacrifice in top end performance was meaningless.
Why try to fool ECU's rpm sensor, why not just remap it? Don't see the point of changing turbo and not doing it, as a clear performance increase is just few hundred bucks away..
.
Muuris is right, this is pressure-controlled engine.
In orig program fuelling rate is 0mm^3 -> 5400rpm.
But, the program is only software, nothing denies to change it how ewer needed.
The program is not the problem, iron is, always.
If I understand right, the first tuning was made to standart engine.
Because of very small original turbo, you cannot rise the pulling revs over 5000rpm.
As I looked very quickly the program, it seems, that 75mm^3 is possible, and that gives +300hp/5500rpm.
Gen3, I will buy one of those quick spools if you make a batch!
Let me just clarify what I have done to my car so far.
I first installed a 3 inch diameter exhaust system.
Next, I had the ecu remapped from the stock 177hp/330nm to 218hp/412nm. I did not max out the fueling with the remap because I wanted to stay in what was considered a 'safe' zone of egt's, egp's, etc. The car barely, barely smoked at WOT after the remap.
I then made and installed a variable resistor box that will 'fool' the rack travel on the electronic IP. This box allows me to go to what I assume is maximum fuel output with the pump. I do not go WOT for more than a few seconds with it on. Also, the car would smoke quite heavily at WOT with the box turned up.
Lastly, my most recent upgrade was installing an HX-35 turbo. The mid to redline pull of the car has been greatly improved with this turbo, but the low rpm performance has suffered as well. I do understand that the turbo change has not increased the fueling quantity and the increase in performance is most likely from more of the fuel being burnt. The best indication I have seen to confirm this is that the amount of smoke coming from the tailpipe at WOT+resistor box on is significantly less than it was with the stock turbo.
I hope this gives a better understanding of the cars manners since the turbo swap.
Sounds like a good set of mods! Nice job.
Thank you E300TSC. I must say your list of mods is also very impressive!
gen3performance, seems I missed your earlier post the last time. Your turbo change makes sense, good thing you're not killing the engine with stock turbo.
tuikku, you should know stock 6mm elements aren't good for 300hp. The best result I know is about 260hp.
(02-23-2011, 03:27 PM)muuris gen3performance, seems I missed your earlier post the last time. Your turbo change makes sense, good thing you're not killing the engine with stock turbo.
tuikku, you should know stock 6mm elements aren't good for 300hp. The best result I know is about 260hp.
(02-23-2011, 03:27 PM)muuris gen3performance, seems I missed your earlier post the last time. Your turbo change makes sense, good thing you're not killing the engine with stock turbo.
tuikku, you should know stock 6mm elements aren't good for 300hp. The best result I know is about 260hp.
(02-23-2011, 05:18 PM)tuikku In orig pump voltage map, the largest fueling rate is 65mm^3.
But there is still also room to increase voltage ~20% without limp-mode, that means still under 5V voltage.
75mm^3/5500rpm means ~300hp, calculate it.
(02-23-2011, 05:18 PM)tuikku In orig pump voltage map, the largest fueling rate is 65mm^3.
But there is still also room to increase voltage ~20% without limp-mode, that means still under 5V voltage.
75mm^3/5500rpm means ~300hp, calculate it.
(02-25-2011, 05:06 PM)muuris(02-23-2011, 05:18 PM)tuikku In orig pump voltage map, the largest fueling rate is 65mm^3.
But there is still also room to increase voltage ~20% without limp-mode, that means still under 5V voltage.
75mm^3/5500rpm means ~300hp, calculate it.
Calculations and real life have a difference A couple of mech pumps have been made by Mynä with 6mm (OM606 stock) elements and they won't give 300hp. Even if you can get enough fuel to theoretically produce 300hp, it won't be injected quick enough to be burnt well. The last mm^3s are just heat and smoke.
(02-25-2011, 05:06 PM)muuris(02-23-2011, 05:18 PM)tuikku In orig pump voltage map, the largest fueling rate is 65mm^3.
