Poll: Number of MW owners vrs M owners who want a modded IP
Poll: Number of MW owners vrs M owners who want a modded IP
Poll: MW-IP modd or M-IP modd
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MW
M
09-20-2012, 08:52 PM
#101
(09-20-2012, 04:08 PM)JustPassinThru Actually, I am not willing to risk my car by entrusting such a critical component as the IP to someone who cannot even spell the word "scenes." Strike three, kid. You're out, as far as I'm concerned.
LOL!!!!!!! I love it!!!!!!! I honestly don't think he got it from the start... I denied every posted request he made, and he is denying me what?? a head ache that's what, lol...that is great.
Anyway... I think the hypothetical reference of 100 pumps is about 90 to many, regardless of the time span. I am with the gentleman who warned about low prices drawing low customers, his theory was just proven quite eloquently.
Additionally, there was a shop that offered to build MW pumps for $500.00, you supplied the elements, guess how many he built.....
If there was a market, some one would be filling it, and as was pointed out, no one really has. W123 owners are of the cheapest I have ever seen, often basing how much they will spend on how much they paid for the car…
Thanks to everyone who “gets it”, the problem is there are just too many who don’t.
I did get a good laugh though…. “NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!
(09-20-2012, 04:08 PM)JustPassinThru Actually, I am not willing to risk my car by entrusting such a critical component as the IP to someone who cannot even spell the word "scenes." Strike three, kid. You're out, as far as I'm concerned.
LOL!!!!!!! I love it!!!!!!! I honestly don't think he got it from the start... I denied every posted request he made, and he is denying me what?? a head ache that's what, lol...that is great.
Anyway... I think the hypothetical reference of 100 pumps is about 90 to many, regardless of the time span. I am with the gentleman who warned about low prices drawing low customers, his theory was just proven quite eloquently.
Additionally, there was a shop that offered to build MW pumps for $500.00, you supplied the elements, guess how many he built.....
If there was a market, some one would be filling it, and as was pointed out, no one really has. W123 owners are of the cheapest I have ever seen, often basing how much they will spend on how much they paid for the car…
Thanks to everyone who “gets it”, the problem is there are just too many who don’t.
I did get a good laugh though…. “NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!
09-20-2012, 09:07 PM
#102
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
W123 owners are the cheapest ... Wow. Really ? I think the W123 following pour more money and soul into their cars than most makes. Is the bubble bursting too soon on the modded "MW" ? Good luck selling these high to the high customers ! Post a thread on how it turns out.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
09-20-2012, 09:56 PM
#103
Did the bubble burst?.... I am not sure there was a bubble in the first place.
I guess one could say that I am a greedy capitalist.... and I would agree. If I am the only option to get a MW worked on, (which I am not), then am I obligated to supply services that other shops won't, as in, choose not to? If I have five pumps on a shelf, is it my duty to dispense them equally so everyone has one, ya know, so it is fair? I do find it interesting how attitudes can be affected by the concept of supply and demand. No offence to anyone, just an observation on my part.
Fear not good people.... Dieselmeken hinted at making some MW elements.
I will put this to the forum, Regardless of if I agree to build any other pumps, do I keep posting, or close it up?
I can see how it could be interpreted that I want to go into the pump business with all the information I have put out there, but I also have stressed that I am not excited about the idea.
Did the bubble burst?.... I am not sure there was a bubble in the first place.
I guess one could say that I am a greedy capitalist.... and I would agree. If I am the only option to get a MW worked on, (which I am not), then am I obligated to supply services that other shops won't, as in, choose not to? If I have five pumps on a shelf, is it my duty to dispense them equally so everyone has one, ya know, so it is fair? I do find it interesting how attitudes can be affected by the concept of supply and demand. No offence to anyone, just an observation on my part.
Fear not good people.... Dieselmeken hinted at making some MW elements.
I will put this to the forum, Regardless of if I agree to build any other pumps, do I keep posting, or close it up?
09-20-2012, 10:11 PM
#104
(09-20-2012, 09:56 PM)OM616 I can see how it could be interpreted that I want to go into the pump business with all the information I have put out there, but I also have stressed that I am not excited about the idea.
Did the bubble burst?.... I am not sure there was a bubble in the first place.
I guess one could say that I am a greedy capitalist.... and I would agree. If I am the only option to get a MW worked on, (which I am not), then am I obligated to supply services that other shops won't, as in, choose not to? If I have five pumps on a shelf, is it my duty to dispense them equally so everyone has one, ya know, so it is fair? I do find it interesting how attitudes can be affected by the concept of supply and demand. No offence to anyone, just an observation on my part.
Fear not good people.... Dieselmeken hinted at making some MW elements.
I will put this to the forum, Regardless of if I agree to build any other pumps, do I keep posting, or close it up?
I read...skimmed....dabbled on most of what was said in the past week on this thread.
IMO just do your “thang”. F*** the haters. The effort that informed posters like yourself put in is truly respectable. Especially when you throw down numbers, answer dumb questions from people that can’t read back three posts, and continue to post results even though there is constant scrutinization, I respect it.
One thing that I suggest is to only post your results. The unknown can and will be debated until there is evidence/ a unanimous conclusion. So many questions arise when a dull moment is present. I'll say in the meantime, just keep going and we ALL look forward to what conclusions you come to on this new venture.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
(09-20-2012, 09:56 PM)OM616 I can see how it could be interpreted that I want to go into the pump business with all the information I have put out there, but I also have stressed that I am not excited about the idea.
Did the bubble burst?.... I am not sure there was a bubble in the first place.
I guess one could say that I am a greedy capitalist.... and I would agree. If I am the only option to get a MW worked on, (which I am not), then am I obligated to supply services that other shops won't, as in, choose not to? If I have five pumps on a shelf, is it my duty to dispense them equally so everyone has one, ya know, so it is fair? I do find it interesting how attitudes can be affected by the concept of supply and demand. No offence to anyone, just an observation on my part.
Fear not good people.... Dieselmeken hinted at making some MW elements.
I will put this to the forum, Regardless of if I agree to build any other pumps, do I keep posting, or close it up?
I read...skimmed....dabbled on most of what was said in the past week on this thread.
IMO just do your “thang”. F*** the haters. The effort that informed posters like yourself put in is truly respectable. Especially when you throw down numbers, answer dumb questions from people that can’t read back three posts, and continue to post results even though there is constant scrutinization, I respect it.
One thing that I suggest is to only post your results. The unknown can and will be debated until there is evidence/ a unanimous conclusion. So many questions arise when a dull moment is present. I'll say in the meantime, just keep going and we ALL look forward to what conclusions you come to on this new venture.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
09-20-2012, 10:30 PM
#105
I won't lie and say i won't run it on B100 since i am confident in the quality of my fuel and its ability to make me gobs of power given the opportunity. Plus, I'll likely buy another engine to build up without risking my very well functioning, though 260k mile engine. If you are willing to work with me then i am willing to work with you!
Secondaries
09-20-2012, 10:30 PM #105Count me in on the "still interested" side of things. If i have options (regarding dieselmeken vs OM616) then i will weigh them. If OM616 refuses to build me a pump but will still sell me something like a builder kit that i can source an installer for, i'd be happy still. Not excited about the prospect of shipping a pump overseas so it pretty much has to be local, or at least US.
I won't lie and say i won't run it on B100 since i am confident in the quality of my fuel and its ability to make me gobs of power given the opportunity. Plus, I'll likely buy another engine to build up without risking my very well functioning, though 260k mile engine. If you are willing to work with me then i am willing to work with you!
