7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine
7,5 mm Element design for high performance engine
Just to look at, there is no visible difference other than the "powercamshaft" have a larger bearing in the back.
We can call it dieselmythbusters.
Who knows? Maybee its thru? Someone that knows?
Fact will come to STD forum soon, keep yourself updated
For the moment I have 6 mm 606 element in a RS158 pump done with graph and so on. Cred to Tomnik for the math & graphic.
Moore will come to compare with.
OT, On the big P3000-7000-seriepumps for pulling that I have done, the cams have been grinded to give a bigger lift on the element and also the duration is changed, we talking 13mm 1000ccm &1000rpm of fuel.
That have not been done by me, Ketner Denmark is very good at this and have the right stuff to do the work.
dieselmeken
03-30-2012, 04:57 AM #101I have recently started a little project concerning the duration on different sizes of element & camshafts. When I have all the facts around it I will write it down, but its a h*** of a job, then maybee we can crush the myth about "camshaft over this and that number gives 5 % moore power" etc.
Just to look at, there is no visible difference other than the "powercamshaft" have a larger bearing in the back.
We can call it dieselmythbusters.
Who knows? Maybee its thru? Someone that knows?
Fact will come to STD forum soon, keep yourself updated
For the moment I have 6 mm 606 element in a RS158 pump done with graph and so on. Cred to Tomnik for the math & graphic.
Moore will come to compare with.
OT, On the big P3000-7000-seriepumps for pulling that I have done, the cams have been grinded to give a bigger lift on the element and also the duration is changed, we talking 13mm 1000ccm &1000rpm of fuel.
That have not been done by me, Ketner Denmark is very good at this and have the right stuff to do the work.
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
(03-30-2012, 05:15 PM)mantahead hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
"more duration in shorter time" ????
you might know that a sharper cam profile also increases stress?
Do you think that Bosch did many years of development for nothing?
Increased lift means to change rollers, correct plunger geometry and position of supply bore... what is the benefit if you can do it better with larger elements?
For sure such a pump will work but at what cost and how long?
I don't think that some theory comments are irrelevant as this is physics and not only book theory...
Tom
(03-30-2012, 05:15 PM)mantahead hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
"more duration in shorter time" ????
you might know that a sharper cam profile also increases stress?
Do you think that Bosch did many years of development for nothing?
Increased lift means to change rollers, correct plunger geometry and position of supply bore... what is the benefit if you can do it better with larger elements?
For sure such a pump will work but at what cost and how long?
I don't think that some theory comments are irrelevant as this is physics and not only book theory...
Tom
(03-30-2012, 05:15 PM)mantahead hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
A pump cam has nothing to do with an engine cam. If you are a mechanic you should know that. I don't think it is necessary to explain the difference between a pump and a 4 stroke engine
Duration IS time so more duration is more time and vise versa.
A higher lift can will only make the plunger go past the supply bore and nothing will be gained so you don't have to try to know that it does not work.
Me and I guess everyone here are very interested in Tomnik, Alastair E and others theory comments so if you don't think they are relevant, don't read them.
(03-30-2012, 05:15 PM)mantahead hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
A pump cam has nothing to do with an engine cam. If you are a mechanic you should know that. I don't think it is necessary to explain the difference between a pump and a 4 stroke engine
Duration IS time so more duration is more time and vise versa.
A higher lift can will only make the plunger go past the supply bore and nothing will be gained so you don't have to try to know that it does not work.
Me and I guess everyone here are very interested in Tomnik, Alastair E and others theory comments so if you don't think they are relevant, don't read them.
(03-31-2012, 02:40 AM)erling66hi,(03-30-2012, 05:15 PM)mantahead hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
A pump cam has nothing to do with an engine cam. If you are a mechanic you should know that. I don't think it is necessary to explain the difference between a pump and a 4 stroke engine
Duration IS time so more duration is more time and vise versa.
A higher lift can will only make the plunger go past the supply bore and nothing will be gained so you don't have to try to know that it does not work.
Me and I guess everyone here are very interested in Tomnik, Alastair E and others theory comments so if you don't think they are relevant, don't read them.
good point Erling.
You don't need to explain i will; too many beers. sorry Alastair E and Tomnik.
What i shoud have said was: if the cam was modified that the plunger closed quicker, would this help with EGTs? Although it would shorten duration if i'm correct, so that means less fuel.
(03-31-2012, 02:40 AM)erling66hi,(03-30-2012, 05:15 PM)mantahead hi,
i have to agree with Dieselmercs comments. Surely a pump cam is like an engine cam, with more duration in shorter time. Engine cams make a big difference in power so should pump cams. Unless you have tried a high lift pump cam and proved it does not work then, theory comments from Tomnik and Alastair E are irrelevant.