But there is still also room to increase voltage ~20% without limp-mode, that means still under 5V voltage.
75mm^3/5500rpm means ~300hp, calculate it.
Calculations and real life have a difference A couple of mech pumps have been made by Mynä with 6mm (OM606 stock) elements and they won't give 300hp. Even if you can get enough fuel to theoretically produce 300hp, it won't be injected quick enough to be burnt well. The last mm^3s are just heat and smoke.
Here's some pics of the install.
http://s776.photobucket.com/albums/yy42/...35%20Swap/
Also the car has a check engine light on now. I believe the light is MAF related due to the symptoms. The car will lose power at around 4000RPM on a WOT pull. Moreover, the car is doing some weird shifting at times. I dont have a connector for my Snap on MT2500 scanner to check the codes, but I will be getting one soon.
Is there anything I should be looking at with the turbo wastegate vaccuum accuator that could be setting off a code? All I did was block the vaccuum port on the accuator after the turbo swap.
I know the ECU want's to see 0 boost at level cruise. When you enter a highway, accelerate to speed then hold a fairly constant speed for a little while, the wastegate opens. As long as the throttle position is varying, it won't go into this "cruise" mode.
.
There is simply too large difference to actual, and specific boost pressure.
You have there tuned program, where boost pressure ask is rised.
With a lot of bigger turbo, actual pressure rising don´t reach program ask enough quicly.
Restart repairs the situation.
Happens also with vnt-chargers, easy to repair.
Nothing to do with MAF.
Can you elaborate on this a little? So I should constantly be varying the pedal at cruise speed to prevent the computer from seeing boost?
.
MB is boost controlled.
All the time, when you press the pedal to ask power, or you just drive, you also ask boost pressure.
Program (orig) asks pressure all the time.
If the difference between the realised pressure and the one, program "wants" comes too large -> limp mode.
Big turbo -> slow boost rise, too slow -> too big difference -> limp mode.
Here you have the orig. map, where you can see, what the programs demand is.
Axels are fuelling rate, mm^3 and rpm.
In map there is specific boost pressure, that program wants.
It is ery easy to change anything that need.
(02-27-2011, 03:38 PM)gen3performance Also the car has a check engine light on now. I believe the light is MAF related due to the symptoms. The car will lose power at around 4000RPM on a WOT pull. Moreover, the car is doing some weird shifting at times. I dont have a connector for my Snap on MT2500 scanner to check the codes, but I will be getting one soon.hi,
Is there anything I should be looking at with the turbo wastegate vaccuum accuator that could be setting off a code? All I did was block the vaccuum port on the accuator after the turbo swap.
(02-27-2011, 03:38 PM)gen3performance Also the car has a check engine light on now. I believe the light is MAF related due to the symptoms. The car will lose power at around 4000RPM on a WOT pull. Moreover, the car is doing some weird shifting at times. I dont have a connector for my Snap on MT2500 scanner to check the codes, but I will be getting one soon.hi,
Is there anything I should be looking at with the turbo wastegate vaccuum accuator that could be setting off a code? All I did was block the vaccuum port on the accuator after the turbo swap.
I never had the engine light come on until after the turbo swap
(02-27-2011, 05:56 PM)gen3performance I never had the engine light come on until after the turbo swaphi,
What would I need for hardware and software to program the ecu on my own?
(02-27-2011, 05:56 PM)gen3performance I never had the engine light come on until after the turbo swaphi,
What would I need for hardware and software to program the ecu on my own?
(02-27-2011, 06:40 PM)300D50 Good luck... it's all secret black-ops to program them...
(02-27-2011, 06:40 PM)300D50 Good luck... it's all secret black-ops to program them...
I can burn prom's all day long, the map software is what you become a eunich for...
It wasn't too terrible. It took me about a week to do working on it a few hours a day. Its just time consuming making everything line up and fit.