09-20-2012, 10:40 PM
#106
(09-20-2012, 08:52 PM)OM616 Thanks to everyone who “gets it”, the problem is there are just too many who don’t.
I did get a good laugh though…. “NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!
Hear hear!! Lol but anyway, 7 days a week I think about how awesome a superpump would be, so I hope it turns out great
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-20-2012, 10:40 PM #106(09-20-2012, 08:52 PM)OM616 Thanks to everyone who “gets it”, the problem is there are just too many who don’t.
I did get a good laugh though…. “NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!
Hear hear!! Lol but anyway, 7 days a week I think about how awesome a superpump would be, so I hope it turns out great
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
09-21-2012, 06:19 AM
#107
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
I vote that we buy a couple of six packs, sit out in the sun during the last days of summer and crack old farts and even older jokes.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
09-21-2012, 08:42 AM
#108
(09-21-2012, 06:19 AM)winmutt I vote that we buy a couple of six packs, sit out in the sun during the last days of summer and crack old farts and even older jokes.
That too and you got my vote !... and, I too am a capitalist ... If a "MW" mod'd pump is on the horizon, then of course post those results and promote the product. We need more COTS items for our beloved W123's -- even us cheapo's ... LOL.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(09-21-2012, 06:19 AM)winmutt I vote that we buy a couple of six packs, sit out in the sun during the last days of summer and crack old farts and even older jokes.
That too and you got my vote !... and, I too am a capitalist ... If a "MW" mod'd pump is on the horizon, then of course post those results and promote the product. We need more COTS items for our beloved W123's -- even us cheapo's ... LOL.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
09-21-2012, 03:24 PM
#109
(09-19-2012, 02:26 AM)JustPassinThru What I need to establish before I leap into a set of the 10 mm elements is, whether the nozzles recommended to go with them (the 315's) spray equally well as the 261's I have, using my fuel, and what pop pressure is ideal.Although all nozzles start all with DN0SDxxx the spray pattern is not the same. But you can assume that the spray pattern is similar between 261 and 315.
(09-20-2012, 12:10 PM)Greazzer I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming) so I will post my resuts shortly on the Phoenix Project Thread in the projects.How long did it take you to do that +/-10psi setting? Do you have an analog or digital pressure gauge?
(09-20-2012, 12:45 PM)JustPassinThru Can someone please tell me, out of what vehicle(s) (if any) I could go pull some 315 nozzles?I have looked it up. The 315 comes from an old Ford 4-cylinder engine from around 1990 which was very rare in Europe/Germany. I don´t even know if it was ever sold in the US. But nozzles pulled from a vehicle that old won´t be usable.
For the veggie oil stuff, Tomniks elements are tested and are working with veggie oil.
And a word on the fuel. Those pumps were designed for a certain fuel. I think testing should be done with "defined fuel" from the gas station like OM616 said. But veggie or WVO mixtures lubricate approximately twice as good as ULSD for example.
Gruß
Volker
This post was last modified: 09-21-2012, 03:27 PM by Volker407.
after reading the last 2 pages....
(09-19-2012, 02:26 AM)JustPassinThru What I need to establish before I leap into a set of the 10 mm elements is, whether the nozzles recommended to go with them (the 315's) spray equally well as the 261's I have, using my fuel, and what pop pressure is ideal.Although all nozzles start all with DN0SDxxx the spray pattern is not the same. But you can assume that the spray pattern is similar between 261 and 315.
(09-20-2012, 12:10 PM)Greazzer I got a set of injectors spot on at 2,000 PSI, +/- 10 PSI (very very time consuming) so I will post my resuts shortly on the Phoenix Project Thread in the projects.How long did it take you to do that +/-10psi setting? Do you have an analog or digital pressure gauge?
(09-20-2012, 12:45 PM)JustPassinThru Can someone please tell me, out of what vehicle(s) (if any) I could go pull some 315 nozzles?I have looked it up. The 315 comes from an old Ford 4-cylinder engine from around 1990 which was very rare in Europe/Germany. I don´t even know if it was ever sold in the US. But nozzles pulled from a vehicle that old won´t be usable.
For the veggie oil stuff, Tomniks elements are tested and are working with veggie oil.
And a word on the fuel. Those pumps were designed for a certain fuel. I think testing should be done with "defined fuel" from the gas station like OM616 said. But veggie or WVO mixtures lubricate approximately twice as good as ULSD for example.
Gruß
Volker
09-21-2012, 06:47 PM
#110
At this point, it will take about 5 hours vs. 1 hour for FSM specs. After a bunch of sets, I am at the end of my learning curve. I have both gauges, but only the digital gauge permits me to get it down that specific. The mechanical gauage bounces a little, et cet. Also, it is pretty rare that any injector will consistently pop at the precise, exact pressuer over and over. For example, if set at 2,000 psi, it will pop 1999, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1998, et cet., but never over 2,005 or under 1995 unless you get a weird pop which I dont count. It is pretty simple to get it down to 20-30 psi range, but after that, it takes some tinkering. It stinks when there is no shim for what you want and then you're stuck "sanding" them only to realize you sanded a hair too much. An hour per injector (that assumes already cleaned) is crazy, but it's doable.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
How long did it take you to do that +/-10psi setting? Do you have an analog or digital pressure gauge?
At this point, it will take about 5 hours vs. 1 hour for FSM specs. After a bunch of sets, I am at the end of my learning curve. I have both gauges, but only the digital gauge permits me to get it down that specific. The mechanical gauage bounces a little, et cet. Also, it is pretty rare that any injector will consistently pop at the precise, exact pressuer over and over. For example, if set at 2,000 psi, it will pop 1999, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1998, et cet., but never over 2,005 or under 1995 unless you get a weird pop which I dont count. It is pretty simple to get it down to 20-30 psi range, but after that, it takes some tinkering. It stinks when there is no shim for what you want and then you're stuck "sanding" them only to realize you sanded a hair too much. An hour per injector (that assumes already cleaned) is crazy, but it's doable.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
09-22-2012, 02:58 AM
#111
(09-21-2012, 06:47 PM)Greazzer For example, if set at 2,000 psi, it will pop 1999, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1998, et cet., but never over 2,005 or under 1995 unless you get a weird pop which I dont count.
I can confirm that, the last 10 psi can´t be set, it´s opening tolerance. But 10psi instead of 116psi (specification) isn´t bad I would say.
Gruß
Volker
(09-21-2012, 06:47 PM)Greazzer For example, if set at 2,000 psi, it will pop 1999, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1998, et cet., but never over 2,005 or under 1995 unless you get a weird pop which I dont count.
I can confirm that, the last 10 psi can´t be set, it´s opening tolerance. But 10psi instead of 116psi (specification) isn´t bad I would say.
Gruß
Volker
10-02-2012, 04:20 PM
#112
OM616 , how much boost will i need to support this pump setup .
thanks to all the contributors Fascinating , thread , once im 100% on the health of my other systems i would spend 750,1000 on a pump . or less for a kit to take to a local pump builder . i just want to be able to do doughnuts in my 300sd
OM616 , how much boost will i need to support this pump setup .
10-02-2012, 04:26 PM
#113
(10-02-2012, 04:20 PM)lpumb3 OM616 , how much boost will i need to support this pump setup .
Boost and fuel go together, if you run stock fueling, then stock boost would be fine. If you want to run 150cc/K then you will obviously need more intercooler boost.
