Boost is limited at 2 bar....why?
Boost is limited at 2 bar....why?
Prerequisite:
- OM606A
- both manifolds are custom
- 7.5mm Tomnik plungers
- EFR6258 with 3.4 bar forged actuator
- 3inch exhaust
- big (but chineese) front A/A ic
- 3bar fuel
so all in - boost quickly grows to 2 bar and keeps limited at this level while back pressure reaches 2.2 bar.....black smoke is in place
The lines from exhaust ports to intake ports are checked at 3.5 bars - no leaks.
I'm thinking of stiffer exhause valve springs.....so two questions so far:
1) Where can I buy stiffer exhaust springs?
2) any idea why boost is limited at 2 bar????
here is a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62lXzllq4zs
I keep building my lovely G300TD off-roader based on OM606A and faced a boost issue.
Prerequisite:
- OM606A
- both manifolds are custom
- 7.5mm Tomnik plungers
- EFR6258 with 3.4 bar forged actuator
- 3inch exhaust
- big (but chineese) front A/A ic
- 3bar fuel
so all in - boost quickly grows to 2 bar and keeps limited at this level while back pressure reaches 2.2 bar.....black smoke is in place
The lines from exhaust ports to intake ports are checked at 3.5 bars - no leaks.
I'm thinking of stiffer exhause valve springs.....so two questions so far:
1) Where can I buy stiffer exhaust springs?
2) any idea why boost is limited at 2 bar????
here is a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62lXzllq4zs
stiffer springs you will find at
www.fullrace.com
many have had problem with the waste gate leaking
what exhaust house do you use?
have you triedout this, justmade soething realy fast forlooking atthe overview
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket...rsin=92044&
Nice build with ha nice turbo
stiffer springs you will find at
www.fullrace.com
many have had problem with the waste gate leaking
what exhaust house do you use?
have you triedout this, justmade soething realy fast forlooking atthe overview
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket...rsin=92044&
I use full race shop heavily, but don't know which springs to use provided no spec merc ones in place
www.full-race.com/store/engine-internals/valve-springs-retainers/
I consider kmcams.com/collections/ventilfjaerer-retainere-ventiler/products/mercedes-diesel-om606-ventilfjaerer
But don't know whether they are good ones....
T25
I use full race shop heavily, but don't know which springs to use provided no spec merc ones in place
www.full-race.com/store/engine-internals/valve-springs-retainers/
I consider kmcams.com/collections/ventilfjaerer-retainere-ventiler/products/mercedes-diesel-om606-ventilfjaerer
But don't know whether they are good ones....
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
I had a Chinese intercooler and was getting 9 psi pressure drop, but it was a smaller one. I got a bigger one and that fixed that. Do you have the 31x12x3 one? That is what I am running now and it's around one pound of boost.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
I gonna change ic for a fully custom one with customers core - I hope to get something like 0.2-0.3 bar of boost extra, but it doesn't solve the issue. I see significant boost restriction in the system and can't figure it out
take a look at the compressor map... http://www.maperformance.com/products/bo...R-6258.jpg
the max limit lays around 3.4 absolute , so it is 3.4bar less atmosferic pressure wich is 1 bar , so 2.4 in the gage, acounting for piping loss .2 bar, anf for gage instalation another .2, and in th end u can read 2.1 in the gage as max boost. for a waste gated turbo not bad.
so nothing wrong with it.
why dont u consider twin garret GT18 V like in the 220cdi one each set o 3 cylinders , VGT turbos goes almost to 4 bar absolute
FD,
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have u realized that the issue may be in the turbo.... not many turbos go above 3BAR absolute pressure......
take a look at the compressor map... http://www.maperformance.com/products/bo...R-6258.jpg
the max limit lays around 3.4 absolute , so it is 3.4bar less atmosferic pressure wich is 1 bar , so 2.4 in the gage, acounting for piping loss .2 bar, anf for gage instalation another .2, and in th end u can read 2.1 in the gage as max boost. for a waste gated turbo not bad.
so nothing wrong with it.
