W220 320cdi Challenge!! Refuse to start
W220 320cdi Challenge!! Refuse to start
challenge!!I think i have actually lost the fight with my w220 320cdi
I HATE LOSING
"When it starts it runs totally fine, you can force it by one squirt of start spray"
Rebuilt hp pump by myself(checked with star, better pressure than mercedes spec)
__Star at dealer cannot find any error__
New bosch feed pump
New filter and gasket
New plastic lines including gaskets.
Bought refurbished injectors, didnt work so i did them myself afterwards(missing parts inside, fine now)
New rail sensors
New cam and crank sensor
Starts sometimes. Warmstart(if u read "info" in command) it will almoat never start)
I think i have done everything, and bought most of new parts at dealer. (Discount, not so bad price)
This is all i remember now. I dont get it. I hate cdi now i think. Idi or nothing :-(
Picture from inside injector i bought refurbished...
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
challenge!!
I think i have actually lost the fight with my w220 320cdi
I HATE LOSING
"When it starts it runs totally fine, you can force it by one squirt of start spray"
Rebuilt hp pump by myself(checked with star, better pressure than mercedes spec)
__Star at dealer cannot find any error__
New bosch feed pump
New filter and gasket
New plastic lines including gaskets.
Bought refurbished injectors, didnt work so i did them myself afterwards(missing parts inside, fine now)
New rail sensors
New cam and crank sensor
Starts sometimes. Warmstart(if u read "info" in command) it will almoat never start)
I think i have done everything, and bought most of new parts at dealer. (Discount, not so bad price)
This is all i remember now. I dont get it. I hate cdi now i think. Idi or nothing :-(
Picture from inside injector i bought refurbished...
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
u might just have small snag in the wires.... some hardware runing bad .....simple thing like one bad conection give´s u that shitty problems.
FD,
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Watch parameters online if get it to run , look at pressures and temps ... but u need the OBD reader interface for that.
u might just have small snag in the wires.... some hardware runing bad .....simple thing like one bad conection give´s u that shitty problems.
FD,
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(03-09-2017, 02:00 PM)barrote Watch parameters online if get it to run , look at pressures and temps ... but u need the OBD reader interface for that.
u might just have small snag in the wires.... some hardware runing bad .....simple thing like one bad conection give´s u that shitty problems.
thx for reply, i have friends at mercedes dealer here, we ran the STAR 3 whole nights. all temps and pressure is normal...
Any tips for what to look for in bad boxes or wires? something standard? :->
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-09-2017, 02:00 PM)barrote Watch parameters online if get it to run , look at pressures and temps ... but u need the OBD reader interface for that.
u might just have small snag in the wires.... some hardware runing bad .....simple thing like one bad conection give´s u that shitty problems.
thx for reply, i have friends at mercedes dealer here, we ran the STAR 3 whole nights. all temps and pressure is normal...
Any tips for what to look for in bad boxes or wires? something standard? :->
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
whipplem104
03-09-2017, 09:09 PM #4If it starts off of starter fluid sprayed in the intake then it is not getting enough fuel pressure to start. A rediculously small internal leak in the injectors to the return line will cause this. You need to put the little measuring bottles on the injector return lines and crank. There is a specific amount they are allowed to leak. Also if the feed pressure at the high pressure pump is not high enough they will never start. So check the feed pressure from the gas tank electric pump to the high pressure pump. Just remember that about a 1mm hole or less will leak enough fuel pressure that it will never attempt to fire an injector.
It might well be injection hardware related, since u done some major changes...
Sorry cant help much. Any case is a case.
Wires and leaks are common problems . So as any other hardware.
FD,
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(03-09-2017, 09:09 PM)whipplem104 If it starts off of starter fluid sprayed in the intake then it is not getting enough fuel pressure to start. A rediculously small internal leak in the injectors to the return line will cause this. You need to put the little measuring bottles on the injector return lines and crank. There is a specific amount they are allowed to leak. Also if the feed pressure at the high pressure pump is not high enough they will never start. So check the feed pressure from the gas tank electric pump to the high pressure pump. Just remember that about a 1mm hole or less will leak enough fuel pressure that it will never attempt to fire an injector.