10-02-2012, 05:19 PM
#114
Did you say , that the standard injectors elements , are between 50/65cc/k . and that you were aiming to see 90cc/k per event ? please correct me if im wrong that was a ways back into the thread . whats the end goal HP/tq of this element,dv,nozzle combo ? i feel like you stated that the delivery event was what the goal was here not overall volume fuel. but how quickly your delivering it . if i wanted to run this pump on a daily what sacrifices will i have to make ? would i be driving a sled puller or something oi can still get good hwy mpgs in ?
10-02-2012, 05:47 PM
#115
(10-02-2012, 05:19 PM)lpumb3 Did you say , that the standard injectors elements , are between 50/65cc/k . and that you were aiming to see 90cc/k per event ? please correct me if im wrong that was a ways back into the thread . whats the end goal HP/tq of this element,dv,nozzle combo ? i feel like you stated that the delivery event was what the goal was here not overall volume fuel. but how quickly your delivering it . if i wanted to run this pump on a daily what sacrifices will i have to make ? would i be driving a sled puller or something oi can still get good hwy mpgs in ?
As I recall the 5.5mm elements put out in the 50/65cc/K range, probably could get more but end of delivery starts getting really late. I have not spent much time with the stock elements on the calibration machine as I am interested in larger elements.
As for my goals?... My intention is to build “myself” a pump that has the shortest delivery duration possible with off the shelf parts. “My” pump will be going on a turbocharged 616 driver / highway car, so I am more interested in mileage than power, as I can brake the clutch free now.
However, the elements I am using are capable of delivering enough fuel to blow up a 61X if one wanted to go crazy. The drivability can be massaged with the proper delivery valve, Nozzle, and ALDA setting. It remains to be seen if the governor adjustments will be simple enough that anyone can achieve a pump with excellent drivability characteristics.
Regarding your sacrifices, yes, you will have to sacrifice some cash, and time fine tuning.
If you want a sled puller that can be arranged too, lol
(10-02-2012, 05:19 PM)lpumb3 Did you say , that the standard injectors elements , are between 50/65cc/k . and that you were aiming to see 90cc/k per event ? please correct me if im wrong that was a ways back into the thread . whats the end goal HP/tq of this element,dv,nozzle combo ? i feel like you stated that the delivery event was what the goal was here not overall volume fuel. but how quickly your delivering it . if i wanted to run this pump on a daily what sacrifices will i have to make ? would i be driving a sled puller or something oi can still get good hwy mpgs in ?
As I recall the 5.5mm elements put out in the 50/65cc/K range, probably could get more but end of delivery starts getting really late. I have not spent much time with the stock elements on the calibration machine as I am interested in larger elements.
As for my goals?... My intention is to build “myself” a pump that has the shortest delivery duration possible with off the shelf parts. “My” pump will be going on a turbocharged 616 driver / highway car, so I am more interested in mileage than power, as I can brake the clutch free now.
However, the elements I am using are capable of delivering enough fuel to blow up a 61X if one wanted to go crazy. The drivability can be massaged with the proper delivery valve, Nozzle, and ALDA setting. It remains to be seen if the governor adjustments will be simple enough that anyone can achieve a pump with excellent drivability characteristics.
Regarding your sacrifices, yes, you will have to sacrifice some cash, and time fine tuning.
If you want a sled puller that can be arranged too, lol
10-03-2012, 11:00 AM
#116
im still with a bone stock 300sd. mu plans are more mild .(till i get a donor motor ) 60trim upgrade , intercooler ,2.5 exhaust ,egr delete ,port match everything, better nozzles(would like the best )turn up the boost a little, fine tune the tranny , adjust/upgrade the pump . thats kinda phase one not including all maint filters leaks etc. my end goal is 250 or so hp and buku torque i will be using this as my driver for now.
will the pump your building be suitable for this level tune or , do you have some thing more mild youve already built ? should i pm you so as not to divert the thread from 10mm discussion with that said , where will the possiblity of to much fuel come into play . is that where the pump tuning can fine tune the volume being delivered or is that the nozzle/dv/elements cohesive job ?
as far as a sled puller ,not yet
, but down the road im sure ill be in need for a rat project . thanks again for all you r input , and i hope the questions aren't simple ?
im just trying to grasp the operation of the pump and its balance between elements dvs lines injectors etc.
This post was last modified: 10-03-2012, 11:02 AM by lpumb3.
thanks Om616 , thanks again for you help. i understand your building this pump for your use , and the sport . i see under stand why you want the shorter delivery duration , and im starting to understand why . this is my interest as well economy , and a little fun . it sounds like your car is already a beast.
im still with a bone stock 300sd. mu plans are more mild .(till i get a donor motor ) 60trim upgrade , intercooler ,2.5 exhaust ,egr delete ,port match everything, better nozzles(would like the best )turn up the boost a little, fine tune the tranny , adjust/upgrade the pump . thats kinda phase one not including all maint filters leaks etc. my end goal is 250 or so hp and buku torque i will be using this as my driver for now.
will the pump your building be suitable for this level tune or , do you have some thing more mild youve already built ? should i pm you so as not to divert the thread from 10mm discussion with that said , where will the possiblity of to much fuel come into play . is that where the pump tuning can fine tune the volume being delivered or is that the nozzle/dv/elements cohesive job ?
as far as a sled puller ,not yet , but down the road im sure ill be in need for a rat project .
thanks again for all you r input , and i hope the questions aren't simple ?
im just trying to grasp the operation of the pump and its balance between elements dvs lines injectors etc.
10-03-2012, 05:48 PM
#117
(10-03-2012, 11:00 AM)lpumb3 will the pump your building be suitable for this level tune or , do you have some thing more mild youve already built ? should i pm you so as not to divert the thread from 10mm discussion with that said , where will the possiblity of to much fuel come into play . is that where the pump tuning can fine tune the volume being delivered or is that the nozzle/dv/elements cohesive job ?
im just trying to grasp the operation of the pump and its balance between elements dvs lines injectors etc.
In reality, to go into the details of how I will go about making the pump put out more or less fuel, and the combination of parts will only confuse everyone but a select few. It has taken me a few years of pondering bits and pieces of information, coming to incorrect conclusions, and only recently having an epiphany after a great conversation with a new friend.
As a wise member previously posted, it is probably best to limit discussions such as this as it will only spool things back up.
The best way is to let the results speak for them selves.
I know you want to learn, but the timing is not good right now, plus some of the information I want to keep to myself.
Does that make sense?
(10-03-2012, 11:00 AM)lpumb3 will the pump your building be suitable for this level tune or , do you have some thing more mild youve already built ? should i pm you so as not to divert the thread from 10mm discussion with that said , where will the possiblity of to much fuel come into play . is that where the pump tuning can fine tune the volume being delivered or is that the nozzle/dv/elements cohesive job ?
im just trying to grasp the operation of the pump and its balance between elements dvs lines injectors etc.
In reality, to go into the details of how I will go about making the pump put out more or less fuel, and the combination of parts will only confuse everyone but a select few. It has taken me a few years of pondering bits and pieces of information, coming to incorrect conclusions, and only recently having an epiphany after a great conversation with a new friend.
As a wise member previously posted, it is probably best to limit discussions such as this as it will only spool things back up.
The best way is to let the results speak for them selves.
I know you want to learn, but the timing is not good right now, plus some of the information I want to keep to myself.
Does that make sense?
