Majesty78´s Majestic ;-)
Majesty78´s Majestic ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrKR7iUP...ata_player
Unfortunately we have bad weather an snow on streets so I can't test it currently :-(
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
It's alive :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrKR7iUP...ata_player
Unfortunately we have bad weather an snow on streets so I can't test it currently :-(
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
That is a beautiful ride!
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
First off: This compressor will for sure outflow the GT23 tubine by far!
This is only compressor calculation with normal 20 degrees celcius ambient air temperature.
I chose high volumetric efficiency of 96%, this may be lower in real, but to compensate i chose high lambda of 1.2
I am aware that this is pure THEORETICAL calculation, real world will quite sure create more losses, this calculation shall only be a rough estimation.
Formula used:
CFM = L x rpm x VE x PR / 5660
L = Displacement
rpm = well....rpm *g*
VE = volumetric efficiency
PR = Pressure ratio
"CFM" is US measuring unit, "cubic feet per minute" , and is used in some compressor maps.
CFM / 14.27 = lb/min
lb / 0.45359 = kg
Our comp-map is in m³/sec so we have to convert from weight to volume. Typical weight of ambient air is about 1.2kg/m³ at 20 degrees celcius.
PR = requested boost plus ambient pressure plus pressure losses
.
I have calculated plotting points for following rpm steps:
1500/2250/2500/3000/3500/4000/4350
2250 shall be our point of highest torque, and highest power shall be from 3500-4350
To go sure we don't come left to surge line, there is also 1500rpm calculated and a "starting point" with 20% from max. flow at PR1
Displacement in Liter 3.222
VE 96%
Plot 1 (Requested boost in intake manifold is 1.45bar + Ambient +0.15 losses = PR2.6))
3.222 x 1500 x 96 x 2.6 / 5660 = 213.13 CFM = 14.93lb/min = 6.77kg/min = 0.113kg/sec = 0.094m³/sec
Plot 1 = 0.094 / PR 2.6
Plot 2
3.222 x 2250 x 96 x 3.2 / 5660 = 393.47 CFM = 27.57lb/min = 12.50kg/min = 0.208kg/sec = 0.173m³/sec
Plot 2 = 0.173 / PR 3.2
Plot 3
3.222 x 2500 x 96 x 3.1 / 5660 = 423.53 CFM = 29.68lb/min = 13.46kg/min = 0.224kg/sec = 0.187m³/sec
Plot 3 = 0.187 / PR 3.1
Plot 4
3.222 x 3000 x 96 x 3.1 / 5660 = 508.23 CFM = 35.61lb/min = 16.15kg/min = 0.27kg/sec = 0.224m³/sec
Plot 4 = 0.224 / PR 3.1
Plot 5
3.222 x 3500 x 96 x 3.0 / 5660 = 573.81 CFM = 40.21lb/min = 18.24kg/min = 0.304kg/sec = 0.253m³/sec
Plot 5 = 0.253 / PR 3.0
Plot 6
3.222 x 4000 x 96 x 2.65 / 5660 = 579.28 CFM = 40.59lb/min = 18.41kg/min = 0.306kg/sec = 0.256m³/sec
Plot 6 = 0.256 / PR 2.65
Plot 7
3.222 x 4350 x 96 x 2.4 / 5660 = 570.53 CFM = 39.98lb/min = 18.13kg/min = 0.302kg/sec = 0.252m³/sec
Plot 7 = 0.252 / PR 2.4
Starting point for surge line: 20% of plot 6.
0.256 / 5 = 0.05 / PR 1
These data can be filled into the compressor map now:
![[Image: vdkf_plot_1eiub5.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=vdkf_plot_1eiub5.jpg)
Now we got our airmass. Lets see what fuel we need....
A 6 Cylinder 4 stroke engine has 3 combustion strokes per revolution.
This means @ 1500rpm:
1500 x 3 / 60 = 75 combustion strokes per second
2250 x 3 / 60 = 112.5T/sec
2500 x 3 / 60 = 125 T/sec
3000 x 3 / 60 = 150 T/sec
3500 x 3 / 60 = 175 T/sec
4000 x 3 / 60 = 200 T/sec
4350 x 3 / 60 = 217.5 T/sec
Lets calculate with Lambda 1.2.
When we converted from kg/sec to m³/sec for the plotting points above we also used factor 1.2 so we can use these numbers from above calculations.
At 1500 rpm these where 0.113Kg/sec or 0.094m³/sec. So we use 94g/sec. Divide by Lambda 1: 14.7 . 94/14.7 = 6.394g = 6394mg Diesel, divided through 75 combustion strokes per second = 85mg or 101mm³/stroke (Diesel densitiy is calculated with 0.84)
So here are the other points:
1500rpm: 94g/sec air and 85mg / 101mm^3 Diesel
2250rpm: 208g/sec air and 125mg / 149mm^3 Diesel
2500rpm: 224g/sec air and 122mg / 145mm^3 Diesel
3000rpm: 270g/sec air and 122mg / 145mm^3 Diesel
3500rpm: 304g/sec air and 118mg / 140mm^3 Diesel
4000rpm: 306g/sec air and 104mg / 123mm^3 Diesel
4350rpm: 302g/sec air and 94mg / 112mm^3 Diesel.
So if we look at stock program:
![[Image: l-1z7uww.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=l-1z7uww.jpg)
we see,the engine need 72mm³/stroke (60.5mg) for 470Nm in point of highest torque, this equals to 6.52Nm/mm³ or 7.77Nm per mm3.
At 2250 rpm we have 125mg/149mm³ which would lead to about 970Nm with a clean lambda of 1.2
About 60mm³ the stock engine needs at highest power rpm for the 197hp, in upper calculation our result is about 120mm³, so this would also give about TWICE the stock power ~ 400hp.
What a pity the GT23 turbine wont flow these amounts of exhaust gas :-(
But impressive what this "little" compressor could do, if coupled with a right sized turbine....
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Here are some calculations for the compressor wheel I am currently using in my MB.
First off: This compressor will for sure outflow the GT23 tubine by far!
This is only compressor calculation with normal 20 degrees celcius ambient air temperature.