Hi and thanks. Have several mercedes STAR dignostics at dealer. All pressures are good/fine.
The injector leak off test is also fine.
From my knowledge this is a CDI2. So it is mechanical lift pump at front, over the high pressure pump. This one is new bosch. I keep scratching my head and cant understand anything....
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-09-2017, 09:09 PM)whipplem104 If it starts off of starter fluid sprayed in the intake then it is not getting enough fuel pressure to start. A rediculously small internal leak in the injectors to the return line will cause this. You need to put the little measuring bottles on the injector return lines and crank. There is a specific amount they are allowed to leak. Also if the feed pressure at the high pressure pump is not high enough they will never start. So check the feed pressure from the gas tank electric pump to the high pressure pump. Just remember that about a 1mm hole or less will leak enough fuel pressure that it will never attempt to fire an injector.
Hi and thanks. Have several mercedes STAR dignostics at dealer. All pressures are good/fine.
The injector leak off test is also fine.
From my knowledge this is a CDI2. So it is mechanical lift pump at front, over the high pressure pump. This one is new bosch. I keep scratching my head and cant understand anything....
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-10-2017, 02:33 AM)barrote CDI is just dificult to troubleshoot.
It might well be injection hardware related, since u done some major changes...
Sorry cant help much. Any case is a case.
Wires and leaks are common problems . So as any other hardware.
Thanks.. I think it is sad actually. W220 is a really good car with 320cdi. But this is not good enough i think.. i will keep trying, i cant lose to a damn car haha
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-10-2017, 02:33 AM)barrote CDI is just dificult to troubleshoot.
It might well be injection hardware related, since u done some major changes...
Sorry cant help much. Any case is a case.
Wires and leaks are common problems . So as any other hardware.
Thanks.. I think it is sad actually. W220 is a really good car with 320cdi. But this is not good enough i think.. i will keep trying, i cant lose to a damn car haha
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
Once i was chatting with a friend about a PSA engine that had a intermitent failure, or it didn´t start or it stalled, sometimes run fine the others failed and so on. Basically we found out that a cable from one injector was defective, that was causing the failure to run properly, fixed . Was doing the same then i was watching carefully the ECU parameters online and Idle rail pressure was too high, strange went in the car and thr it and it did not move. Later on we discovered the rail press valve defective.
The interesting was that the ECU reported no failure , except when the engine stalled in driving. Then we understood that when the rail press valve was not doing his job correctly the engine did not start due to lack of pressure to injectors.
I´m not saying u have same problema... one thing we know is: does your injectors injecting? remove one line install one spiting in atmosphere. check the conections one by one.
If engine is 613, there is one fuel line below the main HP pump that may be eaten by the belt. in this case the system does not bleed....
back basics, go after fuel at injector tip, then come backwards, u´ll find the problema.
good luck brother
FD,
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nan nan nan ,
Once i was chatting with a friend about a PSA engine that had a intermitent failure, or it didn´t start or it stalled, sometimes run fine the others failed and so on. Basically we found out that a cable from one injector was defective, that was causing the failure to run properly, fixed . Was doing the same then i was watching carefully the ECU parameters online and Idle rail pressure was too high, strange went in the car and thr it and it did not move. Later on we discovered the rail press valve defective.
The interesting was that the ECU reported no failure , except when the engine stalled in driving. Then we understood that when the rail press valve was not doing his job correctly the engine did not start due to lack of pressure to injectors.
I´m not saying u have same problema... one thing we know is: does your injectors injecting? remove one line install one spiting in atmosphere. check the conections one by one.
