Poll: Number of MW owners vrs M owners who want a modded IP
Poll: Number of MW owners vrs M owners who want a modded IP
Poll: MW-IP modd or M-IP modd
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
MW
M
03-31-2012, 08:17 PM
#52
Think (std) this is more of a hard core group more able to do a lot themselves, and willing to push the envelope. If a good pump could be built not necessarily cheap, but at least reasonable there should be at least some market for it.
I think most people on the peachparts forum would be very happy with just more aggressive tune, and I think there is a market for doing that. The 240 crowd would love it. Take their car somewhere have it tuned up a bit.
Think (std) this is more of a hard core group more able to do a lot themselves, and willing to push the envelope. If a good pump could be built not necessarily cheap, but at least reasonable there should be at least some market for it.
04-02-2012, 12:48 AM
#53
(03-31-2012, 08:17 PM)ronnie I think most people on the peachparts forum would be very happy with just more aggressive tune, and I think there is a market for doing that. The 240 crowd would love it. Take their car somewhere have it tuned up a bit.
Think (std) this is more of a hard core group more able to do a lot themselves, and willing to push the envelope. If a good pump could be built not necessarily cheap, but at least reasonable there should be at least some market for it.
Most everyone is on both sites. I am curious to see what a 10mm MW will do for a 616.
There is more to building a super pump than just putting in larger elements, to get the most out of it the DVs need to be upgraded and ideally the injectors up graded too.
If I just installed the China 10mm elements as they come instead of modifying them, reused the plunger return springs and DVs, and don't up grade the Governor Springs, then a pump could be done for under a grand, but to be honest, I am not interested in cutting corners.
I have our pumps to do, and I have 2 extra 616 IPs that might get the treatment and go up on e-bay, it will depend on my cash flow at the time.
I am working with a Friend to select a better DV to use. Once I have a handle on that, I will be confident to release a pump outside my control.
(03-31-2012, 08:17 PM)ronnie I think most people on the peachparts forum would be very happy with just more aggressive tune, and I think there is a market for doing that. The 240 crowd would love it. Take their car somewhere have it tuned up a bit.
Think (std) this is more of a hard core group more able to do a lot themselves, and willing to push the envelope. If a good pump could be built not necessarily cheap, but at least reasonable there should be at least some market for it.
Most everyone is on both sites. I am curious to see what a 10mm MW will do for a 616.
There is more to building a super pump than just putting in larger elements, to get the most out of it the DVs need to be upgraded and ideally the injectors up graded too.
If I just installed the China 10mm elements as they come instead of modifying them, reused the plunger return springs and DVs, and don't up grade the Governor Springs, then a pump could be done for under a grand, but to be honest, I am not interested in cutting corners.
I have our pumps to do, and I have 2 extra 616 IPs that might get the treatment and go up on e-bay, it will depend on my cash flow at the time.
I am working with a Friend to select a better DV to use. Once I have a handle on that, I will be confident to release a pump outside my control.
04-04-2012, 07:53 PM
#55
(04-02-2012, 05:15 PM)ronnie do you want an extra 617 pump? I have a spare of unknown condition, and no use for it.
I have new nozzles on my injectors, although I do need to pop test them, anything else I should do?
Sure, I could build it up for my 617a if I decide to tear into that after the 190 is done, or at least is truly road worthy.
I pulled the 240d diff out today, what a PIA. I have to make a crate for it yet in between tasks. It needs to be taken apart, cleaned and new seals installed, and it should provide you with years of service.
I am leaning towards modding the stock delivery valves, making them more of a consistent displacement DV. I would alter the barrel and make a new plunger for it. I am trying to figure out how much the stock DV displaces at idle fueling quantities.
(04-02-2012, 05:15 PM)ronnie do you want an extra 617 pump? I have a spare of unknown condition, and no use for it.
I have new nozzles on my injectors, although I do need to pop test them, anything else I should do?
Sure, I could build it up for my 617a if I decide to tear into that after the 190 is done, or at least is truly road worthy.
I pulled the 240d diff out today, what a PIA. I have to make a crate for it yet in between tasks. It needs to be taken apart, cleaned and new seals installed, and it should provide you with years of service.
I am leaning towards modding the stock delivery valves, making them more of a consistent displacement DV. I would alter the barrel and make a new plunger for it. I am trying to figure out how much the stock DV displaces at idle fueling quantities.
08-23-2012, 03:54 PM
#57
First I would like to say that I am glad to see that many members have had good sucess tuning their MW governors using the information that I generated. One member said that they saw a 28hp gain and still had fuel availabel. That is cool.
I am putting together a current parts cost to build a pump, I am not excited about building pumps for the public to be honest. There are a couple of members who I am confident that they have the ability to fine tune the pump to fit their needs, so I agreed to build them a pump while I am doing mine.
I did receive a new sample 10mm thin element that I like and will be using, and I will be putting in an order for more soon. I will be modding the ones that I will be installing (grinding the helix to reduce the max delivery amount), but if any one wanted to use them as they come they could be had for a slight mark up.
If anyone has any interest or questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
I have recieved requests for a price to build 10mm MW pumps from several members and I thought I would address those here.
First I would like to say that I am glad to see that many members have had good sucess tuning their MW governors using the information that I generated. One member said that they saw a 28hp gain and still had fuel availabel. That is cool.
I am putting together a current parts cost to build a pump, I am not excited about building pumps for the public to be honest. There are a couple of members who I am confident that they have the ability to fine tune the pump to fit their needs, so I agreed to build them a pump while I am doing mine.
I did receive a new sample 10mm thin element that I like and will be using, and I will be putting in an order for more soon. I will be modding the ones that I will be installing (grinding the helix to reduce the max delivery amount), but if any one wanted to use them as they come they could be had for a slight mark up.
If anyone has any interest or questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
08-23-2012, 05:26 PM
#59
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
08-23-2012, 05:26 PM #59I like the idea of getting an MW-pump modded for two reasons, the first being I don't need to sell a kidney to buy an M-pump, and the second being that I don't need to send it to another continent.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
08-24-2012, 12:11 AM
#60
(08-23-2012, 04:39 PM)aaa Can a set of these elements be had alone for less than $300?
LOL..... I paid $9.68 for the sample element and $19.40 in shipping.(China)
The Bosch # for the element I will be using is 1 418 415 051
They are real personable, I pay using paypal, and I got the thing via DHL in three days. I am going to see if they will use a slower shipping as it gets crazy expensive with more elements, like almost 100% of the parts cost.
One other member has had 10mm elements installed as they are and the engine was controllable, I do not like how the pump shop set the governor up for it though. They will deliver a lot of fuel real quick, so the governor tuning will be a challenge, as it will want to kill the top end real quick, I think he will find that is what his is going to do the way the pump shop set it up. That is the reason I am grinding mine, the result will reduce the delivery rate per degree of plunger rotation (rack travel to fuel ratio).
To put the output ratio into perspective, they come with a helix angle of about 26 degrees (+-) and I am reducing it to 6 degrees. That will reduce the displaced max possible volume to about .145cc which will translate in real world action to around .09cc at the upper end of the normal governor max travel, Additional fueling could be had by increasing the rack travel.
I am going to build a better grinding fixture to do the next batch. It takes a good amount of time to grind one, as I am removing a good amount of material, and I have to go slow, and use lots of coolant, and it is nasty stuff lol.
I am wondering if an MW can be modded to work on a 60X engine as they supply oil to the pump internally some how, not like the 61X engine that has a oil supply line that goes to the pump. A 10mm MW and a 606 could be a lot of fun.
Lets do this, let me get the first pumps done and we will see how well they work. I did not get a chance to put many miles on the other one I did, nor did I get a chance to tear it down and inspect it. That will give me a feel for the time it will take to do one from start to finish.
If anyone wants to order some for them selves, PM me and I will give you the e-mail address to contact the supplier.
(08-23-2012, 04:39 PM)aaa Can a set of these elements be had alone for less than $300?
LOL..... I paid $9.68 for the sample element and $19.40 in shipping.(China)
The Bosch # for the element I will be using is 1 418 415 051
They are real personable, I pay using paypal, and I got the thing via DHL in three days. I am going to see if they will use a slower shipping as it gets crazy expensive with more elements, like almost 100% of the parts cost.
One other member has had 10mm elements installed as they are and the engine was controllable, I do not like how the pump shop set the governor up for it though. They will deliver a lot of fuel real quick, so the governor tuning will be a challenge, as it will want to kill the top end real quick, I think he will find that is what his is going to do the way the pump shop set it up. That is the reason I am grinding mine, the result will reduce the delivery rate per degree of plunger rotation (rack travel to fuel ratio).