why dont u consider twin garret GT18 V like in the 220cdi one each set o 3 cylinders , VGT turbos goes almost to 4 bar absolute
FD,
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PS - I reached 2.2-2.3 bar a couple of days ago but such boost is not stable at this level - it goes to 2 bar at any condition but 2.2-2.3 is rather rare case....and I want to catch the issue of boost fluctuations
Efr is quite quick spool machine. Potentially I consider compound set up but it rather theoretical at the moment
PS - I reached 2.2-2.3 bar a couple of days ago but such boost is not stable at this level - it goes to 2 bar at any condition but 2.2-2.3 is rather rare case....and I want to catch the issue of boost fluctuations
(03-23-2015, 07:17 AM)kotka Efr is quite quick spool machine. Potentially I consider compound set up but it rather theoretical at the moment
PS - I reached 2.2-2.3 bar a couple of days ago but such boost is not stable at this level - it goes to 2 bar at any condition but 2.2-2.3 is rather rare case....and I want to catch the issue of boost fluctuations
look at the calculation I give you before you will properly lern alot by looking at some figures, by klicking you can se what different compressors will do.
there is even a exhaust house A/R 0,8 twin scroll that could be interesting to explore how it would affectthe setup
reagarding fullrace call them and speak with them, they are nice to speak with and often very helpfull
(03-23-2015, 07:17 AM)kotka Efr is quite quick spool machine. Potentially I consider compound set up but it rather theoretical at the moment
PS - I reached 2.2-2.3 bar a couple of days ago but such boost is not stable at this level - it goes to 2 bar at any condition but 2.2-2.3 is rather rare case....and I want to catch the issue of boost fluctuations
look at the calculation I give you before you will properly lern alot by looking at some figures, by klicking you can se what different compressors will do.
there is even a exhaust house A/R 0,8 twin scroll that could be interesting to explore how it would affectthe setup
reagarding fullrace call them and speak with them, they are nice to speak with and often very helpfull
(03-23-2015, 07:17 AM)kotka Efr is quite quick spool machine. Potentially I consider compound set up but it rather theoretical at the moment
PS - I reached 2.2-2.3 bar a couple of days ago but such boost is not stable at this level - it goes to 2 bar at any condition but 2.2-2.3 is rather rare case....and I want to catch the issue of boost fluctuations
look at the calculation I give you before you will properly lern alot by looking at some figures, by klicking you can se what different compressors will do.
there is even a exhaust house A/R 0,8 twin scroll that could be interesting to explore how it would affectthe setup
reagarding fullrace call them and speak with them, they are nice to speak with and often very helpfull
(03-23-2015, 07:17 AM)kotka Efr is quite quick spool machine. Potentially I consider compound set up but it rather theoretical at the moment
PS - I reached 2.2-2.3 bar a couple of days ago but such boost is not stable at this level - it goes to 2 bar at any condition but 2.2-2.3 is rather rare case....and I want to catch the issue of boost fluctuations
look at the calculation I give you before you will properly lern alot by looking at some figures, by klicking you can se what different compressors will do.
there is even a exhaust house A/R 0,8 twin scroll that could be interesting to explore how it would affectthe setup
reagarding fullrace call them and speak with them, they are nice to speak with and often very helpfull
))But I can't catch the robust spool up to 2.3-2.5 bar out of efr 6258.
But anyways - thanks for advice
)) it will probably change my approach to 7163 twin scroll
I've seen such things in the past - I created turbo calc macro before garrett has introduced its own app ))
But I can't catch the robust spool up to 2.3-2.5 bar out of efr 6258.
But anyways - thanks for advice )) it will probably change my approach to 7163 twin scroll
I have calculated a lot of the efr turbos and they hav some very good stuff to offer but in a diesel when exhaust temperatures is not that critical like at petrol engines VNT is doable it is not that clear what way to gogarretts calculating programe is just redicoulus in my opinion, match bot can calculate garett turbos if you just know what to do
efr7163 is a mighty fine turbo in how broad the compressor map is but efficency is not that good, but as diagunal turbine if you use gas pulses in thje exhaust it will b with higher efficency but have in mind that borg warner made these for petrol engines, titaniumnidride is lighter then inconel718 but it has to be thinker so efficiancy is going down. A garett VNT of GTD class with ball bearing is not that bad I have calculated a lot of the efr turbos and they hav some very good stuff to offer but in a diesel when exhaust temperatures is not that critical like at petrol engines VNT is doable it is not that clear what way to go
garretts calculating programe is just redicoulus in my opinion, match bot can calculate garett turbos if you just know what to do
I have calculated a lot of the efr turbos and they hav some very good stuff to offer but in a diesel when exhaust temperatures is not that critical like at petrol engines VNT is doable it is not that clear what way to gogarretts calculating programe is just redicoulus in my opinion, match bot can calculate garett turbos if you just know what to do
it would be interesting to se garettes new GTW turbos compressor maps when they relise them
efr7163 is a mighty fine turbo in how broad the compressor map is but efficency is not that good, but as diagunal turbine if you use gas pulses in thje exhaust it will b with higher efficency but have in mind that borg warner made these for petrol engines, titaniumnidride is lighter then inconel718 but it has to be thinker so efficiancy is going down. A garett VNT of GTD class with ball bearing is not that bad I have calculated a lot of the efr turbos and they hav some very good stuff to offer but in a diesel when exhaust temperatures is not that critical like at petrol engines VNT is doable it is not that clear what way to go
garretts calculating programe is just redicoulus in my opinion, match bot can calculate garett turbos if you just know what to do
it would be interesting to se garettes new GTW turbos compressor maps when they relise them
regards
FD,
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well, do u happen to have maps from the gt series, or where to find them! i´m particulaly interested in the GT2359V found in the C30AMG, and what is the diff from GT2359V found in the 320CDI engine 613. i dream of this info.