If engine is 613, there is one fuel line below the main HP pump that may be eaten by the belt. in this case the system does not bleed....
back basics, go after fuel at injector tip, then come backwards, u´ll find the problema.
good luck brother
FD,
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(03-10-2017, 07:19 AM)barrote nan nan nan ,Thx bro! I watched some russian assemble some injectors and i think i wanna go try again today!
Once i was chatting with a friend about a PSA engine that had a intermitent failure, or it didn´t start or it stalled, sometimes run fine the others failed and so on. Basically we found out that a cable from one injector was defective, that was causing the failure to run properly, fixed . Was doing the same then i was watching carefully the ECU parameters online and Idle rail pressure was too high, strange went in the car and thr it and it did not move. Later on we discovered the rail press valve defective.
The interesting was that the ECU reported no failure , except when the engine stalled in driving. Then we understood that when the rail press valve was not doing his job correctly the engine did not start due to lack of pressure to injectors.
I´m not saying u have same problema... one thing we know is: does your injectors injecting? remove one line install one spiting in atmosphere. check the conections one by one.
If engine is 613, there is one fuel line below the main HP pump that may be eaten by the belt. in this case the system does not bleed....
back basics, go after fuel at injector tip, then come backwards, u´ll find the problema.
good luck brother
All the plastic lines are new from MB. (Auch, expensive)
The pressure valve is noted. It has a brand new sealing kit. But ill keep it in mind.
Will have a go again!
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-10-2017, 07:19 AM)barrote nan nan nan ,Thx bro! I watched some russian assemble some injectors and i think i wanna go try again today!
Once i was chatting with a friend about a PSA engine that had a intermitent failure, or it didn´t start or it stalled, sometimes run fine the others failed and so on. Basically we found out that a cable from one injector was defective, that was causing the failure to run properly, fixed . Was doing the same then i was watching carefully the ECU parameters online and Idle rail pressure was too high, strange went in the car and thr it and it did not move. Later on we discovered the rail press valve defective.
The interesting was that the ECU reported no failure , except when the engine stalled in driving. Then we understood that when the rail press valve was not doing his job correctly the engine did not start due to lack of pressure to injectors.
I´m not saying u have same problema... one thing we know is: does your injectors injecting? remove one line install one spiting in atmosphere. check the conections one by one.
If engine is 613, there is one fuel line below the main HP pump that may be eaten by the belt. in this case the system does not bleed....
back basics, go after fuel at injector tip, then come backwards, u´ll find the problema.
good luck brother
All the plastic lines are new from MB. (Auch, expensive)
The pressure valve is noted. It has a brand new sealing kit. But ill keep it in mind.
Will have a go again!
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
will not fkn start !! im so pissed at this engine haha :-D
does anyone know what the button/valve on the plastic line is? its located at the rail. low pressure plastic lines
next will be to find a fuel pressure sensor to borrow for test....
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
did leakoff test once more, redid 1 injector and now all 6 are equal. very little leaks back...
will not fkn start !! im so pissed at this engine haha :-D
does anyone know what the button/valve on the plastic line is? its located at the rail. low pressure plastic lines
next will be to find a fuel pressure sensor to borrow for test....
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
That or is lack of fuel injection or electrics.
Electrics are less prone to failure and harder to detect.
U got to search where is the fuel. If the fuel is getting out the injector, then is time for searching electrics!
By this rational thinking u'll find the problem.
Good luck
FD,
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Listen...
That or is lack of fuel injection or electrics.
Electrics are less prone to failure and harder to detect.
U got to search where is the fuel. If the fuel is getting out the injector, then is time for searching electrics!
By this rational thinking u'll find the problem.
Good luck
FD,
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You have to put the beaker on check it that way.
whipplem104
03-11-2017, 09:01 AM #12When you say very little leaks back. That is not a measurement. Do you have the little beakers and measured them according to the factory spec? If not then you should do that test. The rail pressure needs to get high enough during cranking to even turn the injectors on. If it does not reach the spec pressure it will never even try to start. I just had a newer bluetec in the shop with extended crank and sometimes no start that this was the problem and it ran perfect and passed all tests while running. I had a sprinter years ago that would not start without starting fluid and one injector caused it not to start but once it was running it would run perfect and pass all tests.