To put the output ratio into perspective, they come with a helix angle of about 26 degrees (+-) and I am reducing it to 6 degrees. That will reduce the displaced max possible volume to about .145cc which will translate in real world action to around .09cc at the upper end of the normal governor max travel, Additional fueling could be had by increasing the rack travel.
I am going to build a better grinding fixture to do the next batch. It takes a good amount of time to grind one, as I am removing a good amount of material, and I have to go slow, and use lots of coolant, and it is nasty stuff lol.
I am wondering if an MW can be modded to work on a 60X engine as they supply oil to the pump internally some how, not like the 61X engine that has a oil supply line that goes to the pump. A 10mm MW and a 606 could be a lot of fun.
Lets do this, let me get the first pumps done and we will see how well they work. I did not get a chance to put many miles on the other one I did, nor did I get a chance to tear it down and inspect it. That will give me a feel for the time it will take to do one from start to finish.
If anyone wants to order some for them selves, PM me and I will give you the e-mail address to contact the supplier.
08-24-2012, 04:06 AM
#61
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
08-24-2012, 04:06 AM #61Hmmm, so these can be set up to deliver a lot less fuel, say equivalent to a 7mm or something, correct? I have seen videos of the 7.5mm and similar elements, and I think that amount of fuel is what I need, or even a little less maybe
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
08-24-2012, 09:12 PM
#62
(08-24-2012, 04:06 AM)sassparilla_kid Hmmm, so these can be set up to deliver a lot less fuel, say equivalent to a 7mm or something, correct? I have seen videos of the 7.5mm and similar elements, and I think that amount of fuel is what I need, or even a little less maybe
They can be made to put out as much or as little as desired, all depends on the angle the helix is ground to. DVs also play a role in delivery amounts.
(08-24-2012, 04:06 AM)sassparilla_kid Hmmm, so these can be set up to deliver a lot less fuel, say equivalent to a 7mm or something, correct? I have seen videos of the 7.5mm and similar elements, and I think that amount of fuel is what I need, or even a little less maybe
They can be made to put out as much or as little as desired, all depends on the angle the helix is ground to. DVs also play a role in delivery amounts.
08-25-2012, 01:33 PM
#63
(08-24-2012, 09:12 PM)OM616 They can be made to put out as much or as little as desired, all depends on the angle the helix is ground to. DVs also play a role in delivery amounts.
That makes sense. So I guess my final question is, how much fuel would one of your modified elements put out compared to the stock 5.5? I don't remember reading what the stock volume is although I am sure I have passed over it numerous times
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
08-25-2012, 01:33 PM #63(08-24-2012, 09:12 PM)OM616 They can be made to put out as much or as little as desired, all depends on the angle the helix is ground to. DVs also play a role in delivery amounts.
That makes sense. So I guess my final question is, how much fuel would one of your modified elements put out compared to the stock 5.5? I don't remember reading what the stock volume is although I am sure I have passed over it numerous times
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
08-26-2012, 05:50 PM
#64
(08-25-2012, 01:33 PM)sassparilla_kid(08-24-2012, 09:12 PM)OM616 They can be made to put out as much or as little as desired, all depends on the angle the helix is ground to. DVs also play a role in delivery amounts.
That makes sense. So I guess my final question is, how much fuel would one of your modified elements put out compared to the stock 5.5? I don't remember reading what the stock volume is although I am sure I have passed over it numerous times
My target output for the elements that I am going to be putting in my car is in the area of 90cc/K Revs at approximately 75% of rack travel. The delivery time will be very quick and that is where I am looking to pick up efficiency.
As I recall the 5.5s will put out in the neighbor hood of 50-60 cc/K Revs, but the injection duration is too long and is not useable in that range.
As they are, they probably put out 200+ cc/K Revs in less time than the 5.5 will flow 60cc lol.
(08-25-2012, 01:33 PM)sassparilla_kid(08-24-2012, 09:12 PM)OM616 They can be made to put out as much or as little as desired, all depends on the angle the helix is ground to. DVs also play a role in delivery amounts.
That makes sense. So I guess my final question is, how much fuel would one of your modified elements put out compared to the stock 5.5? I don't remember reading what the stock volume is although I am sure I have passed over it numerous times
My target output for the elements that I am going to be putting in my car is in the area of 90cc/K Revs at approximately 75% of rack travel. The delivery time will be very quick and that is where I am looking to pick up efficiency.
As I recall the 5.5s will put out in the neighbor hood of 50-60 cc/K Revs, but the injection duration is too long and is not useable in that range.
As they are, they probably put out 200+ cc/K Revs in less time than the 5.5 will flow 60cc lol.
08-26-2012, 08:01 PM
#65
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
08-26-2012, 08:01 PM #65Awesome, pm sent
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
08-27-2012, 02:27 AM
#66
I am having a fantastic discussion under ground that has changed my understanding of a couple things that are critical to a successful outcome.
One part that is key is a higher flowing nozzle, which one has been identified as flowing 15% more than a 265. I will be ordering a set to try, and if they work well they will be part of the puzzle.
The other aspect is the Delivery Valve, it is on this front that I have learned a lot, and if my new understanding is correct, I will be more confident in the set up. I am ordering a couple different DVs to look at as another puzzle piece.
I learned something from Tomnik's element sales, and that is it is not a good idea to just sell elements to anyone, as, if there is any issues, the pump shops will point to the elements and a pissing match is started, not interested in that. Not every pump shop is up to the task, sure they may be willing to give it a try, but that is just bad news waiting to be delivered.
Everyone is going to have to sit tight until I am happy with my set up, I am just not going to sell parts without knowing they will work. Like I said, if you want to order some elements let me know and I will give you the contact information to the manufacturer, no sense get me involved, if you want modded elements it will be a while as I am still figuring things out.
Another option would be to contact one of the two pump shops that post on the forum and ask if they would mod some, I know one of them has altered the helix on some of the elements that he as had made,(I do not want to butcher his screen name).
It is closer today to being an option than it was yesterday. Start saving your pennies, you will need a few of them
.
Everyone should keep in mind that to be successful, it will take more than just swapping in larger elements, the entire system needs to be matched, that is why you see a lot of videos of superpumped cars smoking like hell with not that much fuel being delivered.
I am having a fantastic discussion under ground that has changed my understanding of a couple things that are critical to a successful outcome.
One part that is key is a higher flowing nozzle, which one has been identified as flowing 15% more than a 265. I will be ordering a set to try, and if they work well they will be part of the puzzle.
The other aspect is the Delivery Valve, it is on this front that I have learned a lot, and if my new understanding is correct, I will be more confident in the set up. I am ordering a couple different DVs to look at as another puzzle piece.
I learned something from Tomnik's element sales, and that is it is not a good idea to just sell elements to anyone, as, if there is any issues, the pump shops will point to the elements and a pissing match is started, not interested in that. Not every pump shop is up to the task, sure they may be willing to give it a try, but that is just bad news waiting to be delivered.
Everyone is going to have to sit tight until I am happy with my set up, I am just not going to sell parts without knowing they will work. Like I said, if you want to order some elements let me know and I will give you the contact information to the manufacturer, no sense get me involved, if you want modded elements it will be a while as I am still figuring things out.
Another option would be to contact one of the two pump shops that post on the forum and ask if they would mod some, I know one of them has altered the helix on some of the elements that he as had made,(I do not want to butcher his screen name).
It is closer today to being an option than it was yesterday. Start saving your pennies, you will need a few of them.
09-04-2012, 11:52 AM
#67
Last night I started looking at the helix of the new 10mm element, and with the new insight I have regarding DVs and Nozzles, it was apparent the helix would not need to be modified.
I then revisited some of the manuals I have for 10mm MWs and looked at the output specks and was very pleased and surprised. They all called out delivery rates in the 80s-90s with rack positions of 10-11mm, (what I want). There is still a good deal of rack travel left for additional fuel if desired. Now a lot depends on the nozzle and DV, but after analyzing the helix I am going to put them in as they are. Fueling can be tweaked via DVs if necessary.
Not having to grind the plungers saves a lot of time and expense, so there is a cost reduction right there. I also got a great price for the 315 nozzle from the same manufacturer, so I will order some to inspect, and if they look good, I will put them in my cars, I am pleased with the quality of the element so I have high hopes for the nozzles.
If my pump turns out well, I can see being able to build 10mm 617a MW pumps for $750.00, that would include new 10mm elements, new DVs, a stronger lift pump spring, and new 315 nozzles (nozzles only) if they prove to be good.