regards
FD,
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all VNT is OEM so no information about that is not for public..., I ment if you have normal garrett you can put it in match bot and see how it will do
But nore BW or garrett will provide a tubine map, garrett will at top say maximum efficency. I have only seen a hand full of turbine maps
If you measure inlet and outlet pressure, temperatures and take intoaccount static and dynamic pressures an temperatures yoiu will easy calculate efficency, but non stady ste conditions can trick you
If I am not mistaken, the difference between those two turbos is the turbine wheel, read majesty78 about his project and you will find it, I do not remeber it right now.
all VNT is OEM so no information about that is not for public..., I ment if you have normal garrett you can put it in match bot and see how it will do
But nore BW or garrett will provide a tubine map, garrett will at top say maximum efficency. I have only seen a hand full of turbine maps
If you measure inlet and outlet pressure, temperatures and take intoaccount static and dynamic pressures an temperatures yoiu will easy calculate efficency, but non stady ste conditions can trick you
My experience proves it was a right choice for 3 liter diesel engine and 3 ton truck even provided efr family is originally designed for gasoline engines.
I'm curious if the turbo lag between 6258 and 7163 is noticeable.... But I haven't found and comparison yet
Efr 6258 is my first efr family turbo experience. It proved to be fast spooling, very responsive. I changed my mind from garrett 2860rs to smallest efr one based on the efficiency assumptions above and technical solutions bw introduced.
My experience proves it was a right choice for 3 liter diesel engine and 3 ton truck even provided efr family is originally designed for gasoline engines.
I'm curious if the turbo lag between 6258 and 7163 is noticeable.... But I haven't found and comparison yet
(03-23-2015, 05:00 PM)Turbo If I am not mistaken, the difference between those two turbos is the turbine wheel, read majesty78 about his project and you will find it, I do not remeber it right now.
all VNT is OEM so no information about that is not for public..., I ment if you have normal garrett you can put it in match bot and see how it will do
But nore BW or garrett will provide a tubine map, garrett will at top say maximum efficency. I have only seen a hand full of turbine maps
i see, there must be some difference in the hot part, what i experience in my aplication is a huge increase in EGP above 4000RPM consistent with dificulties in exaust flow exit, and at this stage the vanes are completly open. so any solution to that turbo AMG have done. i suspect is just the housing wich flows better. or maybe something else.
what was the post u´re talking about?
regards
FD,
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(03-23-2015, 05:00 PM)Turbo If I am not mistaken, the difference between those two turbos is the turbine wheel, read majesty78 about his project and you will find it, I do not remeber it right now.
all VNT is OEM so no information about that is not for public..., I ment if you have normal garrett you can put it in match bot and see how it will do
But nore BW or garrett will provide a tubine map, garrett will at top say maximum efficency. I have only seen a hand full of turbine maps
i see, there must be some difference in the hot part, what i experience in my aplication is a huge increase in EGP above 4000RPM consistent with dificulties in exaust flow exit, and at this stage the vanes are completly open. so any solution to that turbo AMG have done. i suspect is just the housing wich flows better. or maybe something else.
what was the post u´re talking about?
regards
FD,
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(05-06-2015, 11:59 PM)kotka To make long story short - my 6258 set up is able to provide 700nm on wheels.
The fuel pressure doesn't really make any difference above 1 bar level.
Next try is 7163
Have you tried to block the wg completly and then tried?
What is pressure in the exhaust after turbo?
EDH_Performance
05-07-2015, 03:30 AM #27(05-06-2015, 11:59 PM)kotka To make long story short - my 6258 set up is able to provide 700nm on wheels.
The fuel pressure doesn't really make any difference above 1 bar level.
Next try is 7163
Have you tried to block the wg completly and then tried?
What is pressure in the exhaust after turbo?
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