I chose high volumetric efficiency of 96%, this may be lower in real, but to compensate i chose high lambda of 1.2
I am aware that this is pure THEORETICAL calculation, real world will quite sure create more losses, this calculation shall only be a rough estimation.
Formula used:
CFM = L x rpm x VE x PR / 5660
L = Displacement
rpm = well....rpm *g*
VE = volumetric efficiency
PR = Pressure ratio
"CFM" is US measuring unit, "cubic feet per minute" , and is used in some compressor maps.
CFM / 14.27 = lb/min
lb / 0.45359 = kg
Our comp-map is in m³/sec so we have to convert from weight to volume. Typical weight of ambient air is about 1.2kg/m³ at 20 degrees celcius.
PR = requested boost plus ambient pressure plus pressure losses
.
I have calculated plotting points for following rpm steps:
1500/2250/2500/3000/3500/4000/4350
2250 shall be our point of highest torque, and highest power shall be from 3500-4350
To go sure we don't come left to surge line, there is also 1500rpm calculated and a "starting point" with 20% from max. flow at PR1
Displacement in Liter 3.222
VE 96%
Plot 1 (Requested boost in intake manifold is 1.45bar + Ambient +0.15 losses = PR2.6))
3.222 x 1500 x 96 x 2.6 / 5660 = 213.13 CFM = 14.93lb/min = 6.77kg/min = 0.113kg/sec = 0.094m³/sec
Plot 1 = 0.094 / PR 2.6
Plot 2
3.222 x 2250 x 96 x 3.2 / 5660 = 393.47 CFM = 27.57lb/min = 12.50kg/min = 0.208kg/sec = 0.173m³/sec
Plot 2 = 0.173 / PR 3.2
Plot 3
3.222 x 2500 x 96 x 3.1 / 5660 = 423.53 CFM = 29.68lb/min = 13.46kg/min = 0.224kg/sec = 0.187m³/sec
Plot 3 = 0.187 / PR 3.1
Plot 4
3.222 x 3000 x 96 x 3.1 / 5660 = 508.23 CFM = 35.61lb/min = 16.15kg/min = 0.27kg/sec = 0.224m³/sec
Plot 4 = 0.224 / PR 3.1
Plot 5
3.222 x 3500 x 96 x 3.0 / 5660 = 573.81 CFM = 40.21lb/min = 18.24kg/min = 0.304kg/sec = 0.253m³/sec
Plot 5 = 0.253 / PR 3.0
Plot 6
3.222 x 4000 x 96 x 2.65 / 5660 = 579.28 CFM = 40.59lb/min = 18.41kg/min = 0.306kg/sec = 0.256m³/sec
Plot 6 = 0.256 / PR 2.65
Plot 7
3.222 x 4350 x 96 x 2.4 / 5660 = 570.53 CFM = 39.98lb/min = 18.13kg/min = 0.302kg/sec = 0.252m³/sec
Plot 7 = 0.252 / PR 2.4
Starting point for surge line: 20% of plot 6.
0.256 / 5 = 0.05 / PR 1
These data can be filled into the compressor map now:
Now we got our airmass. Lets see what fuel we need....
A 6 Cylinder 4 stroke engine has 3 combustion strokes per revolution.
This means @ 1500rpm:
1500 x 3 / 60 = 75 combustion strokes per second
2250 x 3 / 60 = 112.5T/sec
2500 x 3 / 60 = 125 T/sec
3000 x 3 / 60 = 150 T/sec
3500 x 3 / 60 = 175 T/sec
4000 x 3 / 60 = 200 T/sec
4350 x 3 / 60 = 217.5 T/sec
Lets calculate with Lambda 1.2.
When we converted from kg/sec to m³/sec for the plotting points above we also used factor 1.2 so we can use these numbers from above calculations.
At 1500 rpm these where 0.113Kg/sec or 0.094m³/sec. So we use 94g/sec. Divide by Lambda 1: 14.7 . 94/14.7 = 6.394g = 6394mg Diesel, divided through 75 combustion strokes per second = 85mg or 101mm³/stroke (Diesel densitiy is calculated with 0.84)
So here are the other points:
1500rpm: 94g/sec air and 85mg / 101mm^3 Diesel
2250rpm: 208g/sec air and 125mg / 149mm^3 Diesel
2500rpm: 224g/sec air and 122mg / 145mm^3 Diesel
3000rpm: 270g/sec air and 122mg / 145mm^3 Diesel
3500rpm: 304g/sec air and 118mg / 140mm^3 Diesel
4000rpm: 306g/sec air and 104mg / 123mm^3 Diesel
4350rpm: 302g/sec air and 94mg / 112mm^3 Diesel.
So if we look at stock program:
we see,the engine need 72mm³/stroke (60.5mg) for 470Nm in point of highest torque, this equals to 6.52Nm/mm³ or 7.77Nm per mm3.
At 2250 rpm we have 125mg/149mm³ which would lead to about 970Nm with a clean lambda of 1.2
About 60mm³ the stock engine needs at highest power rpm for the 197hp, in upper calculation our result is about 120mm³, so this would also give about TWICE the stock power ~ 400hp.
What a pity the GT23 turbine wont flow these amounts of exhaust gas :-(
But impressive what this "little" compressor could do, if coupled with a right sized turbine....
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Can your program take into count that of different inlet conditions then NTP?
Special interest is if the program can recalculate the operation point for the high pressure stage mussel diagram decided by the output conditions of the low pressure stage.
Thanks
Hi
Can your program take into count that of different inlet conditions then NTP?
Special interest is if the program can recalculate the operation point for the high pressure stage mussel diagram decided by the output conditions of the low pressure stage.
Thanks
But in general, you only have to use different factor for Inlet Air Temperature and different pressure ratios for 2stage...
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
My "program" is only a common calculator. All calculations are done by hand. I am working on a updated excel calculation table.
But in general, you only have to use different factor for Inlet Air Temperature and different pressure ratios for 2stage...
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Did you use something of the torque curve to predict the volumetric efficiency at different rpm for the engine?
You would not know of any program preferably of Garrett turbocharger that can simulation of 2 stage, of course I can right using excel but it is a lot of work that I for the moment do not look forward to
any way nice project specially about the turbo
I see, I was afraid that was the case but was hoping.