Major progress on the elements!!
Last night I started looking at the helix of the new 10mm element, and with the new insight I have regarding DVs and Nozzles, it was apparent the helix would not need to be modified.
I then revisited some of the manuals I have for 10mm MWs and looked at the output specks and was very pleased and surprised. They all called out delivery rates in the 80s-90s with rack positions of 10-11mm, (what I want). There is still a good deal of rack travel left for additional fuel if desired. Now a lot depends on the nozzle and DV, but after analyzing the helix I am going to put them in as they are. Fueling can be tweaked via DVs if necessary.
Not having to grind the plungers saves a lot of time and expense, so there is a cost reduction right there. I also got a great price for the 315 nozzle from the same manufacturer, so I will order some to inspect, and if they look good, I will put them in my cars, I am pleased with the quality of the element so I have high hopes for the nozzles.
If my pump turns out well, I can see being able to build 10mm 617a MW pumps for $750.00, that would include new 10mm elements, new DVs, a stronger lift pump spring, and new 315 nozzles (nozzles only) if they prove to be good.
09-04-2012, 12:14 PM
#68
(09-04-2012, 11:52 AM)OM616 If my pump turns out well, I can see being able to build 10mm 617a MW pumps for $750.00, that would include new 10mm elements, new DVs, a stronger lift pump spring, and new 315 nozzles (nozzles only) if they prove to be good.
That's incredible! When my vehicle is finally build *cough* years *cough* I'd definitely be interested
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-04-2012, 12:14 PM #68(09-04-2012, 11:52 AM)OM616 If my pump turns out well, I can see being able to build 10mm 617a MW pumps for $750.00, that would include new 10mm elements, new DVs, a stronger lift pump spring, and new 315 nozzles (nozzles only) if they prove to be good.
That's incredible! When my vehicle is finally build *cough* years *cough* I'd definitely be interested
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-04-2012, 05:12 PM
#69
Keep up the great work !!!
I may have to get another Merc engine for a DD instead of the Cummins....
Ed
yankneck696
09-04-2012, 05:12 PM #69Infriggingcredible !!!
Keep up the great work !!!
I may have to get another Merc engine for a DD instead of the Cummins....
Ed
09-05-2012, 02:16 AM
#70
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-05-2012, 02:16 AM #70I'm already saving up!!!
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
09-10-2012, 01:20 AM
#72
(09-10-2012, 12:44 AM)OM616 A 10mm MW and a set of 315s would make for a nice drifter........ just sayen...
Hmmm, sounds like somebody needs to hurry up and master said pumps then!!!
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-10-2012, 01:20 AM #72(09-10-2012, 12:44 AM)OM616 A 10mm MW and a set of 315s would make for a nice drifter........ just sayen...
Hmmm, sounds like somebody needs to hurry up and master said pumps then!!!
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
raysorenson
09-11-2012, 01:16 PM #74Add me to the list of those watching this thread with great interest.
09-12-2012, 12:20 AM
#75
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
09-12-2012, 12:20 AM #75So Excited!! Saving for sure!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
09-17-2012, 03:30 PM
#76
I need to get some master injectors before I can build my pump and I am just a couple pennies short at the moment, lol.
I am waiting to hear on a Bosch alternative DV price, but if need be I will build mine with OEM DVs just to get it done so I can evaluate the combination of new nozzles and elements with the stock DVs.
The package with the elements and Nozzles came today.
I need to get some master injectors before I can build my pump and I am just a couple pennies short at the moment, lol.
I am waiting to hear on a Bosch alternative DV price, but if need be I will build mine with OEM DVs just to get it done so I can evaluate the combination of new nozzles and elements with the stock DVs.
09-17-2012, 04:18 PM
#78
(09-17-2012, 03:36 PM)aaa Why not try them individually? Nozzles, then elements. Or other way around.
If I can get enough 135bar holders I could compare the 256 nozzles to the 315 nozzles with the 10mm elements, but at first I want to set it up with the 315s as the pump that they were designed for had a big element, the issue is rate of injection, if the nozzle can't flow enough fast enough, most of the displaced fuel goes to lift the pintle.
The hole reason for the quest of larger nozzles was to get a nozzle with a higher flow rate to better match the shorter injection time, not necessarily increased delivery.
I am sure the 315 would be an improvement on the 5.5mm elements.
I have run a different set of modified 10mm elements with stock injectors and from what I have recently learned, I am sure the issues it had was related to the injector.
This time I have spent a lot of time researching parts to put together a new system that is as balanced on paper as possible so the odds of being able to start it and not have to keep fooling with it are as high as possible. Several members have helped me behind the seens so there are lots of details that are not publicly known which I can see could cause people to have questions.
Consider it a given that a set of 315s will need to be installed along with a 10mm MW.
(09-17-2012, 03:36 PM)aaa Why not try them individually? Nozzles, then elements. Or other way around.
If I can get enough 135bar holders I could compare the 256 nozzles to the 315 nozzles with the 10mm elements, but at first I want to set it up with the 315s as the pump that they were designed for had a big element, the issue is rate of injection, if the nozzle can't flow enough fast enough, most of the displaced fuel goes to lift the pintle.
The hole reason for the quest of larger nozzles was to get a nozzle with a higher flow rate to better match the shorter injection time, not necessarily increased delivery.
I am sure the 315 would be an improvement on the 5.5mm elements.
I have run a different set of modified 10mm elements with stock injectors and from what I have recently learned, I am sure the issues it had was related to the injector.
This time I have spent a lot of time researching parts to put together a new system that is as balanced on paper as possible so the odds of being able to start it and not have to keep fooling with it are as high as possible. Several members have helped me behind the seens so there are lots of details that are not publicly known which I can see could cause people to have questions.
Consider it a given that a set of 315s will need to be installed along with a 10mm MW.
09-17-2012, 08:38 PM
#79
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-17-2012, 08:38 PM #79I'm not making any more major purchases until these superpumps are ready
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
09-18-2012, 01:30 AM
#80
This post was last modified: 09-18-2012, 09:17 AM by JustPassinThru.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
09-18-2012, 01:30 AM #80PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a set of five 135 bar injectors, I pulled them from an '83 300D this morning. But I want them back soon. With either 265 or 315 nozzles in 'em and balanced. Consider us WVO guys in your design: please test for pop pressure and spray pattern using a mixture of 870 milliliters of Mazola corn oil or any brand of pure canola oil, 80 milliliters of kerosene or odorless mineral spirits, 50 milliliters of gasoline, and 15 milliliters of Diesel Kleen (you can pour it in your tank when you're done; in 5 gallons or more of #2 diesel you won't notice the difference, except your engine may run slightly better). Also, I trust you will build my pump using Viton gaskets. I've got a spare MW pump lying around doing nothing, but it's off a non-turbo 1979 300D. No ALDA.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
09-18-2012, 04:14 PM
#81
and how do they work with small engine (small compared to trucks)? Almost same amount of fuel is possible to get with 7mm elements but unfortunately there will be twice more rack travel and way too long injection time.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
I am just wondering why you need to use that big elements? and how do they work with small engine (small compared to trucks)? Almost same amount of fuel is possible to get with 7mm elements but unfortunately there will be twice more rack travel and way too long injection time.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
09-18-2012, 05:41 PM
#82
(09-18-2012, 04:14 PM)Siekkinen I am just wondering why you need to use that big elements?
I think his intention is to use the large (availible) elements to produce very short duration injection times. It's very difficult to get larger MW elements. Read this whole thread & the others OM616 has posted in to get a full uderstanding.
Ed
yankneck696
09-18-2012, 05:41 PM #82(09-18-2012, 04:14 PM)Siekkinen I am just wondering why you need to use that big elements?
I think his intention is to use the large (availible) elements to produce very short duration injection times. It's very difficult to get larger MW elements. Read this whole thread & the others OM616 has posted in to get a full uderstanding.
Ed
09-18-2012, 06:45 PM
#83
(09-18-2012, 01:30 AM)JustPassinThru PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a set of five 135 bar injectors, I pulled them from an '83 300D this morning. But I want them back soon. With either 265 or 315 nozzles in 'em and balanced. Consider us WVO guys in your design: please test for pop pressure and spray pattern using a mixture of 870 milliliters of Mazola corn oil or any brand of pure canola oil, 80 milliliters of kerosene or odorless mineral spirits, 50 milliliters of gasoline, and 15 milliliters of Diesel Kleen (you can pour it in your tank when you're done; in 5 gallons or more of #2 diesel you won't notice the difference, except your engine may run slightly better). Also, I trust you will build my pump using Viton gaskets. I've got a spare MW pump lying around doing nothing, but it's off a non-turbo 1979 300D. No ALDA.