A lot of the time things don't go by the book.
A pump cam has nothing to do with an engine cam. If you are a mechanic you should know that. I don't think it is necessary to explain the difference between a pump and a 4 stroke engine
Duration IS time so more duration is more time and vise versa.
A higher lift can will only make the plunger go past the supply bore and nothing will be gained so you don't have to try to know that it does not work.
Me and I guess everyone here are very interested in Tomnik, Alastair E and others theory comments so if you don't think they are relevant, don't read them.
good point Erling.
You don't need to explain i will; too many beers. sorry Alastair E and Tomnik.
What i shoud have said was: if the cam was modified that the plunger closed quicker, would this help with EGTs? Although it would shorten duration if i'm correct, so that means less fuel.
I know too well what effect too many beers can have on ones logic
Dieselmerc wrote:
"different camshafts in pumps with rs under 173 and those with rs over 173? according to the finns you will get significant more power from the higher rs number due to "quicker" injection time, for exampel you get aboat 460hp (om606) with older camshaft and aboat 570hp with newer model camshaft according to the finns,(with 170cc)"
I will assume this statement is correct and try to explain why I think it is so. I am sure old and new 603 cams has the same lift(in mm) since they both are installed in pumps with the same elements. I am also quite sure the duration(the time there is a lift) is the same. There is no point in making it shorter or longer. The difference is in the cam profile, how long time it takes from lift starts until full lift. So with a 7mm pump and full rack travel, some of the fuel will be injected to late(to give hp) but with the sharper cam profile, more of this fuel will burnt(to give the extra hp gain)
A sharper cam profile gives a higher stress(and other problems) so I agree with TOMNIK, the only good solution is to increase the element diameter. If 7.5mm gives you the fuel you can burn, great. And if not, try to design an even larger element
Hi mantahead
I know too well what effect too many beers can have on ones logic
Dieselmerc wrote:
"different camshafts in pumps with rs under 173 and those with rs over 173? according to the finns you will get significant more power from the higher rs number due to "quicker" injection time, for exampel you get aboat 460hp (om606) with older camshaft and aboat 570hp with newer model camshaft according to the finns,(with 170cc)"
I will assume this statement is correct and try to explain why I think it is so. I am sure old and new 603 cams has the same lift(in mm) since they both are installed in pumps with the same elements. I am also quite sure the duration(the time there is a lift) is the same. There is no point in making it shorter or longer. The difference is in the cam profile, how long time it takes from lift starts until full lift. So with a 7mm pump and full rack travel, some of the fuel will be injected to late(to give hp) but with the sharper cam profile, more of this fuel will burnt(to give the extra hp gain)
A sharper cam profile gives a higher stress(and other problems) so I agree with TOMNIK, the only good solution is to increase the element diameter. If 7.5mm gives you the fuel you can burn, great. And if not, try to design an even larger element
(03-29-2012, 04:46 PM)dieselmerc(03-29-2012, 10:19 AM)Alastair E Dieselmerc...Yes i know you need air.... I wrote that the boost increases with more diesel, my point was that more diesel=more boost, if you only have diesel enough to get right mixture at 2bar you wont get much more boost, (don't know how to explain) hope you understand.
With respect--You Also Need AIR to fully utilise that extra fuel!
Modifying the Camshaft in the pump isnt such a great idea.
And I am not talking aboat regrinding cams, I am talking aboat that pumps with rs number over 172 has a "sharper" cam then the older, which will give shorter injection time and more power, I'm with you there that shorter injection time is wanted to burn it efficientely. You can clearely hear sharper knocking from pump (7mm) with newer camshaft vs older
)) low boost, big power = good engine setup
so not every time when you increase your boost you gain more power...
(03-29-2012, 04:46 PM)dieselmerc(03-29-2012, 10:19 AM)Alastair E Dieselmerc...Yes i know you need air.... I wrote that the boost increases with more diesel, my point was that more diesel=more boost, if you only have diesel enough to get right mixture at 2bar you wont get much more boost, (don't know how to explain) hope you understand.
With respect--You Also Need AIR to fully utilise that extra fuel!
Modifying the Camshaft in the pump isnt such a great idea.