Did you use something of the torque curve to predict the volumetric efficiency at different rpm for the engine?
You would not know of any program preferably of Garrett turbocharger that can simulation of 2 stage, of course I can right using excel but it is a lot of work that I for the moment do not look forward to
any way nice project specially about the turbo
![[Image: 2012-09-2908.43.110zuj0.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2908.43.110zuj0.jpg)
![[Image: 2012-09-2909.04.03s6u15.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2909.04.03s6u15.jpg)
![[Image: 2012-09-2911.01.03d9u98.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2911.01.03d9u98.jpg)
![[Image: 2012-09-2915.28.556wu3q.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2915.28.556wu3q.jpg)
![[Image: 2012-09-2915.28.32miud6.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2915.28.32miud6.jpg)
![[Image: 2012-09-2915.28.48gcua5.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2915.28.48gcua5.jpg)
![[Image: 2012-09-2915.28.25pou8v.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2915.28.25pou8v.jpg)
Old gearbox:
![[Image: 2012-09-2911.21.435yu3d.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2911.21.435yu3d.jpg)
New, strengthend gearbox:
![[Image: 2012-09-2911.20.23clu7t.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2012-09-2911.20.23clu7t.jpg)
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Reinforced A/T gearbox and H&R sway bars installed :-)
Old gearbox:
New, strengthend gearbox:
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Custom turbocharger GT2566XTV
C30 AMG injectors
Deleted EGR
Deleted MAF
Deleted tumble flaps
4bar MAP sensor
3" downpipe stainless steel
Installed Zeitronix datalogger to read
EGT
EMP
IAT
RPM
TPS
Lambda (AFR)
Boost
First test drive part throttle:
First test drive WOT:
Stock intercooler is really bad, IAT raises over 70degrees celcius under WOT which stresses AFR and EGT, need to change this urgently.
But for this stage I am very happy, need to change intercooler and CR pump to get the max. out of setup :-)
BIG thank you to Dieselmeken for injectors rebuild and to my secret software programmer :-)))
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Some little changes been made:
Custom turbocharger GT2566XTV
C30 AMG injectors
Deleted EGR
Deleted MAF
Deleted tumble flaps
4bar MAP sensor
3" downpipe stainless steel
Installed Zeitronix datalogger to read
EGT
EMP
IAT
RPM
TPS
Lambda (AFR)
Boost
First test drive part throttle:
First test drive WOT:
Stock intercooler is really bad, IAT raises over 70degrees celcius under WOT which stresses AFR and EGT, need to change this urgently.
But for this stage I am very happy, need to change intercooler and CR pump to get the max. out of setup :-)
BIG thank you to Dieselmeken for injectors rebuild and to my secret software programmer :-)))
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
With now raised rail pressure power is clearly over 300hp, 1.9bar boost at 4.200rpm, Lambda 16:1 still smoke free on this engine.
Turbo pushes a lot of airmass for a "small frame" unit and boost/emp ratio is still good, a little headroom is still there.
But need better intercooler and pump to use it to it's limit.
Maybe my programmer chimes in and corrects the BS I am writing ^^
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
I have to evaluate with Star Diagnosis if programmed injection quantity reaches cylinders. Lambda readings tell so, but I want to go sure. If IQ reaches cylinders there should be around 800Nm.
With now raised rail pressure power is clearly over 300hp, 1.9bar boost at 4.200rpm, Lambda 16:1 still smoke free on this engine.
Turbo pushes a lot of airmass for a "small frame" unit and boost/emp ratio is still good, a little headroom is still there.
But need better intercooler and pump to use it to it's limit.
Maybe my programmer chimes in and corrects the BS I am writing ^^
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
I can't tell which boost at 1.500 because as soon as I give WOT engine RPM rise to about 2.500rpm due to A/T
Boost buildup to full boost of 2 bar takes about 1 second according to logs.
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
1500bar maximum.
I can't tell which boost at 1.500 because as soon as I give WOT engine RPM rise to about 2.500rpm due to A/T
Boost buildup to full boost of 2 bar takes about 1 second according to logs.
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
if you have 2 bars of boost what back pressure?
are you going to raise the rail pressure for 1800bars and CP3 pump?
(12-28-2012, 09:34 AM)majesty78 1500bar maximum.
I can't tell which boost at 1.500 because as soon as I give WOT engine RPM rise to about 2.500rpm due to A/T
Boost buildup to full boost of 2 bar takes about 1 second according to logs.
If it take one second for build up of 2 bars of boost is really impressive
if you have 2 bars of boost what back pressure?
are you going to raise the rail pressure for 1800bars and CP3 pump?
(12-28-2012, 09:34 AM)majesty78 1500bar maximum.
I can't tell which boost at 1.500 because as soon as I give WOT engine RPM rise to about 2.500rpm due to A/T
Boost buildup to full boost of 2 bar takes about 1 second according to logs.
Program asks 1,9bar boost from 2000rpm->4200rpm, with full throttle, practically that means 90mm^3 or more /stroke.
Same thing with rail pressure, 1500bar comes only when it is needed, ~same revs as above.
No more boost is needed now, turbo produces air very well.
I have done a lot a C30 AMG,s.
From it, without any changes I get ~140nm and 60hp/cyl with 1500bar rail pressure, with a bit of smoke.
This car is very near to smokeless limit now, problem is not amount of fuel, but injection of duration time is so long.
With 1800bar railpressure and AMG injectors I have got ~150nm and 70hp/cyl.
Higher pressure gives more fuel in the same injection time.
Or bigger injectors, the best solution ...
When duration time comes too long, EGT and EMP rices right away, and smoke ...
Injection of duration time cannot be longer that "injection window allows".
So basically, it is not a question of amount of duration now, it is a question of time and how much smoke and EMP is allowed ...
.
Program asks 1,9bar boost from 2000rpm->4200rpm, with full throttle, practically that means 90mm^3 or more /stroke.
Same thing with rail pressure, 1500bar comes only when it is needed, ~same revs as above.
No more boost is needed now, turbo produces air very well.
I have done a lot a C30 AMG,s.
From it, without any changes I get ~140nm and 60hp/cyl with 1500bar rail pressure, with a bit of smoke.