LOL...... Hold on there tiger
. Regarding the Injectors, They are a PIA!!! I recommend contacting Greazzer ( I think it is) in the Bosio and Monark thread. He may be interested in what you are looking to do.
Regarding your pump. I have tried to think of a way to say this with out coming off as a prick, but... I have failed to come up with an alternative to blunt honesty lol... I have no interest in any pumps that will be fed anything but #2 diesel. No Bio-diesel in any concentration either.
Sorry, but any pump failure with my name attached to it is not acceptable to me, and that is regardless of any acceptance of personal responsibility for putting God knows what through the pump, it is a sure way to create a failure.
This is why I am very reluctant to build any pumps other than mine. I bet Dieselmeken would not touch one that he knew unknown fuels would be fed into it. However I do not want to speak for him in this regard.
I would be happy to sell you the elements if you want to pursue another shop to install them.
There…. End of prick mode… LOL
This post was last modified: 09-18-2012, 07:01 PM by OM616.
(09-18-2012, 01:30 AM)JustPassinThru PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a set of five 135 bar injectors, I pulled them from an '83 300D this morning. But I want them back soon. With either 265 or 315 nozzles in 'em and balanced. Consider us WVO guys in your design: please test for pop pressure and spray pattern using a mixture of 870 milliliters of Mazola corn oil or any brand of pure canola oil, 80 milliliters of kerosene or odorless mineral spirits, 50 milliliters of gasoline, and 15 milliliters of Diesel Kleen (you can pour it in your tank when you're done; in 5 gallons or more of #2 diesel you won't notice the difference, except your engine may run slightly better). Also, I trust you will build my pump using Viton gaskets. I've got a spare MW pump lying around doing nothing, but it's off a non-turbo 1979 300D. No ALDA.
LOL...... Hold on there tiger
. Regarding the Injectors, They are a PIA!!! I recommend contacting Greazzer ( I think it is) in the Bosio and Monark thread. He may be interested in what you are looking to do.
Regarding your pump. I have tried to think of a way to say this with out coming off as a prick, but... I have failed to come up with an alternative to blunt honesty lol... I have no interest in any pumps that will be fed anything but #2 diesel. No Bio-diesel in any concentration either.
Sorry, but any pump failure with my name attached to it is not acceptable to me, and that is regardless of any acceptance of personal responsibility for putting God knows what through the pump, it is a sure way to create a failure.
This is why I am very reluctant to build any pumps other than mine. I bet Dieselmeken would not touch one that he knew unknown fuels would be fed into it. However I do not want to speak for him in this regard.
I would be happy to sell you the elements if you want to pursue another shop to install them.
There…. End of prick mode… LOL
09-18-2012, 07:54 PM
#84
But what about the injectors? I am capable of installing and balancing injector nozzles myself. I know from seeing with my own two eyes that this fuel sprays perfectly, at a pop pressure of 131 bar, through both the original stock Bosch nozzles and through Monark 261's. But I would like to know, before leaping, what the spray pattern looks like out of the 265 or 315 nozzles, before committing to purchase of the 10 mm elements.
PM me the price of the 10 mm elements and the nozzles then.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
09-18-2012, 07:54 PM #84OK, I'll take my chances on having the pump rebuilt locally then...maybe.
But what about the injectors? I am capable of installing and balancing injector nozzles myself. I know from seeing with my own two eyes that this fuel sprays perfectly, at a pop pressure of 131 bar, through both the original stock Bosch nozzles and through Monark 261's. But I would like to know, before leaping, what the spray pattern looks like out of the 265 or 315 nozzles, before committing to purchase of the 10 mm elements.
PM me the price of the 10 mm elements and the nozzles then.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
09-18-2012, 08:12 PM
#85
(09-18-2012, 06:45 PM)OM616(09-18-2012, 01:30 AM)JustPassinThru PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a set of five 135 bar injectors, I pulled them from an '83 300D this morning. But I want them back soon. With either 265 or 315 nozzles in 'em and balanced. Consider us WVO guys in your design: please test for pop pressure and spray pattern using a mixture of 870 milliliters of Mazola corn oil or any brand of pure canola oil, 80 milliliters of kerosene or odorless mineral spirits, 50 milliliters of gasoline, and 15 milliliters of Diesel Kleen (you can pour it in your tank when you're done; in 5 gallons or more of #2 diesel you won't notice the difference, except your engine may run slightly better). Also, I trust you will build my pump using Viton gaskets. I've got a spare MW pump lying around doing nothing, but it's off a non-turbo 1979 300D. No ALDA.
LOL...... Hold on there tiger
Regarding the Injectors, They are a PIA!!! I recommend contacting Greazzer ( I think it is) in the Bosio and Monark thread. He may be interested in what you are looking to do.
Regarding your pump. I have tried to think of a way to say this with out coming off as a prick, but... I have failed to come up with an alternative to blunt honesty lol... I have no interest in any pumps that will be fed anything but #2 diesel. No Bio-diesel in any concentration either.
Sorry, but any pump failure with my name attached to it is not acceptable to me, and that is regardless of any acceptance of personal responsibility for putting God knows what through the pump, it is a sure way to create a failure.
This is why I am very reluctant to build any pumps other than mine. I bet Dieselmeken would not touch one that he knew unknown fuels would be fed into it. However I do not want to speak for him in this regard.
I would be happy to sell you the elements if you want to pursue another shop to install them.
There…. End of prick mode… LOL
Wow, 616, that sounds like some harsh feelings towards alternative fuels. Specifically, I'm talking about biodiesel. I run B100 that is commercially produced by a large refinery to exacting federal regulations. We sell (and I use) tallow methylester during the warmer months, due to the higher gel point and higher cetane than rapeseed/soy methylester. A couple months ago, our product tested at 63.1 and consistently tests at higher than 60. My engine runs noticeably smoother on B100 than it does on B5. The ONLY downside I have come across is that my fuel delivery line and the filler neck rubber are starting to show signs of degradation.
Besides all that, #2 diesel is very rarely available to the general public. At least in these parts, the only diesel available at retail pumps is ULSD, which is much lower cetane (45 or lower, generally lower), and is blended with biodiesel at the 1-5% level, anyway, which is contrary to your wishes. Should all parties interested in your service only fill up with red diesel? Or at locomotive stations? Or use Jet A?
I do (did?) have sincere interest in eventually procuring your service of pump upgrade. I mean no offense in my post. I simply would like to know what reasons, if any, my (particular) choice of fuel would spell lowered reliability or performance with an OM616-powered pump.
Either way, thanks for the wonderful information you continue to provide to the community!
This post was last modified: 09-18-2012, 08:26 PM by Secondaries.
1984 Mercedes-Benz 300TD Turbo - 260k miles - Daily driver
1982 Yamaha XV920RJ - 9k miles - Currently in pieces
I have valve wrenches and timing tools for rent! PM for details!
Secondaries
09-18-2012, 08:12 PM #85(09-18-2012, 06:45 PM)OM616(09-18-2012, 01:30 AM)JustPassinThru PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a set of five 135 bar injectors, I pulled them from an '83 300D this morning. But I want them back soon. With either 265 or 315 nozzles in 'em and balanced. Consider us WVO guys in your design: please test for pop pressure and spray pattern using a mixture of 870 milliliters of Mazola corn oil or any brand of pure canola oil, 80 milliliters of kerosene or odorless mineral spirits, 50 milliliters of gasoline, and 15 milliliters of Diesel Kleen (you can pour it in your tank when you're done; in 5 gallons or more of #2 diesel you won't notice the difference, except your engine may run slightly better). Also, I trust you will build my pump using Viton gaskets. I've got a spare MW pump lying around doing nothing, but it's off a non-turbo 1979 300D. No ALDA.
LOL...... Hold on there tiger
Regarding the Injectors, They are a PIA!!! I recommend contacting Greazzer ( I think it is) in the Bosio and Monark thread. He may be interested in what you are looking to do.
Regarding your pump. I have tried to think of a way to say this with out coming off as a prick, but... I have failed to come up with an alternative to blunt honesty lol... I have no interest in any pumps that will be fed anything but #2 diesel. No Bio-diesel in any concentration either.
Sorry, but any pump failure with my name attached to it is not acceptable to me, and that is regardless of any acceptance of personal responsibility for putting God knows what through the pump, it is a sure way to create a failure.