10-04-2012, 01:03 PM
#118
ill wait to see the results
what your up to is getting epic so i cant wait to see. any advice on finding the more basic info im after as far as these pumps go ? does any one have any cutaways running ?
i will now stalk this thread silently . thanks again
This post was last modified: 10-04-2012, 01:04 PM by lpumb3.
i understand OM616 , its a rather broad question hun . im not trying to pry oi suppose to much into the recipe you have there , i guess im trying to get a better grasp on the way the pump is working . and the balance of waht your doing ?
ill wait to see the results what your up to is getting epic so i cant wait to see.
any advice on finding the more basic info im after as far as these pumps go ? does any one have any cutaways running ?
i will now stalk this thread silently . thanks again
10-04-2012, 02:30 PM
#119
(10-04-2012, 01:03 PM)lpumb3 i understand OM616 , its a rather broad question hun . im not trying to pry oi suppose to much into the recipe you have there , i guess im trying to get a better grasp on the way the pump is working . and the balance of waht your doing ?
ill wait to see the results
any advice on finding the more basic info im after as far as these pumps go ? does any one have any cutaways running ?
i will now stalk this thread silently . thanks again
Please do not hesitate to post questions you may have, others may be inclined to answer if possible.
There are very few people who actually have a solid grasp on how the pump really works and how to control it. 90% of the pump shops do not really know how it works, that knowledge is not needed to repair it, but to start adjusting things outside of the specks, and swapping parts requires a good understanding of how each part does what it does, and that is where the arguing starts, lol
Here are some pump pics I have found over the years on various forums and research.
This post was last modified: 10-04-2012, 02:31 PM by OM616.
Attached Files
Image(s)(10-04-2012, 01:03 PM)lpumb3 i understand OM616 , its a rather broad question hun . im not trying to pry oi suppose to much into the recipe you have there , i guess im trying to get a better grasp on the way the pump is working . and the balance of waht your doing ?
ill wait to see the results
any advice on finding the more basic info im after as far as these pumps go ? does any one have any cutaways running ?
i will now stalk this thread silently . thanks again
Please do not hesitate to post questions you may have, others may be inclined to answer if possible.
There are very few people who actually have a solid grasp on how the pump really works and how to control it. 90% of the pump shops do not really know how it works, that knowledge is not needed to repair it, but to start adjusting things outside of the specks, and swapping parts requires a good understanding of how each part does what it does, and that is where the arguing starts, lol
Here are some pump pics I have found over the years on various forums and research.
Attached Files
Image(s)
10-04-2012, 03:59 PM
#120
![[Image: Bosch%20Inline%20pump%20diagram.JPG]](http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/MB%20Repairs/OM603%20injection%20pump/Bosch%20Inline%20pump%20diagram.JPG)
This post was last modified: 10-04-2012, 03:59 PM by raysorenson.
10-04-2012, 04:37 PM
#121
thanks again
thanks for the pics OM616 ,RAYs , i like the second one showing the the cycl helps grasp the cut aways . looking at the helix's , makes me think it needs to rotate instead of passing ports back and fourth . ill be doing more research and reading . getting sucked furthur in
thanks again
10-04-2012, 05:39 PM
#122
Here is a link to Bosch's MW-Pump Pre-Tech Service Training doc.
.
This post was last modified: 10-04-2012, 05:55 PM by DeliveryValve.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
10-04-2012, 05:39 PM #122Here is another picture that may help and I got these specs that I scanned into a .pdf format from from my local Diesel Fuel Injection shop.
Here is a link to Bosch's MW-Pump Pre-Tech Service Training doc.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
lowlf13
Unregistered
10-06-2012, 03:30 AM
#124
i've noticed that you haven't been mentioning the "M" pump as much in the later posts as you have the "MW" pump.
would the price and mechanical work listed previously be similar? and would you do both pumps or just one style?
and will your pump have a "hp rating" that YOU are hoping to achieve? i understand you're more for fuel mileage, but i'm sure you can throw an estimated figure out there.
and lastly is not a question, but a thanks.
thank you for your efforts, patience, knowledge and willingness to help. i hope all goes well in your continued research and ends with people like myself on a budget (thanks to the GF), to be able to have the tuned pump they want.
cody.
lowlf13
10-06-2012, 03:30 AM #124first time posting, so i hope i don't sound like a huge noob. but i do have a couple questions.
i've noticed that you haven't been mentioning the "M" pump as much in the later posts as you have the "MW" pump.
would the price and mechanical work listed previously be similar? and would you do both pumps or just one style?
and will your pump have a "hp rating" that YOU are hoping to achieve? i understand you're more for fuel mileage, but i'm sure you can throw an estimated figure out there.
and lastly is not a question, but a thanks.
thank you for your efforts, patience, knowledge and willingness to help. i hope all goes well in your continued research and ends with people like myself on a budget (thanks to the GF), to be able to have the tuned pump they want.
cody.
10-07-2012, 10:13 AM
#125
(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 i've noticed that you haven't been mentioning the "M" pump as much in the later posts as you have the "MW" pump.
would the price and mechanical work listed previously be similar? and would you do both pumps or just one style?
The parts of the M pump are not as common as the MW ones are, and as a result, they are harder to get and are more expensive.
As I am in the USA, my primary focus is on the MW as that is what we have, and no one really has done anything with them. The Europeans race the cars over there and they have M pumps, so that is why there is hot rod parts for them.
Personally I prefer the design of the MW / RW combination, and at present it is my primary interest. But..... I have had a thought to build a Mega-M-Pump for grins.
There are two members on this forum who are experts in building M pumps, so the shortage of available talent is not like it is with the MW. My first recommendation would be to contact members PP D and Dieselmeken, they both have their own threads for M pumps.
(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 and will your pump have a "hp rating" that YOU are hoping to achieve? i understand you're more for fuel mileage, but i'm sure you can throw an estimated figure out there.
LOL..... I love this question.... let me put it this way... I am not going to put my car on a dyno and run the piss out of it, so... any number I would give would only start an argument about it not being backed up and such...
I could also just through out some delivery quantities, but again the argument would be about fuel control and drivability...
I have learned not to post any numbers.. sorry, these threads can get bogged down by arguments very quickly.
If you have an application that you are shopping for, we can talk privately about it.
(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 i've noticed that you haven't been mentioning the "M" pump as much in the later posts as you have the "MW" pump.
would the price and mechanical work listed previously be similar? and would you do both pumps or just one style?
The parts of the M pump are not as common as the MW ones are, and as a result, they are harder to get and are more expensive.
As I am in the USA, my primary focus is on the MW as that is what we have, and no one really has done anything with them. The Europeans race the cars over there and they have M pumps, so that is why there is hot rod parts for them.
Personally I prefer the design of the MW / RW combination, and at present it is my primary interest. But..... I have had a thought to build a Mega-M-Pump for grins.
There are two members on this forum who are experts in building M pumps, so the shortage of available talent is not like it is with the MW. My first recommendation would be to contact members PP D and Dieselmeken, they both have their own threads for M pumps.
(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 and will your pump have a "hp rating" that YOU are hoping to achieve? i understand you're more for fuel mileage, but i'm sure you can throw an estimated figure out there.
LOL..... I love this question.... let me put it this way... I am not going to put my car on a dyno and run the piss out of it, so... any number I would give would only start an argument about it not being backed up and such...
I could also just through out some delivery quantities, but again the argument would be about fuel control and drivability...
I have learned not to post any numbers.. sorry, these threads can get bogged down by arguments very quickly.
If you have an application that you are shopping for, we can talk privately about it.