This car is very near to smokeless limit now, problem is not amount of fuel, but injection of duration time is so long.
With 1800bar railpressure and AMG injectors I have got ~150nm and 70hp/cyl.
Higher pressure gives more fuel in the same injection time.
Or bigger injectors, the best solution ...
When duration time comes too long, EGT and EMP rices right away, and smoke ...
Injection of duration time cannot be longer that "injection window allows".
So basically, it is not a question of amount of duration now, it is a question of time and how much smoke and EMP is allowed ...
In the past you have said that the higher rail pressure at full power the better
but now you say that bigger nozzle is better? You are thinkig of amg+ injectors? In the past you have also spoken about that the window for injection getting shorter all the time when we increase the power, the CP3 pump is able to handle 2000bars. Is faster injectors not feasible here?
In what I have been able to read about your 320cdi project in the past you run in the wall even that even you getting the boost there where no more power from your 320cdi, just black smoke, have you learn how to overcome that?
what boost you need for 70HK/cyl 1800bars rail pressure?
simply I am working out the way for my 270cdi project but very few have knowledge and experience about cdi there of my big interest in the injectors.
Turbos is the least concern I have
(12-28-2012, 02:43 PM)tuikku .
Program asks 1,9bar boost from 2000rpm->4200rpm, with full throttle, practically that means 90mm^3 or more /stroke.
Same thing with rail pressure, 1500bar comes only when it is needed, ~same revs as above.
No more boost is needed now, turbo produces air very well.
I have done a lot a C30 AMG,s.
From it, without any changes I get ~140nm and 60hp/cyl with 1500bar rail pressure, with a bit of smoke.
This car is very near to smokeless limit now, problem is not amount of fuel, but injection of duration time is so long.
With 1800bar railpressure and AMG injectors I have got ~150nm and 70hp/cyl.
Higher pressure gives more fuel in the same injection time.
Or bigger injectors, the best solution ...
When duration time comes too long, EGT and EMP rices right away, and smoke ...
Injection of duration time cannot be longer that "injection window allows".
So basically, it is not a question of amount of duration now, it is a question of time and how much smoke and EMP is allowed ...
Most Interesting Tuikku
In the past you have said that the higher rail pressure at full power the better
but now you say that bigger nozzle is better? You are thinkig of amg+ injectors? In the past you have also spoken about that the window for injection getting shorter all the time when we increase the power, the CP3 pump is able to handle 2000bars. Is faster injectors not feasible here?
In what I have been able to read about your 320cdi project in the past you run in the wall even that even you getting the boost there where no more power from your 320cdi, just black smoke, have you learn how to overcome that?
what boost you need for 70HK/cyl 1800bars rail pressure?
simply I am working out the way for my 270cdi project but very few have knowledge and experience about cdi there of my big interest in the injectors.
Turbos is the least concern I have
(12-28-2012, 02:43 PM)tuikku .
Program asks 1,9bar boost from 2000rpm->4200rpm, with full throttle, practically that means 90mm^3 or more /stroke.
Same thing with rail pressure, 1500bar comes only when it is needed, ~same revs as above.
No more boost is needed now, turbo produces air very well.
I have done a lot a C30 AMG,s.
From it, without any changes I get ~140nm and 60hp/cyl with 1500bar rail pressure, with a bit of smoke.
This car is very near to smokeless limit now, problem is not amount of fuel, but injection of duration time is so long.
With 1800bar railpressure and AMG injectors I have got ~150nm and 70hp/cyl.
Higher pressure gives more fuel in the same injection time.
Or bigger injectors, the best solution ...
When duration time comes too long, EGT and EMP rices right away, and smoke ...
Injection of duration time cannot be longer that "injection window allows".
So basically, it is not a question of amount of duration now, it is a question of time and how much smoke and EMP is allowed ...
AMG-injectors are not so big, after all.
You reach the limit quite easily, after that the only way to get more smokeless power, is more rail pressure, or even bigger injectors.
The good thing in AMG´s injectors is, that there are complete konfiguration and timing maps in orig C30 program, which can be used.
I do not know, if edc-15 program supports piezo-injectors.
Program and programming are not so important in this, this is Alexi´s thread.
Program only let the power come, that the parts can do.
The turbo, Alex made is very good, and injectors that dieselmekken has made are clearly equal to orig AMG´s.
.
AMG-injectors are not so big, after all.
You reach the limit quite easily, after that the only way to get more smokeless power, is more rail pressure, or even bigger injectors.
The good thing in AMG´s injectors is, that there are complete konfiguration and timing maps in orig C30 program, which can be used.
I do not know, if edc-15 program supports piezo-injectors.
Program and programming are not so important in this, this is Alexi´s thread.
Program only let the power come, that the parts can do.
The turbo, Alex made is very good, and injectors that dieselmekken has made are clearly equal to orig AMG´s.
Having bigger injector nozzles at eqaul pressure will affect atomization and therefore efficiency in regards of Nm vs mm^³
Having injector nozzles with bigger orifice but more spray holes will minimize these negative effects.
Raising railpressure is extra stress and drive power for pump.
Some time ago I asked a injector nozzle manufacturer for custom made nozzles.
They stated that they can do, but when the order became serious, they wanted an big order quantity of at least 50pcs if made on Bosch basic nozzles (Up to 50% flow increase) or 100pcs. based on blank steel bar (Over 50% increase in flow).
Those quantities where to high for me plus I have no idea if there is even a market for 50pcs, there are not many people modifying these "old" CR engines.
Anyway, the most important next step for me is now the intercooler, the stock unit is utterly crap, after changed the IC I will look into installing the CP3 pump I have here already.
Using the timing chain cover from C30 CDI makes the swap easier because it is already designed for CP3 pump.
Anyhow, what I do clearly recommend is using good data-logger for making software, the Star Diagnosis has good functions for seeing important data, but it is very slow sample rate, so you miss a lot of data over time, especially when quick rising RPM at WOT acceleration.
For this reason I have installed an external data logger to monitor:
EMP
EGT
IAT
Boost
RPM
Throttle position sensor
Lambda
with 60hz sample rate. This will even show you how quick and detailed VTG control works and you see on lambda how engine is using boost (airmass)/ fuel....