This is why I am very reluctant to build any pumps other than mine. I bet Dieselmeken would not touch one that he knew unknown fuels would be fed into it. However I do not want to speak for him in this regard.
I would be happy to sell you the elements if you want to pursue another shop to install them.
There…. End of prick mode… LOL
Wow, 616, that sounds like some harsh feelings towards alternative fuels. Specifically, I'm talking about biodiesel. I run B100 that is commercially produced by a large refinery to exacting federal regulations. We sell (and I use) tallow methylester during the warmer months, due to the higher gel point and higher cetane than rapeseed/soy methylester. A couple months ago, our product tested at 63.1 and consistently tests at higher than 60. My engine runs noticeably smoother on B100 than it does on B5. The ONLY downside I have come across is that my fuel delivery line and the filler neck rubber are starting to show signs of degradation.
Besides all that, #2 diesel is very rarely available to the general public. At least in these parts, the only diesel available at retail pumps is ULSD, which is much lower cetane (45 or lower, generally lower), and is blended with biodiesel at the 1-5% level, anyway, which is contrary to your wishes. Should all parties interested in your service only fill up with red diesel? Or at locomotive stations? Or use Jet A?
I do (did?) have sincere interest in eventually procuring your service of pump upgrade. I mean no offense in my post. I simply would like to know what reasons, if any, my (particular) choice of fuel would spell lowered reliability or performance with an OM616-powered pump.
Either way, thanks for the wonderful information you continue to provide to the community!
1984 Mercedes-Benz 300TD Turbo - 260k miles - Daily driver
1982 Yamaha XV920RJ - 9k miles - Currently in pieces
I have valve wrenches and timing tools for rent! PM for details!
09-18-2012, 11:14 PM
#86
(09-18-2012, 08:12 PM)Secondaries Wow, 616, that sounds like some harsh feelings towards alternative fuels. Specifically, I'm talking about biodiesel. I run B100 that is commercially produced by a large refinery to exacting federal regulations. We sell (and I use) tallow methylester during the warmer months, due to the higher gel point and higher cetane than rapeseed/soy methylester. A couple months ago, our product tested at 63.1 and consistently tests at higher than 60. My engine runs noticeably smoother on B100 than it does on B5. The ONLY downside I have come across is that my fuel delivery line and the filler neck rubber are starting to show signs of degradation.
Besides all that, #2 diesel is very rarely available to the general public. At least in these parts, the only diesel available at retail pumps is ULSD, which is much lower cetane (45 or lower, generally lower), and is blended with biodiesel at the 1-5% level, anyway, which is contrary to your wishes. Should all parties interested in your service only fill up with red diesel? Or at locomotive stations? Or use Jet A?
I do (did?) have sincere interest in eventually procuring your service of pump upgrade. I mean no offense in my post. I simply would like to know what reasons, if any, my (particular) choice of fuel would spell lowered reliability or performance with an OM616-powered pump.
Either way, thanks for the wonderful information you continue to provide to the community!
I figured that I would be challenged, so I will make an attempt to address your reaction to my reaction lol. Keep in mind good humor is always intended even when poorly executed, and that my position is based on that it is mine and it is good to be King of my domain.
First, you pointed out that #2 diesel is not available for street use any more and you would be correct, habit is hard to brake, lol. I would like to clarify that by #2, I am indicating pump dino diesel, I have many more years buying it as #2 than the Ultra Low Sulfur stuff it is now, so good you pointed that out.
Any fuel that has a "B" in front of it is in the bio fuel family as far as I am concerned, which makes a great cleaning agent, and as you pointed out, it eats rubber.
Now I would like to clarify that I do not give a fat frog's fanny what anyone puts in their fuel tank.....really.....not a flip. My issue is based on a quality control perspective, for lack of a better term. When I release anything out into the world, it represents me. Its performance at the task it was intended to perform is a reflection of my standards and character; and as such, anything, (which includes personal), that possibility could compromise the performance of what ever it is that is to perform, has an equal potential to compromise my reputation.
Now if we were stuck on the Island and all we had were coconuts, then I would be all for poring coconut oil in the tank to get us home, and in emergency situations I am a firm believer in maximum utilization of available resources, which may be a gallon of Canola from CVS lol.
I have seen a couple of WVO pumps that have come into the shop where I built the other pump, and let me tell you, they weren't pretty.... lol.
I would be very curious to hear what pp d and Dieselmeken think about building known veggie or bio pumps.
No Offence to anyone. I do not see this as a profitable business, I see doing a couple of pumps to recover the cost of the calibration rig, and as such, I want to eliminate any potential headaches that may result from veggie or bio pumps, that’s all.
(09-18-2012, 07:54 PM)JustPassinThru OK, I'll take my chances on having the pump rebuilt locally then...maybe.
But what about the injectors? I am capable of installing and balancing injector nozzles myself. I know from seeing with my own two eyes that this fuel sprays perfectly, at a pop pressure of 131 bar, through both the original stock Bosch nozzles and through Monark 261's. But I would like to know, before leaping, what the spray pattern looks like out of the 265 or 315 nozzles, before committing to purchase of the 10 mm elements.
PM me the price of the 10 mm elements and the nozzles then.
Again, Greazzer is the one to ask in the other thread. He did say that the Bosio nozzles were not good with veggie oil.
They are all DN0SD nozzles, so the spray angle is the same.
I am still waiting to hear on the Monark prices, but I bet they will be in the $25.00 range the 265s are.
I don't want to release any China nozzles until they are checked out.
This post was last modified: 09-18-2012, 11:27 PM by OM616.
(09-18-2012, 08:12 PM)Secondaries Wow, 616, that sounds like some harsh feelings towards alternative fuels. Specifically, I'm talking about biodiesel. I run B100 that is commercially produced by a large refinery to exacting federal regulations. We sell (and I use) tallow methylester during the warmer months, due to the higher gel point and higher cetane than rapeseed/soy methylester. A couple months ago, our product tested at 63.1 and consistently tests at higher than 60. My engine runs noticeably smoother on B100 than it does on B5. The ONLY downside I have come across is that my fuel delivery line and the filler neck rubber are starting to show signs of degradation.
Besides all that, #2 diesel is very rarely available to the general public. At least in these parts, the only diesel available at retail pumps is ULSD, which is much lower cetane (45 or lower, generally lower), and is blended with biodiesel at the 1-5% level, anyway, which is contrary to your wishes. Should all parties interested in your service only fill up with red diesel? Or at locomotive stations? Or use Jet A?
I do (did?) have sincere interest in eventually procuring your service of pump upgrade. I mean no offense in my post. I simply would like to know what reasons, if any, my (particular) choice of fuel would spell lowered reliability or performance with an OM616-powered pump.
Either way, thanks for the wonderful information you continue to provide to the community!
I figured that I would be challenged, so I will make an attempt to address your reaction to my reaction lol. Keep in mind good humor is always intended even when poorly executed, and that my position is based on that it is mine and it is good to be King of my domain.
First, you pointed out that #2 diesel is not available for street use any more and you would be correct, habit is hard to brake, lol. I would like to clarify that by #2, I am indicating pump dino diesel, I have many more years buying it as #2 than the Ultra Low Sulfur stuff it is now, so good you pointed that out.
Any fuel that has a "B" in front of it is in the bio fuel family as far as I am concerned, which makes a great cleaning agent, and as you pointed out, it eats rubber.
Now I would like to clarify that I do not give a fat frog's fanny what anyone puts in their fuel tank.....really.....not a flip. My issue is based on a quality control perspective, for lack of a better term. When I release anything out into the world, it represents me. Its performance at the task it was intended to perform is a reflection of my standards and character; and as such, anything, (which includes personal), that possibility could compromise the performance of what ever it is that is to perform, has an equal potential to compromise my reputation.
Now if we were stuck on the Island and all we had were coconuts, then I would be all for poring coconut oil in the tank to get us home, and in emergency situations I am a firm believer in maximum utilization of available resources, which may be a gallon of Canola from CVS lol.
I have seen a couple of WVO pumps that have come into the shop where I built the other pump, and let me tell you, they weren't pretty.... lol.
I would be very curious to hear what pp d and Dieselmeken think about building known veggie or bio pumps.
No Offence to anyone. I do not see this as a profitable business, I see doing a couple of pumps to recover the cost of the calibration rig, and as such, I want to eliminate any potential headaches that may result from veggie or bio pumps, that’s all.
(09-18-2012, 07:54 PM)JustPassinThru OK, I'll take my chances on having the pump rebuilt locally then...maybe.