10-07-2012, 06:52 PM
#126
Bosch 5.5mm vs Chinahanji 10mm pictures.
Attached Files
Image(s)Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
10-07-2012, 06:52 PM #126Wow to see it in person, these MW 10mm plungers and barrels are huge compared to the 5.5mm P's and B's.
Bosch 5.5mm vs Chinahanji 10mm pictures.
Attached Files
Image(s)Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
10-28-2012, 10:53 AM
#129
(10-07-2012, 10:13 AM)OM616(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 i've noticed that you haven't been mentioning the "M" pump as much in the later posts as you have the "MW" pump.
would the price and mechanical work listed previously be similar? and would you do both pumps or just one style?
The parts of the M pump are not as common as the MW ones are, and as a result, they are harder to get and are more expensive.
As I am in the USA, my primary focus is on the MW as that is what we have, and no one really has done anything with them. The Europeans race the cars over there and they have M pumps, so that is why there is hot rod parts for them.
Personally I prefer the design of the MW / RW combination, and at present it is my primary interest. But..... I have had a thought to build a Mega-M-Pump for grins.
There are two members on this forum who are experts in building M pumps, so the shortage of available talent is not like it is with the MW. My first recommendation would be to contact members PP D and Dieselmeken, they both have their own threads for M pumps.
(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 and will your pump have a "hp rating" that YOU are hoping to achieve? i understand you're more for fuel mileage, but i'm sure you can throw an estimated figure out there.
LOL..... I love this question.... let me put it this way... I am not going to put my car on a dyno and run the piss out of it, so... any number I would give would only start an argument about it not being backed up and such...
I could also just through out some delivery quantities, but again the argument would be about fuel control and drivability...
I have learned not to post any numbers.. sorry, these threads can get bogged down by arguments very quickly.
If you have an application that you are shopping for, we can talk privately about it.
So Why not just build a bad ass MW? Let's get some like-minded members together to collaborate on a bulletproof design. Let's work it out to where it is a bolt-on w/ adequate turbo match to make a very impressive affordable result. Let's package these and sell them to all who want them. Why do we have to do it the way they they do it in Europe?! Why not work with what we have? Let's not forget that none of us are of the chevy 350 run of the mill hot rod crowd, we are odd ball diesel 5 cyl weirdos, we're supposed to do things differently. The turbos can be gone through cheaply as they are common as are the pumps. Swapping out these two with a few other mods might encourage more to see our perspective and encourage more bolt on performance alternatives to the OM616/617.
Austincarnut
10-28-2012, 10:53 AM #129(10-07-2012, 10:13 AM)OM616(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 i've noticed that you haven't been mentioning the "M" pump as much in the later posts as you have the "MW" pump.
would the price and mechanical work listed previously be similar? and would you do both pumps or just one style?
The parts of the M pump are not as common as the MW ones are, and as a result, they are harder to get and are more expensive.
As I am in the USA, my primary focus is on the MW as that is what we have, and no one really has done anything with them. The Europeans race the cars over there and they have M pumps, so that is why there is hot rod parts for them.
Personally I prefer the design of the MW / RW combination, and at present it is my primary interest. But..... I have had a thought to build a Mega-M-Pump for grins.
There are two members on this forum who are experts in building M pumps, so the shortage of available talent is not like it is with the MW. My first recommendation would be to contact members PP D and Dieselmeken, they both have their own threads for M pumps.
(10-06-2012, 03:30 AM)lowlf13 and will your pump have a "hp rating" that YOU are hoping to achieve? i understand you're more for fuel mileage, but i'm sure you can throw an estimated figure out there.
LOL..... I love this question.... let me put it this way... I am not going to put my car on a dyno and run the piss out of it, so... any number I would give would only start an argument about it not being backed up and such...
I could also just through out some delivery quantities, but again the argument would be about fuel control and drivability...
I have learned not to post any numbers.. sorry, these threads can get bogged down by arguments very quickly.
If you have an application that you are shopping for, we can talk privately about it.
So Why not just build a bad ass MW? Let's get some like-minded members together to collaborate on a bulletproof design. Let's work it out to where it is a bolt-on w/ adequate turbo match to make a very impressive affordable result. Let's package these and sell them to all who want them. Why do we have to do it the way they they do it in Europe?! Why not work with what we have? Let's not forget that none of us are of the chevy 350 run of the mill hot rod crowd, we are odd ball diesel 5 cyl weirdos, we're supposed to do things differently. The turbos can be gone through cheaply as they are common as are the pumps. Swapping out these two with a few other mods might encourage more to see our perspective and encourage more bolt on performance alternatives to the OM616/617.
10-28-2012, 03:00 PM
#130
(10-28-2012, 10:53 AM)Austincarnut So Why not just build a bad ass MW? Let's get some like-minded members together to collaborate on a bulletproof design. Let's work it out to where it is a bolt-on w/ adequate turbo match to make a very impressive affordable result. Let's package these and sell them to all who want them. Why do we have to do it the way they they do it in Europe?! Why not work with what we have? Let's not forget that none of us are of the chevy 350 run of the mill hot rod crowd, we are odd ball diesel 5 cyl weirdos, we're supposed to do things differently. The turbos can be gone through cheaply as they are common as are the pumps. Swapping out these two with a few other mods might encourage more to see our perspective and encourage more bolt on performance alternatives to the OM616/617.
I see a lot of "we" and "Let's" in your post, lol.
This post was last modified: 10-28-2012, 03:01 PM by OM616.
(10-28-2012, 10:53 AM)Austincarnut So Why not just build a bad ass MW? Let's get some like-minded members together to collaborate on a bulletproof design. Let's work it out to where it is a bolt-on w/ adequate turbo match to make a very impressive affordable result. Let's package these and sell them to all who want them. Why do we have to do it the way they they do it in Europe?! Why not work with what we have? Let's not forget that none of us are of the chevy 350 run of the mill hot rod crowd, we are odd ball diesel 5 cyl weirdos, we're supposed to do things differently. The turbos can be gone through cheaply as they are common as are the pumps. Swapping out these two with a few other mods might encourage more to see our perspective and encourage more bolt on performance alternatives to the OM616/617.
I see a lot of "we" and "Let's" in your post, lol.
10-28-2012, 03:10 PM
#131
i will be looking for a pump tuner for the final calibrations .............
hi there , i know i said id stalk silently but..... can any body gey me the 60mm elements and dv for my pump ?as well as slightly larger injectors , or point me in the right direction . planning 60 trim upgrade for the turbo and as i replace gaskets , port matching as much as i can . when the head comes off more head work.
i will be looking for a pump tuner for the final calibrations .............
10-29-2012, 12:40 AM
#132
(10-27-2012, 11:24 AM)lpumb3(10-07-2012, 06:52 PM)DeliveryValve Wow to see it in person, these MW 10mm plungers and barrels are huge compared to the 5.5mm P's and B's.
Bosch 5.5mm vs Chinahanji 10mm pictures.
Hi Dv , question , can you locate the 6.0mm dv,elements ?
Sorry I don't have that information. I don't even have a part number for 6mm MW elements. But we all would love to know!
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
10-29-2012, 12:40 AM #132(10-27-2012, 11:24 AM)lpumb3(10-07-2012, 06:52 PM)DeliveryValve Wow to see it in person, these MW 10mm plungers and barrels are huge compared to the 5.5mm P's and B's.
Bosch 5.5mm vs Chinahanji 10mm pictures.
Hi Dv , question , can you locate the 6.0mm dv,elements ?