And I am not talking aboat regrinding cams, I am talking aboat that pumps with rs number over 172 has a "sharper" cam then the older, which will give shorter injection time and more power, I'm with you there that shorter injection time is wanted to burn it efficientely. You can clearely hear sharper knocking from pump (7mm) with newer camshaft vs older
)) low boost, big power = good engine setup
so not every time when you increase your boost you gain more power...
swecias, big power with low bost is like you said when you have a good set up, but if we simplify it a little that a certain amount of fuel and air at right mixture has a certain amount of energi(of course it is to many variebles to look at to say exactly the hp the engine will get), so when for example you get 400hp on om603 with 3 bar, and 400hp on om606 at aboat 2bar the engines get the same amount of air(not exactly due to maybye more effiecient burning in om606, but i am simplifying to make it easier to understand), and increasing boost and still having diesel to supply the extra air you WILL earn power, except if you turbo is bottumed out so it pumps to hot air or gets too high back pressure.
please don´t missread this, if you know the basic function of internal combustion engines you will understand what i said.
it is all physics, EVERYTHING can be calculated, but it´s advanced
dieselmerc
04-01-2012, 09:23 AM #108because most people here have some problems with understanding what i am saying. i´m NOT talking aboat regrinding cams, I am talking aboat that bosch (like you say KNOW what they are doing) have a different cam design in their newer pumps with rs over 172, they UPPGRADED the cam to one with "shorter" injection for more clean burn.
swecias, big power with low bost is like you said when you have a good set up, but if we simplify it a little that a certain amount of fuel and air at right mixture has a certain amount of energi(of course it is to many variebles to look at to say exactly the hp the engine will get), so when for example you get 400hp on om603 with 3 bar, and 400hp on om606 at aboat 2bar the engines get the same amount of air(not exactly due to maybye more effiecient burning in om606, but i am simplifying to make it easier to understand), and increasing boost and still having diesel to supply the extra air you WILL earn power, except if you turbo is bottumed out so it pumps to hot air or gets too high back pressure.
please don´t missread this, if you know the basic function of internal combustion engines you will understand what i said.
it is all physics, EVERYTHING can be calculated, but it´s advanced
(04-01-2012, 09:23 AM)dieselmerc because most people here have some problems with understanding what i am saying. i´m NOT talking aboat regrinding cams, I am talking aboat that bosch (like you say KNOW what they are doing) have a different cam design in their newer pumps with rs over 172, they UPPGRADED the cam to one with "shorter" injection for more clean burn.
swecias, big power with low bost is like you said when you have a good set up, but if we simplify it a little that a certain amount of fuel and air at right mixture has a certain amount of energi(of course it is to many variebles to look at to say exactly the hp the engine will get), so when for example you get 400hp on om603 with 3 bar, and 400hp on om606 at aboat 2bar the engines get the same amount of air(not exactly due to maybye more effiecient burning in om606, but i am simplifying to make it easier to understand), and increasing boost and still having diesel to supply the extra air you WILL earn power, except if you turbo is bottumed out so it pumps to hot air or gets too high back pressure.
please don´t missread this, if you know the basic function of internal combustion engines you will understand what i said.
it is all physics, EVERYTHING can be calculated, but it´s advanced
I agree with what you say. Since we both don't write perfect English, it can be misread sometimes. But do you have any videos on Youtube? Interesting to see what the Northern Swedish guys are doing to their Mercedes diesels
After reading your posts, I checked my pump and it ended with RS180
(04-01-2012, 09:23 AM)dieselmerc because most people here have some problems with understanding what i am saying. i´m NOT talking aboat regrinding cams, I am talking aboat that bosch (like you say KNOW what they are doing) have a different cam design in their newer pumps with rs over 172, they UPPGRADED the cam to one with "shorter" injection for more clean burn.
swecias, big power with low bost is like you said when you have a good set up, but if we simplify it a little that a certain amount of fuel and air at right mixture has a certain amount of energi(of course it is to many variebles to look at to say exactly the hp the engine will get), so when for example you get 400hp on om603 with 3 bar, and 400hp on om606 at aboat 2bar the engines get the same amount of air(not exactly due to maybye more effiecient burning in om606, but i am simplifying to make it easier to understand), and increasing boost and still having diesel to supply the extra air you WILL earn power, except if you turbo is bottumed out so it pumps to hot air or gets too high back pressure.
please don´t missread this, if you know the basic function of internal combustion engines you will understand what i said.
it is all physics, EVERYTHING can be calculated, but it´s advanced
I agree with what you say. Since we both don't write perfect English, it can be misread sometimes. But do you have any videos on Youtube? Interesting to see what the Northern Swedish guys are doing to their Mercedes diesels
After reading your posts, I checked my pump and it ended with RS180
hold on to that pump then
dieselmerc
04-02-2012, 08:50 AM #110this is with my old engine set up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECKP5jY0Ne4, there i were in the "amazed that it works" stage. now I´m building a more serious om606 and will try out "specials"
hold on to that pump then
Im not reay to give up yet, just a backfire in my planning.
dieselmeken
04-02-2012, 10:56 AM #111Today, a BIG BACKFIRE, Kick in the ass, call it what you want. The factory sendt me a sample of the 7,5 mm element, Not usable at all. I have tryed everything now, I will no longer work with that factory, they have caused me only pain and a lot of cash. New factory contact made today, however no respose yet. This really sucks horsedicks.