But what about the injectors? I am capable of installing and balancing injector nozzles myself. I know from seeing with my own two eyes that this fuel sprays perfectly, at a pop pressure of 131 bar, through both the original stock Bosch nozzles and through Monark 261's. But I would like to know, before leaping, what the spray pattern looks like out of the 265 or 315 nozzles, before committing to purchase of the 10 mm elements.
PM me the price of the 10 mm elements and the nozzles then.
Again, Greazzer is the one to ask in the other thread. He did say that the Bosio nozzles were not good with veggie oil.
They are all DN0SD nozzles, so the spray angle is the same.
I am still waiting to hear on the Monark prices, but I bet they will be in the $25.00 range the 265s are.
I don't want to release any China nozzles until they are checked out.
09-19-2012, 02:26 AM
#87
(09-18-2012, 11:14 PM)OM616 ...I have seen a couple of WVO pumps that have come into the shop where I built the other pump, and let me tell you, they weren't pretty...I would be very curious to hear what pp d and Dieselmeken think about building known veggie or bio pumps...
I have had PM discussion with tomnik on this subject. I am uncertain what the legal status is of burning veggie oil as fuel in Germany, where tomnik lives. Suffice it to say, both tomnik and Pasi (pp d) are well acquainted with, and have no technical objections to, the use of either biodiesel or veggie oil in Pasi's pumps and tomnik's elements, as long as the fuel is of high quality. Both Goran (dieselmeken) and Pasi (pp d) rebuild with Viton.
What I need to establish before I leap into a set of the 10 mm elements is, whether the nozzles recommended to go with them (the 315's) spray equally well as the 261's I have, using my fuel, and what pop pressure is ideal.
I know that Greazzer performs the yeoman service of cleaning and setting nozzles, but I too have an ultrasonic cleaner, Proxxon tool and steel wool, a stash of shims and pulled injectors, and a pop tester. I have done the sets on my own two 300D's four times (twice each with the original Bosch nozzles and with Monark 261's). Do you (or anybody reading this) have enough 315's that you could loan me one, so I can mount and pop-pressure-set it at 131 and 135 bar and observe the spray patterns?
This post was last modified: 09-19-2012, 01:12 PM by JustPassinThru.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
09-19-2012, 02:26 AM #87(09-18-2012, 11:14 PM)OM616 ...I have seen a couple of WVO pumps that have come into the shop where I built the other pump, and let me tell you, they weren't pretty...I would be very curious to hear what pp d and Dieselmeken think about building known veggie or bio pumps...
I have had PM discussion with tomnik on this subject. I am uncertain what the legal status is of burning veggie oil as fuel in Germany, where tomnik lives. Suffice it to say, both tomnik and Pasi (pp d) are well acquainted with, and have no technical objections to, the use of either biodiesel or veggie oil in Pasi's pumps and tomnik's elements, as long as the fuel is of high quality. Both Goran (dieselmeken) and Pasi (pp d) rebuild with Viton.
What I need to establish before I leap into a set of the 10 mm elements is, whether the nozzles recommended to go with them (the 315's) spray equally well as the 261's I have, using my fuel, and what pop pressure is ideal.
I know that Greazzer performs the yeoman service of cleaning and setting nozzles, but I too have an ultrasonic cleaner, Proxxon tool and steel wool, a stash of shims and pulled injectors, and a pop tester. I have done the sets on my own two 300D's four times (twice each with the original Bosch nozzles and with Monark 261's). Do you (or anybody reading this) have enough 315's that you could loan me one, so I can mount and pop-pressure-set it at 131 and 135 bar and observe the spray patterns?
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
09-19-2012, 04:45 PM
#88
(09-19-2012, 02:26 AM)JustPassinThru I have had PM discussion with tomnik on this subject. I am uncertain what the legal status is of burning veggie oil as fuel in Germany, where tomnik lives. Suffice it to say, both tomnik and Pasi (pp d) are well acquainted with, and have no technical objections to, the use of either biodiesel or veggie oil in Pasi's pumps and tomnik's elements, as long as the fuel is of high quality. Both Goran (dieselmeken) and Pasi (pp d) rebuild with Viton.
The legal aspects do tend to get some really spooled up LOL...
As far as building a alt-fuel pump..... The two top pump guys on the forum would be my first recommendation ... local would be second as they are not subjected to the public view as pp d and dieselmeken are.
Goes with out saying that I am using Viton o-rings.
(09-19-2012, 02:26 AM)JustPassinThru What I need to establish before I leap into a set of the 10 mm elements is, whether the nozzles recommended to go with them (the 315's) spray equally well as the 261's I have, using my fuel, and what pop pressure is ideal.
I know that Greazzer performs the yeoman service of cleaning and setting nozzles, but I too have an ultrasonic cleaner, Proxxon tool and steel wool, a stash of shims and pulled injectors, and a pop tester. I have done the sets on my own two 300D's four times (twice each with the original Bosch nozzles and with Monark 261's). Do you (or anybody reading this) have enough 315's that you could loan me one, so I can mount and pop-pressure-set it at 131 and 135 bar and observe the spray patterns?
I saw your PM, all the elements I ordered are spoken for. I do have extra Chinese Nozzles, ( I am not selling any to be installed in an engine until the quality has been established), I would consider selling you one so you can play with it though.
(09-19-2012, 02:26 AM)JustPassinThru I have had PM discussion with tomnik on this subject. I am uncertain what the legal status is of burning veggie oil as fuel in Germany, where tomnik lives. Suffice it to say, both tomnik and Pasi (pp d) are well acquainted with, and have no technical objections to, the use of either biodiesel or veggie oil in Pasi's pumps and tomnik's elements, as long as the fuel is of high quality. Both Goran (dieselmeken) and Pasi (pp d) rebuild with Viton.
The legal aspects do tend to get some really spooled up LOL...
As far as building a alt-fuel pump..... The two top pump guys on the forum would be my first recommendation ... local would be second as they are not subjected to the public view as pp d and dieselmeken are.
Goes with out saying that I am using Viton o-rings.
(09-19-2012, 02:26 AM)JustPassinThru What I need to establish before I leap into a set of the 10 mm elements is, whether the nozzles recommended to go with them (the 315's) spray equally well as the 261's I have, using my fuel, and what pop pressure is ideal.
I know that Greazzer performs the yeoman service of cleaning and setting nozzles, but I too have an ultrasonic cleaner, Proxxon tool and steel wool, a stash of shims and pulled injectors, and a pop tester. I have done the sets on my own two 300D's four times (twice each with the original Bosch nozzles and with Monark 261's). Do you (or anybody reading this) have enough 315's that you could loan me one, so I can mount and pop-pressure-set it at 131 and 135 bar and observe the spray patterns?
I saw your PM, all the elements I ordered are spoken for. I do have extra Chinese Nozzles, ( I am not selling any to be installed in an engine until the quality has been established), I would consider selling you one so you can play with it though.
09-19-2012, 10:28 PM
#89
This post was last modified: 09-19-2012, 10:29 PM by sassparilla_kid.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-19-2012, 10:28 PM #89So, assuming everything with these new elements, nozzles, etc. all goes well for the pumps you are already obligated to build, when do you think you will be ready/able to do another batch?
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
09-19-2012, 11:32 PM
#90
(09-19-2012, 10:28 PM)sassparilla_kid So, assuming everything with these new elements, nozzles, etc. all goes well for the pumps you are already obligated to build, when do you think you will be ready/able to do another batch?
That is the $10,000 question..... A lot depends on how smoothly everything goes, how many there are, plus it will depend if the parts are in stock when that time came.
It is not like I will be flooded with them, so don't worry about not being able to get in line.
As a side note, I asked the China manufacturer about their expectations on the performance life of their nozzles, they said their nozzles have a 10 month warranty, I was surprised to hear that.
(09-19-2012, 10:28 PM)sassparilla_kid So, assuming everything with these new elements, nozzles, etc. all goes well for the pumps you are already obligated to build, when do you think you will be ready/able to do another batch?
That is the $10,000 question..... A lot depends on how smoothly everything goes, how many there are, plus it will depend if the parts are in stock when that time came.
It is not like I will be flooded with them, so don't worry about not being able to get in line.
As a side note, I asked the China manufacturer about their expectations on the performance life of their nozzles, they said their nozzles have a 10 month warranty, I was surprised to hear that.
09-20-2012, 12:44 AM
#91
(09-19-2012, 04:45 PM)OM616 ...As far as building a alt-fuel pump..... The two top pump guys on the forum would be my first recommendation ... local would be second as they are not subjected to the public view as pp d and dieselmeken are...