Sorry I don't have that information. I don't even have a part number for 6mm MW elements. But we all would love to know!
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
10-29-2012, 12:33 PM
#133
(10-28-2012, 03:10 PM)lpumb3 hi there , i know i said id stalk silently but..... can any body gey me the 60mm elements and dv for my pump ?as well as slightly larger injectors , or point me in the right direction . planning 60 trim upgrade for the turbo and as i replace gaskets , port matching as much as i can . when the head comes off more head work.
i will be looking for a pump tuner for the final calibrations .............
The Bosch Part # I have for the 6mm M Pump element is 1 418 305 554, but I am not 100% on its validity.
If you are trying to get parts in the USA, go to a Bosch pump shop and tell them you want to get elements for a Bosch pump, # PES 4 M 60 C 320 RS 205 and see if they can get them. They will not be cheap.
I think your best bang for your buck it to contact PP D and have him install some 8.5mm elements (Super Floyd). I am pretty sure that they will not just sell you the elements though.
The next biggest size is Dieselmeken's @ 7.5mm, but again, I do not think he will sell just the elements.
Someone found this sight a while ago that is selling 7mm M pump elements, http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info....ts_id=3271
(10-28-2012, 03:10 PM)lpumb3 hi there , i know i said id stalk silently but..... can any body gey me the 60mm elements and dv for my pump ?as well as slightly larger injectors , or point me in the right direction . planning 60 trim upgrade for the turbo and as i replace gaskets , port matching as much as i can . when the head comes off more head work.
i will be looking for a pump tuner for the final calibrations .............
The Bosch Part # I have for the 6mm M Pump element is 1 418 305 554, but I am not 100% on its validity.
If you are trying to get parts in the USA, go to a Bosch pump shop and tell them you want to get elements for a Bosch pump, # PES 4 M 60 C 320 RS 205 and see if they can get them. They will not be cheap.
I think your best bang for your buck it to contact PP D and have him install some 8.5mm elements (Super Floyd). I am pretty sure that they will not just sell you the elements though.
The next biggest size is Dieselmeken's @ 7.5mm, but again, I do not think he will sell just the elements.
Someone found this sight a while ago that is selling 7mm M pump elements, http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info....ts_id=3271
10-31-2012, 10:32 AM
#134
0 434 250 176 DN0SD314 MERCEDES-BENZ OM602.962 Would this be a larger cc injector ? im assuming the last 3#s are displacement designations?
This post was last modified: 10-31-2012, 10:48 AM by lpumb3.
thanks again OM, DV . i went to that site link and found injectors ,DN0SD126, MWM , am i in the right part numbers group? visually they seem the to be correct so i sent an email to seek more info .hmmm the element # is there a stamping code ?
0 434 250 176 DN0SD314 MERCEDES-BENZ OM602.962 Would this be a larger cc injector ? im assuming the last 3#s are displacement designations?
10-31-2012, 11:06 AM
#135
(10-31-2012, 10:32 AM)lpumb3 ....DN0SD314 MERCEDES-BENZ OM602.962 Would this be a larger cc injector ? im assuming the last 3#s are displacement designations?
the last 3 #s never tell anything about the nozzle. They are just random code #s
Gruß
Volker
10-31-2012, 08:34 PM
#136
(10-28-2012, 03:00 PM)OM616(10-28-2012, 10:53 AM)Austincarnut So Why not just build a bad ass MW? Let's get some like-minded members together to collaborate on a bulletproof design. Let's work it out to where it is a bolt-on w/ adequate turbo match to make a very impressive affordable result. Let's package these and sell them to all who want them. Why do we have to do it the way they they do it in Europe?! Why not work with what we have? Let's not forget that none of us are of the chevy 350 run of the mill hot rod crowd, we are odd ball diesel 5 cyl weirdos, we're supposed to do things differently. The turbos can be gone through cheaply as they are common as are the pumps. Swapping out these two with a few other mods might encourage more to see our perspective and encourage more bolt on performance alternatives to the OM616/617.
I see a lot of "we" and "Let's" in your post, lol.
This post was last modified: 10-31-2012, 08:36 PM by Austincarnut.
Austincarnut
10-31-2012, 08:34 PM #136HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
(10-28-2012, 03:00 PM)OM616(10-28-2012, 10:53 AM)Austincarnut So Why not just build a bad ass MW? Let's get some like-minded members together to collaborate on a bulletproof design. Let's work it out to where it is a bolt-on w/ adequate turbo match to make a very impressive affordable result. Let's package these and sell them to all who want them. Why do we have to do it the way they they do it in Europe?! Why not work with what we have? Let's not forget that none of us are of the chevy 350 run of the mill hot rod crowd, we are odd ball diesel 5 cyl weirdos, we're supposed to do things differently. The turbos can be gone through cheaply as they are common as are the pumps. Swapping out these two with a few other mods might encourage more to see our perspective and encourage more bolt on performance alternatives to the OM616/617.
I see a lot of "we" and "Let's" in your post, lol.
11-01-2012, 12:04 PM
#137
(10-31-2012, 11:06 AM)Volker407got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .(10-31-2012, 10:32 AM)lpumb3 ....DN0SD314 MERCEDES-BENZ OM602.962 Would this be a larger cc injector ? im assuming the last 3#s are displacement designations?
the last 3 #s never tell anything about the nozzle. They are just random code #s
Gruß
Volker
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
This post was last modified: 11-01-2012, 12:10 PM by lpumb3.
(10-31-2012, 11:06 AM)Volker407got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .(10-31-2012, 10:32 AM)lpumb3 ....DN0SD314 MERCEDES-BENZ OM602.962 Would this be a larger cc injector ? im assuming the last 3#s are displacement designations?
the last 3 #s never tell anything about the nozzle. They are just random code #s
Gruß
Volker
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
11-01-2012, 04:30 PM
#138
(11-01-2012, 12:04 PM)lpumb3 got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
I received some Bosio 315 nozzles last month.
(10-31-2012, 08:34 PM)Austincarnut HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
I have spent a couple of years researching and making contacts / Friends with technical experience for my MW pump build project. I have learned a lot!!
I am almost done collecting the parts to build a calibration machine, and when it is built, I will be installing the lager elements and other parts to make a MW super pump.
I am looking at the timing advance mechanism right now. I want to recurve it to better match the larger elements and gain more power with a quiet idle.
I owe thanks to many members on a both forums for my progress.
This post was last modified: 11-06-2012, 01:18 PM by OM616.
(11-01-2012, 12:04 PM)lpumb3 got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
I received some Bosio 315 nozzles last month.
(10-31-2012, 08:34 PM)Austincarnut HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
I have spent a couple of years researching and making contacts / Friends with technical experience for my MW pump build project. I have learned a lot!!
I am almost done collecting the parts to build a calibration machine, and when it is built, I will be installing the lager elements and other parts to make a MW super pump.
I am looking at the timing advance mechanism right now. I want to recurve it to better match the larger elements and gain more power with a quiet idle.
I owe thanks to many members on a both forums for my progress.
11-01-2012, 06:03 PM
#139
(11-01-2012, 04:30 PM)OM616(11-01-2012, 12:04 PM)lpumb3 got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
I received some Bosio 314 nozzles last month.
(10-31-2012, 08:34 PM)Austincarnut HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
I have spent a couple of years researching and making contacts / Friends with technical experience for my MW pump build project. I have learned a lot!!
I am almost done collecting the parts to build a calibration machine, and when it is built, I will be installing the lager elements and other parts to make a MW super pump.