@cutaresku: I have welded my own 3" downpipe with V-band connection.
![[Image: 20121222_180507l0cfx.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121222_180507l0cfx.jpg)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
No matter how you see it, but customizing/tuning is always an compromise up to a certain point.
Having bigger injector nozzles at eqaul pressure will affect atomization and therefore efficiency in regards of Nm vs mm^³
Having injector nozzles with bigger orifice but more spray holes will minimize these negative effects.
Raising railpressure is extra stress and drive power for pump.
Some time ago I asked a injector nozzle manufacturer for custom made nozzles.
They stated that they can do, but when the order became serious, they wanted an big order quantity of at least 50pcs if made on Bosch basic nozzles (Up to 50% flow increase) or 100pcs. based on blank steel bar (Over 50% increase in flow).
Those quantities where to high for me plus I have no idea if there is even a market for 50pcs, there are not many people modifying these "old" CR engines.
Anyway, the most important next step for me is now the intercooler, the stock unit is utterly crap, after changed the IC I will look into installing the CP3 pump I have here already.
Using the timing chain cover from C30 CDI makes the swap easier because it is already designed for CP3 pump.
Anyhow, what I do clearly recommend is using good data-logger for making software, the Star Diagnosis has good functions for seeing important data, but it is very slow sample rate, so you miss a lot of data over time, especially when quick rising RPM at WOT acceleration.
For this reason I have installed an external data logger to monitor:
EMP
EGT
IAT
Boost
RPM
Throttle position sensor
Lambda
with 60hz sample rate. This will even show you how quick and detailed VTG control works and you see on lambda how engine is using boost (airmass)/ fuel....
@cutaresku: I have welded my own 3" downpipe with V-band connection.
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
I agree ...
As important thing that injectors are big, is that from what engine they are from, and from what purpose.
If you want them to work properly, without the constant smoke.
At the very least injectors kalibration map and SOI maps are needed.
Otherwise, no possibility to have them work well, they smoke like "tuned VW´s".
In fact, soot drips out of their exhaust pipes heads ...;-))
Thunder ...
![[Image: 302xawk.jpg]](http://i47.tinypic.com/302xawk.jpg)
.
I agree ...
As important thing that injectors are big, is that from what engine they are from, and from what purpose.
If you want them to work properly, without the constant smoke.
At the very least injectors kalibration map and SOI maps are needed.
Otherwise, no possibility to have them work well, they smoke like "tuned VW´s".
In fact, soot drips out of their exhaust pipes heads ...;-))
Thunder ...
do you know where to get hold of the AMG+ nozzle you spoke about in the past?
Did you see the e-mail I sent to you
sorry Alex not my intention to hijack your...
any way very nice tuning, would be interesting with more information, specially when you get in the CP3 pump in, and please some nice pictures
How much to you think the peak pressure at combustion reach in your engine?
(12-29-2012, 03:26 PM)tuikku .
I agree ...
As important thing that injectors are big, is that from what engine they are from, and from what purpose.
If you want them to work properly, without the constant smoke.
At the very least injectors kalibration map and SOI maps are needed.
Otherwise, no possibility to have them work well, they smoke like "tuned VW´s".
In fact, soot drips out of their exhaust pipes heads ...;-))
Thunder ...
Tuikku
do you know where to get hold of the AMG+ nozzle you spoke about in the past?
Did you see the e-mail I sent to you
sorry Alex not my intention to hijack your...
any way very nice tuning, would be interesting with more information, specially when you get in the CP3 pump in, and please some nice pictures
How much to you think the peak pressure at combustion reach in your engine?
(12-29-2012, 03:26 PM)tuikku .
I agree ...
As important thing that injectors are big, is that from what engine they are from, and from what purpose.
If you want them to work properly, without the constant smoke.
At the very least injectors kalibration map and SOI maps are needed.
Otherwise, no possibility to have them work well, they smoke like "tuned VW´s".
In fact, soot drips out of their exhaust pipes heads ...;-))
Thunder ...
).As for its diameter, which dimension would be better, not to exceed or loose back pressure? Think about 50 to 70 mm (I'm dizzy with inches).
And one more: have in mind buying a boost gauge, mechanical one, but still not sure where should I match the vacuum line, instructions say inside intake manifold (?) and I got no clue how would that be possible...
Happy new year with more HP's and Nm's!
W210, 2001, OM611.961 105kw, 6+1.
Alex, as for the downpipe, I have been looking for a custom made one, to be fitted with the original safety clamps, not happy with welding. ~200 euro got a quote from a Top Gear garage, will do it ASAP (next year ).
As for its diameter, which dimension would be better, not to exceed or loose back pressure? Think about 50 to 70 mm (I'm dizzy with inches).
And one more: have in mind buying a boost gauge, mechanical one, but still not sure where should I match the vacuum line, instructions say inside intake manifold (?) and I got no clue how would that be possible...
Happy new year with more HP's and Nm's!
W210, 2001, OM611.961 105kw, 6+1.
Boost gauge pickup has to be taken from intake manifold or somewhere in intake piping AFTER turbo compressor.