But the main point of buying from you is that it would save me a tremendous amount of money over the $1200 to $1600 that the build costs from dieselmeken or pp d, once shipping (and in pp d's case, a wire-transfer, since that is the only form of payment he accepts) is figured in.
Are you willing to (or, have you already, but I didn't catch it) share(d):
1. Source of the Bosch 10 mm # 1 418 415 051 elements.
2. Identity and source of the delivery valves.
3. Identity and source of the 315 nozzles.
4. ...and any other tricks up your sleeves
?
(09-19-2012, 04:45 PM)OM616 ...I do have extra Chinese Nozzles, ( I am not selling any to be installed in an engine until the quality has been established), I would consider selling you one so you can play with it though.
I'll wait until you have proven the overall design then. Not gonna pay hard cash for just the hoof of a pig in a poke. But if you will share your sources, I will go see what my local IP guru thinks of the overall plan.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
09-20-2012, 12:44 AM #91(09-19-2012, 04:45 PM)OM616 ...As far as building a alt-fuel pump..... The two top pump guys on the forum would be my first recommendation ... local would be second as they are not subjected to the public view as pp d and dieselmeken are...
But the main point of buying from you is that it would save me a tremendous amount of money over the $1200 to $1600 that the build costs from dieselmeken or pp d, once shipping (and in pp d's case, a wire-transfer, since that is the only form of payment he accepts) is figured in.
Are you willing to (or, have you already, but I didn't catch it) share(d):
1. Source of the Bosch 10 mm # 1 418 415 051 elements.
2. Identity and source of the delivery valves.
3. Identity and source of the 315 nozzles.
4. ...and any other tricks up your sleeves
?
(09-19-2012, 04:45 PM)OM616 ...I do have extra Chinese Nozzles, ( I am not selling any to be installed in an engine until the quality has been established), I would consider selling you one so you can play with it though.
I'll wait until you have proven the overall design then. Not gonna pay hard cash for just the hoof of a pig in a poke. But if you will share your sources, I will go see what my local IP guru thinks of the overall plan.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
09-20-2012, 12:06 PM
#92
(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru But the main point of buying from you is that it would save me a tremendous amount of money over the $1200 to $1600 that the build costs from dieselmeken or pp d, once shipping (and in pp d's case, a wire-transfer, since that is the only form of payment he accepts) is figured in.
Would it make you feel better if I required $1800.00 for a pump....?
You do bring up a good point though, I have invested my "hard cash" and time to sort through the "hoof of a pig in a pokes", and I should add the costs of that time and expense to any pumps that I do for anyone.
If I factor in my costs to get to this point, and amortize it over say the 4 or 5 pumps that I for see doing, then the price would easily be over a grand, and there would be some profit in them that way...I will have to think about that..
(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru But the main point of buying from you is that it would save me a tremendous amount of money over the $1200 to $1600 that the build costs from dieselmeken or pp d, once shipping (and in pp d's case, a wire-transfer, since that is the only form of payment he accepts) is figured in.
Would it make you feel better if I required $1800.00 for a pump....?
You do bring up a good point though, I have invested my "hard cash" and time to sort through the "hoof of a pig in a pokes", and I should add the costs of that time and expense to any pumps that I do for anyone.
If I factor in my costs to get to this point, and amortize it over say the 4 or 5 pumps that I for see doing, then the price would easily be over a grand, and there would be some profit in them that way...I will have to think about that..
09-20-2012, 12:10 PM
#93
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Since I have not chimed in yet, I got some Goran Magic by way of a modified "M" pump which I am very, very "pump" to install to see what happens. I have had it for a bunch of months now, with one thing after another gobbling up my time, but I am getting close. The block has new sleeves now, and the long block is being assembled by Columbia's finest. Everything balanced, polished, et cet. I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming) so I will post my resuts shortly on the Phoenix Project Thread in the projects.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
09-20-2012, 12:45 PM
#94
(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru Are you willing to (or, have you already, but I didn't catch it) share(d):
1. Source of the Bosch 10 mm # 1 418 415 051 elements.
2. Identity and source of the delivery valves.
3. Identity and source of the 315 nozzles.
4. ...and any other tricks up your sleeves
?
You're not answering my questions.
Greazzer ...I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming)...
To bring a set of five to +/- "zero" PSI took me about 100 hours the first try, 50 hours the latest time. And I waste a *lot* of shims. Which is why I don't compete with you
.Can someone please tell me, out of what vehicle(s) (if any) I could go pull some 315 nozzles? With the 261's, 1925.7 psi (131 bar) (slightly below the FSM spec for ordinary diesel fuel) produces the best spray pattern, for the 87% WVO blend I burn.
This post was last modified: 09-20-2012, 12:54 PM by JustPassinThru.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
09-20-2012, 12:45 PM #94(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru Are you willing to (or, have you already, but I didn't catch it) share(d):
1. Source of the Bosch 10 mm # 1 418 415 051 elements.
2. Identity and source of the delivery valves.
3. Identity and source of the 315 nozzles.
4. ...and any other tricks up your sleeves
?
You're not answering my questions.
Greazzer ...I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming)...
To bring a set of five to +/- "zero" PSI took me about 100 hours the first try, 50 hours the latest time. And I waste a *lot* of shims. Which is why I don't compete with you
.Can someone please tell me, out of what vehicle(s) (if any) I could go pull some 315 nozzles? With the 261's, 1925.7 psi (131 bar) (slightly below the FSM spec for ordinary diesel fuel) produces the best spray pattern, for the 87% WVO blend I burn.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
09-20-2012, 02:02 PM
#95
(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru Are you willing to (or, have you already, but I didn't catch it) share(d):
1. Source of the Bosch 10 mm # 1 418 415 051 elements.
2. Identity and source of the delivery valves.
3. Identity and source of the 315 nozzles.
4. ...and any other tricks up your sleeves
?
You're not answering my questions.
That was not an oversight on my part. Now I am starting to get seriously irritated....... HINT HINT.....
Since I am here again.... I really need to add some value for the information that was provided by friends behind the seans, and for every pump that I charge for I should send them a cut as well, as I value the time and expense that they invested to acquire their knowledge....
(09-20-2012, 12:10 PM)Greazzer Since I have not chimed in yet, I got some Goran Magic by way of a modified "M" pump which I am very, very "pump" to install to see what happens. I have had it for a bunch of months now, with one thing after another gobbling up my time, but I am getting close. The block has new sleeves now, and the long block is being assembled by Columbia's finest. Everything balanced, polished, et cet. I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming) so I will post my resuts shortly on the Phoenix Project Thread in the projects.
Thanks for the attempt to redirect lol...
This post was last modified: 09-20-2012, 02:04 PM by OM616.
(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru(09-20-2012, 12:44 AM)JustPassinThru Are you willing to (or, have you already, but I didn't catch it) share(d):
1. Source of the Bosch 10 mm # 1 418 415 051 elements.
2. Identity and source of the delivery valves.
3. Identity and source of the 315 nozzles.
4. ...and any other tricks up your sleeves
?
You're not answering my questions.
That was not an oversight on my part. Now I am starting to get seriously irritated....... HINT HINT.....
Since I am here again.... I really need to add some value for the information that was provided by friends behind the seans, and for every pump that I charge for I should send them a cut as well, as I value the time and expense that they invested to acquire their knowledge....
(09-20-2012, 12:10 PM)Greazzer Since I have not chimed in yet, I got some Goran Magic by way of a modified "M" pump which I am very, very "pump" to install to see what happens. I have had it for a bunch of months now, with one thing after another gobbling up my time, but I am getting close. The block has new sleeves now, and the long block is being assembled by Columbia's finest. Everything balanced, polished, et cet. I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming) so I will post my resuts shortly on the Phoenix Project Thread in the projects.
Thanks for the attempt to redirect lol...
09-20-2012, 03:30 PM
#96
1. I am not sure how this works, but this is one way to find out.
Pretty good method ... just ask !
2. I am curious as to how many members with MW IPs want, (and can afford), a modded IP, and how many members with M IPs want, (and can afford), a modded IP.
I had a MW pump in my MB before it got totaled. Those pumps are everywhere and cheap buy from JY. BUT, I would rather go with the "M" Pump. Why ? Seems to be proven technology. I have not seen any mod'd "MW" pumps out there. If so, I think this forum would have been flooded with info on them, where to get parts, et cet.
3. I put the "can afford" because I want lots of stuff that I can't afford. Consider this non scientific market research.