I am looking at the timing advance mechanism right now. I want to recurve it to better match the larger elements and gain more power with a quiet idle.
I owe thanks to many members on a both forums for my progress.
The forum owes MANY thanks to YOU & others for expading the knowledgebase of the IP's on the Mercs !!!
yankneck696
11-01-2012, 06:03 PM #139(11-01-2012, 04:30 PM)OM616(11-01-2012, 12:04 PM)lpumb3 got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
I received some Bosio 314 nozzles last month.
(10-31-2012, 08:34 PM)Austincarnut HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
I have spent a couple of years researching and making contacts / Friends with technical experience for my MW pump build project. I have learned a lot!!
I am almost done collecting the parts to build a calibration machine, and when it is built, I will be installing the lager elements and other parts to make a MW super pump.
I am looking at the timing advance mechanism right now. I want to recurve it to better match the larger elements and gain more power with a quiet idle.
I owe thanks to many members on a both forums for my progress.
The forum owes MANY thanks to YOU & others for expading the knowledgebase of the IP's on the Mercs !!!
11-01-2012, 08:10 PM
#140
(11-01-2012, 04:30 PM)OM616(11-01-2012, 12:04 PM)lpumb3 got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
I received some Bosio 314 nozzles last month.
(10-31-2012, 08:34 PM)Austincarnut HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
I have spent a couple of years researching and making contacts / Friends with technical experience for my MW pump build project. I have learned a lot!!
I am almost done collecting the parts to build a calibration machine, and when it is built, I will be installing the lager elements and other parts to make a MW super pump.
I am looking at the timing advance mechanism right now. I want to recurve it to better match the larger elements and gain more power with a quiet idle.
I owe thanks to many members on a both forums for my progress.
By timing advance mechanism, are you referring to the intermediate gear assembly that hangs in front of the pump? There are several super-cessions in the progression of these engines. I've seen people mod these to change the curve on a slightly turned up pump. I went through a fiasco trying to match up one of these for a 616 I bought that had a broken timing chain. The gear was destroyed so I bought a replacement that was much older, then found out it wouldn't work. Anyway I realized how many different intermediate versions were made and how they match/affect performance output.... The mods made were crude and primitive but were a stretch in the right direction. Why stop there, why not build an adjustable unit?
Austincarnut
11-01-2012, 08:10 PM #140(11-01-2012, 04:30 PM)OM616(11-01-2012, 12:04 PM)lpumb3 got it , i was talking to a bosio supplier and he told me he can gat met the slighly larger cc injectors .
so with the help of OM, and DV , i was able to find a fguy ! , for elements and nozzles . larger displacement bosios , and 7mm elements in two finish types , on for sustained revs in 4.5-5k range , and the lesser finish those not ice racing i suppose .
I received some Bosio 314 nozzles last month.
(10-31-2012, 08:34 PM)Austincarnut HA!, What I meant by all of that 'we and let's' was as a superturbo diesel nerd community, we should all collaborate. Those of us who have access, knowledge and experience w/ the right way to do things are invaluable to someone looking for answers or services.
I have spent a couple of years researching and making contacts / Friends with technical experience for my MW pump build project. I have learned a lot!!
I am almost done collecting the parts to build a calibration machine, and when it is built, I will be installing the lager elements and other parts to make a MW super pump.
I am looking at the timing advance mechanism right now. I want to recurve it to better match the larger elements and gain more power with a quiet idle.
I owe thanks to many members on a both forums for my progress.
By timing advance mechanism, are you referring to the intermediate gear assembly that hangs in front of the pump? There are several super-cessions in the progression of these engines. I've seen people mod these to change the curve on a slightly turned up pump. I went through a fiasco trying to match up one of these for a 616 I bought that had a broken timing chain. The gear was destroyed so I bought a replacement that was much older, then found out it wouldn't work. Anyway I realized how many different intermediate versions were made and how they match/affect performance output.... The mods made were crude and primitive but were a stretch in the right direction. Why stop there, why not build an adjustable unit?
11-02-2012, 12:27 PM
#141
(11-01-2012, 08:10 PM)Austincarnut By timing advance mechanism, are you referring to the intermediate gear assembly that hangs in front of the pump? There are several super-cessions in the progression of these engines. I've seen people mod these to change the curve on a slightly turned up pump. I went through a fiasco trying to match up one of these for a 616 I bought that had a broken timing chain. The gear was destroyed so I bought a replacement that was much older, then found out it wouldn't work. Anyway I realized how many different intermediate versions were made and how they match/affect performance output.... The mods made were crude and primitive but were a stretch in the right direction. Why stop there, why not build an adjustable unit?
I want to get a little more advance on the top, but the main thing I want to do is to get it to come in quicker so at start and idle it is 21/22 degrees ish, and at say 1,500 RPM it will be at 24 ish and by 3000 RPM all the way in at 30/32 ish degrees.
I am designing the calibration machine so I can put the advance mechanism in between the pump and the drive so I can see the rate of advance with a timing light, just like a distributor machine..
(11-01-2012, 08:10 PM)Austincarnut By timing advance mechanism, are you referring to the intermediate gear assembly that hangs in front of the pump? There are several super-cessions in the progression of these engines. I've seen people mod these to change the curve on a slightly turned up pump. I went through a fiasco trying to match up one of these for a 616 I bought that had a broken timing chain. The gear was destroyed so I bought a replacement that was much older, then found out it wouldn't work. Anyway I realized how many different intermediate versions were made and how they match/affect performance output.... The mods made were crude and primitive but were a stretch in the right direction. Why stop there, why not build an adjustable unit?
I want to get a little more advance on the top, but the main thing I want to do is to get it to come in quicker so at start and idle it is 21/22 degrees ish, and at say 1,500 RPM it will be at 24 ish and by 3000 RPM all the way in at 30/32 ish degrees.
I am designing the calibration machine so I can put the advance mechanism in between the pump and the drive so I can see the rate of advance with a timing light, just like a distributor machine..
11-19-2012, 11:14 AM
#142
There may be some hope on the 8mm MW element front for those who have to have them. I have been talking with a supplier for a couple of weeks, and I am not 100% confident yet that he has some in stock, or if they are the thin type. It took a long time for him to understand what I wanted and that what he was originally trying to sell me was not right.
He said he went through his inventory and found some of the 058 elements, (8mm), but I asked him to clarify that they were the "thin" type and how many did he have.
I am curious to see what he comes back with. I am not holding my breath though lol.
My master injectors and stroke counter came in the other day. Still need the Motor speed controller.
There may be some hope on the 8mm MW element front for those who have to have them. I have been talking with a supplier for a couple of weeks, and I am not 100% confident yet that he has some in stock, or if they are the thin type. It took a long time for him to understand what I wanted and that what he was originally trying to sell me was not right.
He said he went through his inventory and found some of the 058 elements, (8mm), but I asked him to clarify that they were the "thin" type and how many did he have.
I am curious to see what he comes back with. I am not holding my breath though lol.
11-19-2012, 03:22 PM
#143
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
11-19-2012, 03:22 PM #143I'm still holding out for a 10mm MW, although I do have 3 other project cars starting to catch my attention lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
11-19-2012, 03:38 PM
#144
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
OM616, have you built a drivable MW with 6mm for the 617? I may have a need for your services soon if you have.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
11-19-2012, 05:05 PM
#145
(11-19-2012, 03:38 PM)300SD81 OM616, have you built a drivable MW with 6mm for the 617? I may have a need for your services soon if you have.