You have to put the beaker on check it that way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
It is simple..watch rail pressure during crank it should go to 250Bar at least. It wont fire under 130! Not to offend you but you did HP pump and injectors without test on bosch stand so you can not be sure they are any good. Report back if pressure is there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(03-11-2017, 02:03 PM)starynovy It is simple..watch rail pressure during crank it should go to 250Bar at least. It wont fire under 130! Not to offend you but you did HP pump and injectors without test on bosch stand so you can not be sure they are any good. Report back if pressure is there.
Tanks for replying. as i have stated all pressures have been tested multiple times and are well in or over mercedes spec. Testes at dealer with mercedes's own STAR diganostics. The leakoff test has also been done with leakoff test equipment and is 'good'
I recon this have to e a electronic problem now since the car fires and runs perfect if/when it starts. That is untill you stop it and you need to playbthe lottery if it starts again.
If i need to say it, i'm pretty good with cars. I dont like to state this, but maybe it has to be said so we can look at different solutions than the ones i have tried :-)) thank you for helping
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-11-2017, 02:03 PM)starynovy It is simple..watch rail pressure during crank it should go to 250Bar at least. It wont fire under 130! Not to offend you but you did HP pump and injectors without test on bosch stand so you can not be sure they are any good. Report back if pressure is there.
Tanks for replying. as i have stated all pressures have been tested multiple times and are well in or over mercedes spec. Testes at dealer with mercedes's own STAR diganostics. The leakoff test has also been done with leakoff test equipment and is 'good'
I recon this have to e a electronic problem now since the car fires and runs perfect if/when it starts. That is untill you stop it and you need to playbthe lottery if it starts again.
If i need to say it, i'm pretty good with cars. I dont like to state this, but maybe it has to be said so we can look at different solutions than the ones i have tried :-)) thank you for helping
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
You can try to install one of the injectors with tip in the air if it fires but I think it wont. Rather measure with an osciloskope voltage across injector if there is any movement when cranking, sometimes caps in driver goes bad and then it goes crazy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Well.. You can try to install one of the injectors with tip in the air if it fires but I think it wont. Rather measure with an osciloskope voltage across injector if there is any movement when cranking, sometimes caps in driver goes bad and then it goes crazy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(03-23-2017, 06:17 AM)starynovy Well..
Thanks, will try this next.
Last update is that i changed the cam sensor, rail pressure regulator (rear one) and the pressure sensor (front) , borrowed from mechanic so i figured why not try again.....
Still the same issue...
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
(03-23-2017, 06:17 AM)starynovy Well..
Thanks, will try this next.
Last update is that i changed the cam sensor, rail pressure regulator (rear one) and the pressure sensor (front) , borrowed from mechanic so i figured why not try again.....
Still the same issue...
W201 2.5 turbo, restored, stock, aut. -89
W220 320cdi
Mazda RX-7 FD man. -92
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
It fires without cam sensor, sync error is present tho. You see rail pressure in star so sensor is good, if DRV malfunctioned you would get rail monitoring error. So these components are good anyway. Funny enough my 320cdi died the other day and now it stalls randomly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
If all the things you posted are true, and when the car starts, it runs "good", try swapping or fixing the starter motor.
CDI2 ecu's won't fire if at least you don't have 200rpm. Sometimes with worn starters this rpm's are varely reachable.
So you end up with the car not starting, and no errors stored.
Hope this helps!!!
Ducos,
If all the things you posted are true, and when the car starts, it runs "good", try swapping or fixing the starter motor.
CDI2 ecu's won't fire if at least you don't have 200rpm. Sometimes with worn starters this rpm's are varely reachable.
So you end up with the car not starting, and no errors stored.
Hope this helps!!!
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