![[Image: sensorssdr1w.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=sensorssdr1w.jpg)
![[Image: rpm_pickupoxr1j.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=rpm_pickupoxr1j.jpg)
![[Image: overviewo9rnl.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=overviewo9rnl.jpg)
![[Image: egt_emp97rc2.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=egt_emp97rc2.jpg)
![[Image: left_over41pif.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=left_over41pif.jpg)
And some random pics during the build:
Wiring up the datalogger (I hate electrics stuff ^^)
![[Image: 20121220_133927uooiq.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121220_133927uooiq.jpg)
![[Image: 20121220_135226sbo75.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121220_135226sbo75.jpg)
![[Image: 20121221_0752096xr8n.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121221_0752096xr8n.jpg)
EGT sensor in place:
![[Image: 20121205_220913ckqr3.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121205_220913ckqr3.jpg)
My pride and joy *g*
![[Image: 20121220_203354wgof4.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121220_203354wgof4.jpg)
![[Image: 20121220_2156199kqjw.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121220_2156199kqjw.jpg)
Removing tumble flaps needs block of plugs:
![[Image: 20121210_115436vopt8.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121210_115436vopt8.jpg)
![[Image: 20121210_112536ajrn7.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121210_112536ajrn7.jpg)
![[Image: 20121210_114957v2rym.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121210_114957v2rym.jpg)
![[Image: 20121210_122138r7pwi.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121210_122138r7pwi.jpg)
Fabricating EGR delete pipe:
Cut the original part:
![[Image: 20121210_15500415qp0.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121210_15500415qp0.jpg)
Piece of rest aluminium pipe should do the trick:
![[Image: 20121210_16482249qqs.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121210_16482249qqs.jpg)
Water cut the upper flange which meets to intake manifold:
![[Image: 20121212_113731lirpx.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121212_113731lirpx.jpg)
Weld everything together:
![[Image: 20121212_151409zupjb.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121212_151409zupjb.jpg)
And a little "stealth" paint ;-)
![[Image: 20121212_174554o6oy7.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121212_174554o6oy7.jpg)
Intake MAF less to turbo:
![[Image: 20121221_162844orpko.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121221_162844orpko.jpg)
Next step GIGANTIC INTERCOOLER ^^
![[Image: 20121228_154705k9s92.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121228_154705k9s92.jpg)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
You don't need much backpressure pre-turbine on a turbo engine, I think you will be fine with some 63.5mm (2.5")
Boost gauge pickup has to be taken from intake manifold or somewhere in intake piping AFTER turbo compressor.
And some random pics during the build:
Wiring up the datalogger (I hate electrics stuff ^^)
EGT sensor in place:
My pride and joy *g*
Removing tumble flaps needs block of plugs:
Fabricating EGR delete pipe:
Cut the original part:
Piece of rest aluminium pipe should do the trick:
Water cut the upper flange which meets to intake manifold:
Weld everything together:
And a little "stealth" paint ;-)
Intake MAF less to turbo:
Next step GIGANTIC INTERCOOLER ^^
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
WHERE in the world are you going to mount that TINY piece of radiator?
You also got rid of the oil separator, as I see. There's also no MAF.
As for the boost gauge line, you're lucky enough not to have the shitty plastic intake manifold (just replaced mine several month ago, close to 500 euro). I'm therefore a bit hesitating in drilling a hole in that plastic...
Very, very inspiring work. Many thanks and keep it going!
W210, 2001, OM611.961 105kw, 6+1.
You're kidding me, right?!
WHERE in the world are you going to mount that TINY piece of radiator?
You also got rid of the oil separator, as I see. There's also no MAF.
As for the boost gauge line, you're lucky enough not to have the shitty plastic intake manifold (just replaced mine several month ago, close to 500 euro). I'm therefore a bit hesitating in drilling a hole in that plastic...
Very, very inspiring work. Many thanks and keep it going!
W210, 2001, OM611.961 105kw, 6+1.
For boost pickup you can use any location in boost piping.
Per example if you want to locate in a boost hose there are these "Quick Tap" called adapters which can be mounted in any rubber/silicone hose within 2 minutes.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc...y_Code=BCS
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
You actually dont need to drill your plastic manifold.
For boost pickup you can use any location in boost piping.
Per example if you want to locate in a boost hose there are these "Quick Tap" called adapters which can be mounted in any rubber/silicone hose within 2 minutes.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc...y_Code=BCS
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
All work it's done pro, I like that. I think in your project would be some room for a propane injection system(if u want more power after reaching injectors and pump limits), as the internals should hold more power and torque. GL with the project and keep us updated and vids too 
lost in the diesel universe.............
I've watched closely this thread and I like the way it's progressing All work it's done pro, I like that. I think in your project would be some room for a propane injection system(if u want more power after reaching injectors and pump limits), as the internals should hold more power and torque. GL with the project and keep us updated and vids too
lost in the diesel universe.............
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-02-2013, 05:31 AM #79Top Class project Alex...the car looks like a factory produced AMG edition...but even better!....What did you do to the gearbox. Did you purchase a higher spec unit or did you get the old gearbox rebuilt? What about the torque converter and the rear axle ratio?. Were you able to overcome your TCU problems?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Torque converter is still stock but T/C lockup clutch is a reinforced Kevlar based disc.
TCU is now recoded to AMG specification with StarDiagnosis.
There is still a little slip, but maybe it will help to raise system oil pressure.
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Gearbox is rebuild with AMG spec parts and maximum number of friction discs.
Torque converter is still stock but T/C lockup clutch is a reinforced Kevlar based disc.
TCU is now recoded to AMG specification with StarDiagnosis.
There is still a little slip, but maybe it will help to raise system oil pressure.
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(01-03-2013, 04:06 PM)majesty78 Gearbox is rebuild with AMG spec parts and maximum number of friction discs.
Torque converter is still stock but T/C lockup clutch is a reinforced Kevlar based disc.
TCU is now recoded to AMG specification with StarDiagnosis.
There is still a little slip, but maybe it will help to raise system oil pressure.
Who did this for you...Is it expensive?
Is six speed manual not possible with these cars?
Would your datalogger not take the signals from the existing sensors on the CDI engine...or is it quicker doing it through its own sensors?
The CAT,EGR & MAF is what always caused 'issues' with these engines...removal not only improves performance, but makes these engines infinitely reliable...and tuneable
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-03-2013, 05:05 PM #81(01-03-2013, 04:06 PM)majesty78 Gearbox is rebuild with AMG spec parts and maximum number of friction discs.
Torque converter is still stock but T/C lockup clutch is a reinforced Kevlar based disc.
TCU is now recoded to AMG specification with StarDiagnosis.
There is still a little slip, but maybe it will help to raise system oil pressure.
Who did this for you...Is it expensive?
Is six speed manual not possible with these cars?
Would your datalogger not take the signals from the existing sensors on the CDI engine...or is it quicker doing it through its own sensors?
The CAT,EGR & MAF is what always caused 'issues' with these engines...removal not only improves performance, but makes these engines infinitely reliable...and tuneable
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
http://www.goherrmanns.de/live/Mercedes-...riebe.aspx
Pricing was 1.920€ including taxes.