Tomnik was the only one that made 6mm elements for the MW pump and I never acquired any from him.
6mm is so close to 5.5mm that I would not hesitate to have any reputable pump shop install them. They will be able to set it up to stock out put specks with out too much trouble, then you can turn it up as you like.
________________
IMOP, if you are going to go big, you might as well go 10mm and be done with it. With the correct parts and settings, they can be made to put out less than stock, lol. But... to do that, you need to know what parts to use and how to set it up.
(11-19-2012, 03:38 PM)300SD81 OM616, have you built a drivable MW with 6mm for the 617? I may have a need for your services soon if you have.
Tomnik was the only one that made 6mm elements for the MW pump and I never acquired any from him.
6mm is so close to 5.5mm that I would not hesitate to have any reputable pump shop install them. They will be able to set it up to stock out put specks with out too much trouble, then you can turn it up as you like.
________________
IMOP, if you are going to go big, you might as well go 10mm and be done with it. With the correct parts and settings, they can be made to put out less than stock, lol. But... to do that, you need to know what parts to use and how to set it up.
11-19-2012, 05:27 PM
#146
(11-19-2012, 05:05 PM)OM616(11-19-2012, 03:38 PM)300SD81 OM616, have you built a drivable MW with 6mm for the 617? I may have a need for your services soon if you have.
Tomnik was the only one that made 6mm elements for the MW pump and I never acquired any from him.
6mm is so close to 5.5mm that I would not hesitate to have any reputable pump shop install them. They will be able to set it up to stock out put specks with out too much trouble, then you can turn it up as you like.
________________
IMOP, if you are going to go big, you might as well go 10mm and be done with it. With the correct parts and settings, they can be made to put out less than stock, lol. But... to do that, you need to know what parts to use and how to set it up.
oops, that was a typo, don't know where I got 6 from! I meant 10mm elements.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(11-19-2012, 05:05 PM)OM616(11-19-2012, 03:38 PM)300SD81 OM616, have you built a drivable MW with 6mm for the 617? I may have a need for your services soon if you have.
Tomnik was the only one that made 6mm elements for the MW pump and I never acquired any from him.
6mm is so close to 5.5mm that I would not hesitate to have any reputable pump shop install them. They will be able to set it up to stock out put specks with out too much trouble, then you can turn it up as you like.
________________
IMOP, if you are going to go big, you might as well go 10mm and be done with it. With the correct parts and settings, they can be made to put out less than stock, lol. But... to do that, you need to know what parts to use and how to set it up.
oops, that was a typo, don't know where I got 6 from! I meant 10mm elements.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
11-19-2012, 06:07 PM
#147
(11-19-2012, 05:27 PM)300SD81(11-19-2012, 05:05 PM)OM616 IMOP, if you are going to go big, you might as well go 10mm and be done with it. With the correct parts and settings, they can be made to put out less than stock, lol. But... to do that, you need to know what parts to use and how to set it up.
oops, that was a typo, don't know where I got 6 from! I meant 10mm elements.
I have only been using 10mm MW elements, so yes I have. Like I said above, they can be set up to put out less fuel than stock if desired.
Depending on the set up, an output of 90 cc/K Revs @ 13mm rack is standard, more or less fuel can be had.
My calibration machine will not be ready for a bit yet. I just wanted to get a feel for interest in 8mm MW elements because they are very rare and if this guy has some, I would say get as many as possible.
This post was last modified: 11-19-2012, 06:09 PM by OM616.
(11-19-2012, 05:27 PM)300SD81(11-19-2012, 05:05 PM)OM616 IMOP, if you are going to go big, you might as well go 10mm and be done with it. With the correct parts and settings, they can be made to put out less than stock, lol. But... to do that, you need to know what parts to use and how to set it up.
oops, that was a typo, don't know where I got 6 from! I meant 10mm elements.
I have only been using 10mm MW elements, so yes I have. Like I said above, they can be set up to put out less fuel than stock if desired.
Depending on the set up, an output of 90 cc/K Revs @ 13mm rack is standard, more or less fuel can be had.
My calibration machine will not be ready for a bit yet. I just wanted to get a feel for interest in 8mm MW elements because they are very rare and if this guy has some, I would say get as many as possible.
11-19-2012, 09:20 PM
#148
This will be in an FJ40 Landcruiser, manual trans, small VNT, as much intercooler as I'd ever need, 200 hp max. It will need adequate torque at low rpms for rock crawling and towing.
raysorenson
11-19-2012, 09:20 PM #148I'd be interested in 8mm MW elements if they were better for my application than 10mm. Perhaps you could tell me what would be best for my application.
This will be in an FJ40 Landcruiser, manual trans, small VNT, as much intercooler as I'd ever need, 200 hp max. It will need adequate torque at low rpms for rock crawling and towing.
11-20-2012, 02:13 PM
#149
(11-19-2012, 09:20 PM)raysorenson I'd be interested in 8mm MW elements if they were better for my application than 10mm. Perhaps you could tell me what would be best for my application.
This will be in an FJ40 Landcruiser, manual trans, small VNT, as much intercooler as I'd ever need, 200 hp max. It will need adequate torque at low rpms for rock crawling and towing.
IMOP, the only consideration that would make me lean to the 8mm elements would be if you are running stock nozzles. The difference being the rate of injection between the 8mm and 10mm elements given the same quantity delivered.
Additionally, for the general pump shop, the 8mm elements would be easer for them to install and tune to stock specks.
(11-19-2012, 09:20 PM)raysorenson I'd be interested in 8mm MW elements if they were better for my application than 10mm. Perhaps you could tell me what would be best for my application.
This will be in an FJ40 Landcruiser, manual trans, small VNT, as much intercooler as I'd ever need, 200 hp max. It will need adequate torque at low rpms for rock crawling and towing.
IMOP, the only consideration that would make me lean to the 8mm elements would be if you are running stock nozzles. The difference being the rate of injection between the 8mm and 10mm elements given the same quantity delivered.
Additionally, for the general pump shop, the 8mm elements would be easer for them to install and tune to stock specks.
11-22-2012, 08:33 PM
#150
I am going to eliminate the max speed governor on my personal pump, and I got to thinking that if I got rid of the vacuum shutoff actuator and made a solenoid one, I could build a module that monitored RPM and could set a Max RPM where it uses the shutdown solenoid to cut off fuel till the RPM drops to a certain speed where it turns off the solenoid and the rack is allowed to go back to full fueling. Basically turning the engine on and off repeatedly like a modern gas car.
This would allow full fueling right up to the rev limited speed, unlike the max speed governor, which starts cutting fuel long before red line.
Then to take it a step further, a stepper motor such as an IAC from an old throttle body injection unit could be used to replace the ALDA so that it’s function could be controlled by computer as well.
I have been thinking lately about stuff, and thought I would throw this out into the ether.
I am going to eliminate the max speed governor on my personal pump, and I got to thinking that if I got rid of the vacuum shutoff actuator and made a solenoid one, I could build a module that monitored RPM and could set a Max RPM where it uses the shutdown solenoid to cut off fuel till the RPM drops to a certain speed where it turns off the solenoid and the rack is allowed to go back to full fueling. Basically turning the engine on and off repeatedly like a modern gas car.
This would allow full fueling right up to the rev limited speed, unlike the max speed governor, which starts cutting fuel long before red line.
Then to take it a step further, a stepper motor such as an IAC from an old throttle body injection unit could be used to replace the ALDA so that it’s function could be controlled by computer as well.
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