It is scientific as any market research if you get enough responses. When I joined this forum about 2 years or so ago, one of the posts or threads claimed it will take a minimum of $11K to get a STD -- SuperTurboDiesel. Quite frankly, that figure is grossly overstated. With luck, horse swapping, trading, JY finds, I think one can walk away with well under half that. That assumes a decent car to start with, however. BUT, I think it is fair to say that this is one of the most pricey upgrades or mod's one can do. When all is said and done, I think dumping $1,500 or so into a mod'd pump is the costs of the hobby. BUT, on a side note, burning WVO for one year will save you more than that ...
As for market research issues, a "MW" pump is the way to go when it comes to abundance. You can hit any Pull-A-Part in the franchise here in the SE, and find a 300D pretty regularily and get the IP for under $50.00. Try that for the "M" pump. The "M" Pump costs double and they are tough to find. So, if you can crack the code on parts and the technology and machining to make a dependable "MW" pump, you will have sales. BUT, what is the universal demand ? There is abundant supply, but demand ? How many STD nutjobs are there ?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
I guess I should have been more direct. My bad --
1. I am not sure how this works, but this is one way to find out.
Pretty good method ... just ask !
2. I am curious as to how many members with MW IPs want, (and can afford), a modded IP, and how many members with M IPs want, (and can afford), a modded IP.
I had a MW pump in my MB before it got totaled. Those pumps are everywhere and cheap buy from JY. BUT, I would rather go with the "M" Pump. Why ? Seems to be proven technology. I have not seen any mod'd "MW" pumps out there. If so, I think this forum would have been flooded with info on them, where to get parts, et cet.
3. I put the "can afford" because I want lots of stuff that I can't afford. Consider this non scientific market research.
It is scientific as any market research if you get enough responses. When I joined this forum about 2 years or so ago, one of the posts or threads claimed it will take a minimum of $11K to get a STD -- SuperTurboDiesel. Quite frankly, that figure is grossly overstated. With luck, horse swapping, trading, JY finds, I think one can walk away with well under half that. That assumes a decent car to start with, however. BUT, I think it is fair to say that this is one of the most pricey upgrades or mod's one can do. When all is said and done, I think dumping $1,500 or so into a mod'd pump is the costs of the hobby. BUT, on a side note, burning WVO for one year will save you more than that ...
As for market research issues, a "MW" pump is the way to go when it comes to abundance. You can hit any Pull-A-Part in the franchise here in the SE, and find a 300D pretty regularily and get the IP for under $50.00. Try that for the "M" pump. The "M" Pump costs double and they are tough to find. So, if you can crack the code on parts and the technology and machining to make a dependable "MW" pump, you will have sales. BUT, what is the universal demand ? There is abundant supply, but demand ? How many STD nutjobs are there ?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
09-20-2012, 04:08 PM
#97
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
09-20-2012, 04:08 PM #97Actually, I am not willing to risk my car by entrusting such a critical component as the IP to someone who cannot even spell the word "scenes." Strike three, kid. You're out, as far as I'm concerned.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
09-20-2012, 05:51 PM
#98
(09-20-2012, 04:08 PM)JustPassinThru Actually, I am not willing to risk my car by entrusting such a critical component as the IP to someone who cannot even spell the word "scenes." Strike three, kid. You're out, as far as I'm concerned.You are kicking the most knowledgable person on MW pumps in the USA to the curb for some grammatical issues? I worked for a man who knew more than anyone I have ever met about "Botes".... That's how he spelled it... Carnival cruise lines hired him to reduce each cabin by 327#. He laughed & told them 550# was simple & still safe. His first day of gutting a cabin left 1227# by the wayside. By the 5th day, 2126# was removed from each basic cabin.
Go pay 1500 - 2000 for an M pump... I'll wait for him to perfect the cheap & simple MW here & throw that engine into a few trucks & SUVs & laugh at you all the way....
Ed
yankneck696
09-20-2012, 05:51 PM #98(09-20-2012, 04:08 PM)JustPassinThru Actually, I am not willing to risk my car by entrusting such a critical component as the IP to someone who cannot even spell the word "scenes." Strike three, kid. You're out, as far as I'm concerned.You are kicking the most knowledgable person on MW pumps in the USA to the curb for some grammatical issues? I worked for a man who knew more than anyone I have ever met about "Botes".... That's how he spelled it... Carnival cruise lines hired him to reduce each cabin by 327#. He laughed & told them 550# was simple & still safe. His first day of gutting a cabin left 1227# by the wayside. By the 5th day, 2126# was removed from each basic cabin.
Go pay 1500 - 2000 for an M pump... I'll wait for him to perfect the cheap & simple MW here & throw that engine into a few trucks & SUVs & laugh at you all the way....
Ed
09-20-2012, 07:33 PM
#99
You've already generously served the folks who aren't well-heeled with your document, free of charge, and you've made it pretty clear that you're wary of dealing with the public. Keep the price high to ensure the public is serious.
raysorenson
09-20-2012, 07:33 PM #99The price point should be high, should the product deliver for you and your beta testers. Once you drop below a price threshold, the quality of customer drops. Customers with less investment in your product are more likely to go nuclear on the intarweb, have unrealistic expectations, have other issues with the engine that they can't afford to fix, and possibly have less knowledge needed to optimize the engine with your product.
You've already generously served the folks who aren't well-heeled with your document, free of charge, and you've made it pretty clear that you're wary of dealing with the public. Keep the price high to ensure the public is serious.
09-20-2012, 08:06 PM
#100
The "keep the price high" theory is tricky. Would you rather sell 5 pumps at $2,000 each or sell 25 pumps at $1,000 each? Once you got the process down to a science, and the learning curve is reached, what difference is there ? Plus, buying the parts as noted above is most likely best served by buying in bulk of a minimum order of 100 sets, for example. Plus, assuming buying in bulk is the most viable way to go, one already has 100 sets of parts for 100 pumps which need to be moved.
Once the cat is out of the bag on how to do this, and once a vendor in China realizes his market based can go from one to two, or more, then clowns like me will try to figure out how to do this on their own. The problem with jokers like me is that I only need 1 or 2 moded pumps during my life and I don't have the equipment to calibrate the pumps, et cet., so that is why I go to the Gorans of the world.
I think this might be the basic or fundamental problem with this and many of the mod's we all long for. The one'sies and two'sies are very costly and there are few vendors offering a real COTS item (commercial off the shelf) at decent pricing.
Hope I spelled everything correctly ... LOL. But yes, I would not trust an experimental item which was super costly and could cause some serious problems with my beautiful rebuilt engine ... no redirect intended.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Out of curiosity, and assuming 100 modified "MW" pumps could be sold during the next 2 years, and assuming cores have a general price tag of $50.00 each, and excluding the costs of shipping whatever its flavor, what would the costs be for the internal parts to modify a pump ? I understand there are elements and DVs, but what else? Seals? gaskets? Assuming cheap pricing by our friends in China, and assuming you could get all of these parts, the only viable or realistic approach would be to buy a lot or a "minimum" order from a vendor in China. I highly doubt buying one'sies and two'sies is even worth it. So, I suspect those costs are most likely going to be under $200 per unit but that assumes an actual product or internals are commercially available. Then, assuming that is the "out-of-pockets", e.g., $200.00, the rest is just time.
The "keep the price high" theory is tricky. Would you rather sell 5 pumps at $2,000 each or sell 25 pumps at $1,000 each? Once you got the process down to a science, and the learning curve is reached, what difference is there ? Plus, buying the parts as noted above is most likely best served by buying in bulk of a minimum order of 100 sets, for example. Plus, assuming buying in bulk is the most viable way to go, one already has 100 sets of parts for 100 pumps which need to be moved.
Once the cat is out of the bag on how to do this, and once a vendor in China realizes his market based can go from one to two, or more, then clowns like me will try to figure out how to do this on their own. The problem with jokers like me is that I only need 1 or 2 moded pumps during my life and I don't have the equipment to calibrate the pumps, et cet., so that is why I go to the Gorans of the world.
I think this might be the basic or fundamental problem with this and many of the mod's we all long for. The one'sies and two'sies are very costly and there are few vendors offering a real COTS item (commercial off the shelf) at decent pricing.
Hope I spelled everything correctly ... LOL. But yes, I would not trust an experimental item which was super costly and could cause some serious problems with my beautiful rebuilt engine ... no redirect intended.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Users browsing this thread:
68 Guest(s)
68 Guest(s)
Users browsing this thread:
68 Guest(s)
68 Guest(s)