I bought a donor transmission for 400€ and sent it to them the other day, so I have now left over my old A/T.
Regarding the sensors: There is no EGT/EMP sensor on car, but I use RPM and TPS signal from car.
The Zeitronix device could handle any 0-5V signal, so yes, it would have been possible to use p/e boost/IAT from OEM sensors.
As you see I had to remove the intae manifold for drilling, so it is actuially not easier using external sensors, but as I was fabbing up an EGR delete pipe I had to remove it anyway. Plus cleaning it out was an good idea, the intake runners where badly clogged up by EGR/CCV mud:
![[Image: 20121209_160656nure3.jpg]](http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=20121209_160656nure3.jpg)
6spd manual would be a nice to have in regards to a more responsive and "direct" drivetrain, but as the A/T is build to handle 580Nm from stock and the 6spd manual is only rated to 370Nm I guess the A/T will be the more reliable choice after all.
Especially when going "big" and using the full potential of CP3 pump plus AMG injectors where you end up at about 900Nm. I think this will kill a M/T quite quick :-(
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
This company did it on mine:
http://www.goherrmanns.de/live/Mercedes-...riebe.aspx
Pricing was 1.920€ including taxes.
I bought a donor transmission for 400€ and sent it to them the other day, so I have now left over my old A/T.
Regarding the sensors: There is no EGT/EMP sensor on car, but I use RPM and TPS signal from car.
The Zeitronix device could handle any 0-5V signal, so yes, it would have been possible to use p/e boost/IAT from OEM sensors.
As you see I had to remove the intae manifold for drilling, so it is actuially not easier using external sensors, but as I was fabbing up an EGR delete pipe I had to remove it anyway. Plus cleaning it out was an good idea, the intake runners where badly clogged up by EGR/CCV mud:
6spd manual would be a nice to have in regards to a more responsive and "direct" drivetrain, but as the A/T is build to handle 580Nm from stock and the 6spd manual is only rated to 370Nm I guess the A/T will be the more reliable choice after all.
Especially when going "big" and using the full potential of CP3 pump plus AMG injectors where you end up at about 900Nm. I think this will kill a M/T quite quick :-(
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
But downside: I have no clue if V6 gearbox will anyhow line up to the R6 engine.....
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
I just found this information on internets, but I have found out that the newer W204 C class with 320CDI V6 engine can also be ordered with 6spd manual transmission, so obviously there must be an stronger gearbox from MB to handle the torque from the 3liter V6 engine.
But downside: I have no clue if V6 gearbox will anyhow line up to the R6 engine.....
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(01-05-2013, 04:23 AM)majesty78 I just found this information on internets, but I have found out that the newer W204 C class with 320CDI V6 engine can also be ordered with 6spd manual transmission, so obviously there must be an stronger gearbox from MB to handle the torque from the 3liter V6 engine.
But downside: I have no clue if V6 gearbox will anyhow line up to the R6 engine.....
Hi Majesty,
I imagine the 6 speed manual 'box out of the 515 Sprinter should be man enough for the job as these are heavy duty and I have seen them running sucessfully at 6,500kgs...I'm not very sure of it's torque rating though, but it bolts right up to the inline 6 engine.
Can the engine ECU be configured to operate without the auto ECU?
Was it through the engine remapping that you were able to delete the MAF,EGR etc....or can these items be totally switched off/by passed through Star Diagnosis?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-06-2013, 10:34 AM #85(01-05-2013, 04:23 AM)majesty78 I just found this information on internets, but I have found out that the newer W204 C class with 320CDI V6 engine can also be ordered with 6spd manual transmission, so obviously there must be an stronger gearbox from MB to handle the torque from the 3liter V6 engine.
But downside: I have no clue if V6 gearbox will anyhow line up to the R6 engine.....
Hi Majesty,
I imagine the 6 speed manual 'box out of the 515 Sprinter should be man enough for the job as these are heavy duty and I have seen them running sucessfully at 6,500kgs...I'm not very sure of it's torque rating though, but it bolts right up to the inline 6 engine.
Can the engine ECU be configured to operate without the auto ECU?
Was it through the engine remapping that you were able to delete the MAF,EGR etc....or can these items be totally switched off/by passed through Star Diagnosis?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Possibly could be the same box as in passenger cars like the one that hansebanger uses.
The deleted parts have to be recognized in ECU with remap ;-)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Interesting Info about the sprinter gearbox, but the strongest inline engine was the 2.2L CDI with 150hp/330Nm torque.
Possibly could be the same box as in passenger cars like the one that hansebanger uses.
The deleted parts have to be recognized in ECU with remap ;-)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(01-05-2013, 04:23 AM)majesty78 I just found this information on internets, but I have found out that the newer W204 C class with 320CDI V6 engine can also be ordered with 6spd manual transmission, so obviously there must be an stronger gearbox from MB to handle the torque from the 3liter V6 engine.
the shifter has reduced torque with the same engine(only V6) in the w203 compared to the 7 gear automatic trans.
415Nm shifter/510Nm automatic, was sold after the facelift
94´E 300D ,white , black leather interior, om606.910,MB 5speed shifter
(01-05-2013, 04:23 AM)majesty78 I just found this information on internets, but I have found out that the newer W204 C class with 320CDI V6 engine can also be ordered with 6spd manual transmission, so obviously there must be an stronger gearbox from MB to handle the torque from the 3liter V6 engine.
the shifter has reduced torque with the same engine(only V6) in the w203 compared to the 7 gear automatic trans.
415Nm shifter/510Nm automatic, was sold after the facelift
94´E 300D ,white , black leather interior, om606.910,MB 5speed shifter
It was not easy so thing to learn how to delete MAF and EGR and ELAB completely in program.
Originally Bosio made 60pcs power+ nozzles and if you want them now, the minimium order might be that 50-100.
Power+ nozzles are only ~10% bigger than orig AMG`s, but some progress anyway.
.
It was not easy so thing to learn how to delete MAF and EGR and ELAB completely in program.
Originally Bosio made 60pcs power+ nozzles and if you want them now, the minimium order might be that 50-100.
Power+ nozzles are only ~10% bigger than orig AMG`s, but some progress anyway.
Not so fun to change injectors again ;-)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
I rather go with CP3 pump ^^
Not so fun to change injectors again ;-)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(01-08-2013, 02:06 AM)tuikku .
It was not easy so thing to learn how to delete MAF and EGR and ELAB completely in program.
Originally Bosio made 60pcs power+ nozzles and if you want them now, the minimium order might be that 50-100.
Power+ nozzles are only ~10% bigger than orig AMG`s, but some progress anyway.
ELAB is the motor for the swirl flaps?
When you delete MAF, ELAB etc....Must you terminate the wires or put resistors across them so the ECU still thinks the sensors/motors/actuators are in place?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-13-2013, 05:11 AM #90(01-08-2013, 02:06 AM)tuikku .
It was not easy so thing to learn how to delete MAF and EGR and ELAB completely in program.
Originally Bosio made 60pcs power+ nozzles and if you want them now, the minimium order might be that 50-100.
Power+ nozzles are only ~10% bigger than orig AMG`s, but some progress anyway.
ELAB is the motor for the swirl flaps?
When you delete MAF, ELAB etc....Must you terminate the wires or put resistors across them so the ECU still thinks the sensors/motors/actuators are in place?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
If removed in SW correctly, there is no need for resistors. Just remove the no more needed parts and leave the connectors blank.
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(01-13-2013, 02:18 PM)majesty78 If removed in SW correctly, there is no need for resistors. Just remove the no more needed parts and leave the connectors blank.
i have also remove the egr and all other parts :-)
can you help me to remove this into the software correctly ?
Aluman
01-20-2013, 01:15 PM #93(01-13-2013, 02:18 PM)majesty78 If removed in SW correctly, there is no need for resistors. Just remove the no more needed parts and leave the connectors blank.
i have also remove the egr and all other parts :-)
can you help me to remove this into the software correctly ?
Will need a few weeks until I can spend some time on this project again.....
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
At the moment I have so much work in my workshop that unfortunately I have absolutely 0 time for my own cars :-(
Will need a few weeks until I can spend some time on this project again.....
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
![[Image: qnpoi.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=qnpoi.jpg)
![[Image: 83pco.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=83pco.jpg)
![[Image: dvrhg.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=dvrhg.jpg)
![[Image: dfql9.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=dfql9.jpg)
![[Image: tdpuz.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=tdpuz.jpg)
![[Image: 20130422_09535183jsd.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=20130422_09535183jsd.jpg)
Bit older video (1st may 2013) still with stock intercooler:
0-100km/H ~ 5.2sec
0-200km/H ~ 18sec
New intercooler build:
![[Image: vjs8x.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=vjs8x.jpg)
![[Image: 20130528_142054ufuur.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=20130528_142054ufuur.jpg)
![[Image: 20130528_142006cbuzl.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=20130528_142006cbuzl.jpg)
Not completly finished yet (cosmetics) but had to testdrive today ^^
IC works much better than the stock unit.
On sustained WOT (like in video above) before I see over 100 degrees celcius IAT, now it is about 40-43 degrees celcius.
While normal cruising IAT is about 3-5 degrees above ambient :-) (Before 20-30degrees)
Comparison between old stock intercooler (December 2012, -5 degrees ambient)
![[Image: screenshot_log_serienthukz.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=screenshot_log_serienthukz.jpg)
And new intercooler, today, 16 degrees ambient:
![[Image: screenshot_log_ic_teszkdnw.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=screenshot_log_ic_teszkdnw.jpg)
Clearly to see lower IAT, lower EGT, higher lambda.
Old stock intercooler created about 75 degrees positive temperature delta, new intercooler only ~28 degrees.
In fact boost could be lowered a little bit while keeping same power, with the benefit of more "open" VNT vanes, lower backpressure and maybe a bit lower EGT.....
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Some updates:
Bit older video (1st may 2013) still with stock intercooler:
0-100km/H ~ 5.2sec
0-200km/H ~ 18sec
New intercooler build:
Not completly finished yet (cosmetics) but had to testdrive today ^^
IC works much better than the stock unit.
On sustained WOT (like in video above) before I see over 100 degrees celcius IAT, now it is about 40-43 degrees celcius.
While normal cruising IAT is about 3-5 degrees above ambient :-) (Before 20-30degrees)
Comparison between old stock intercooler (December 2012, -5 degrees ambient)
And new intercooler, today, 16 degrees ambient:
Clearly to see lower IAT, lower EGT, higher lambda.
Old stock intercooler created about 75 degrees positive temperature delta, new intercooler only ~28 degrees.
In fact boost could be lowered a little bit while keeping same power, with the benefit of more "open" VNT vanes, lower backpressure and maybe a bit lower EGT.....
BR
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
). Did you cut the bumper? If so, are you using a protective net or what? I see you did not use a higher IC as Tuikku's.
Congrats!
W210, 2001, OM611.961 105kw, 6+1.
Don't forget to make some pictures with the hoses to IC connections (so that I can use a source of inspirations ).
Did you cut the bumper? If so, are you using a protective net or what? I see you did not use a higher IC as Tuikku's.
Congrats!
W210, 2001, OM611.961 105kw, 6+1.
Due to the 800mm with of the core + the with of the end tanks, the cooler is exactly as broad so that the meet up with the stock hoses position which leads to and from intercooler.
So there are just 2 pieces of straight aluminum welded on the rear of the end tanks and then connected to stock hoses. (removed the "click" adpaters which blew off several times)
The bumber is cut, on above pictures it is just the "raw" built to take it for test drive and see results.
The crash bar is not cut, this is still stock.
There will be some of this stuff used:
![[Image: gitteryqq0g.jpg]](http://abload.de/image.php?img=gitteryqq0g.jpg)
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
IC hoses connections is very simple.
Due to the 800mm with of the core + the with of the end tanks, the cooler is exactly as broad so that the meet up with the stock hoses position which leads to and from intercooler.
So there are just 2 pieces of straight aluminum welded on the rear of the end tanks and then connected to stock hoses. (removed the "click" adpaters which blew off several times)
The bumber is cut, on above pictures it is just the "raw" built to take it for test drive and see results.
The crash bar is not cut, this is still stock.
There will be some of this stuff used:
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
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