Im not reay to give up yet, just a backfire in my planning.
Ed
yankneck696
04-02-2012, 05:47 PM #112Keep the faith, Brother.... Dealing with non caring companies just sucks !!!
Ed
(04-02-2012, 10:56 AM)dieselmeken Im not reay to give up yet, just a backfire in my planning.
Keep up the good work!
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
04-02-2012, 09:33 PM #113(04-02-2012, 10:56 AM)dieselmeken Im not reay to give up yet, just a backfire in my planning.
Keep up the good work!
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
(04-03-2012, 12:13 PM)2996 Hang in there! This thread started off great, and is turning into one of the best out there
Yup. Always watching. Someday purchasing. :-)
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
04-03-2012, 12:48 PM #115(04-03-2012, 12:13 PM)2996 Hang in there! This thread started off great, and is turning into one of the best out there
Yup. Always watching. Someday purchasing. :-)
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
iheartboost
04-03-2012, 09:13 PM #116your the man dieselmeken!
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
For your information, I have made contact with another factory that can help me, but as always, 3 monts away.
I have a friend here in Sweden, he is from Finland, he helped me today and phoned to Pekka Herlevi at herlevi.fi, the guy that did jeemus pump. He had a nice chat with him, but they could not sell any element to me.
so i must keep on fighting on. They only build pumps by them self.BTW Herlevi charged 1100-1200 euro for their 8 mm 240cc!!!!!pump. Question is, who can burn 240 cc in a OM6** engine???
Maybee Jeemu can
I will update as soon as I have anyting. / Göran
dieselmeken
04-05-2012, 01:55 PM #117Thanks to you all for your support. Im really glad that this topic is estimated by you all.
For your information, I have made contact with another factory that can help me, but as always, 3 monts away.
I have a friend here in Sweden, he is from Finland, he helped me today and phoned to Pekka Herlevi at herlevi.fi, the guy that did jeemus pump. He had a nice chat with him, but they could not sell any element to me. so i must keep on fighting on. They only build pumps by them self.
BTW Herlevi charged 1100-1200 euro for their 8 mm 240cc!!!!!pump. Question is, who can burn 240 cc in a OM6** engine???
Maybee Jeemu can
I will update as soon as I have anyting. / Göran
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
iheartboost
04-05-2012, 07:05 PM #118im sure youll get it figured out! and 3 months is good for me haha. ill have money by then to send you my pump!
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
Keep it up buddy!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
04-09-2012, 03:29 AM #119WHERE THE F**K ARE MY STICKERS!
Keep it up buddy!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
(04-09-2012, 03:29 AM)Captain America WHERE THE F**K ARE MY STICKERS!
Keep it up buddy!
Yeah, Where are they??? Hwo was it that sholud fix this?
They did arrive in cyprys! http://www.facebook.com/dieselmeken
dieselmeken
04-09-2012, 03:36 AM #120(04-09-2012, 03:29 AM)Captain America WHERE THE F**K ARE MY STICKERS!
Keep it up buddy!
Yeah, Where are they??? Hwo was it that sholud fix this?
They did arrive in cyprys! http://www.facebook.com/dieselmeken
After a lot of problem with the factory that should make my 7,5 mm element, I told them that our cooperation was over, and that I want the rest of the serie 1 element back for modification in Sweden, I got this in my mailbox.
Hello Goran,
We will send XXX pcs elements to you soon, together with the second serie elements. The 2nd serie will come out soon.
Hope it will work out .
Obviously my nagging has paid off, and Im waiting for a parcel now.
I have made contact with a new factory and made a order on some parts, elements, driveshafts, gasketkits etc just to see the quality. That parcel will arrive next week hopfully Not so much, just parts for app. 100 USD
Thev can make my element, but 3 months away. I will wait and se what factory #1 will do.
One moore thing, I have adjusted around 80pc serie 1 element and mounted them in around 10 pumps, the biggest problem is that the phasing have been wrong, it have been up to 4 degrees offset, that is far to much, tolerance is +-0,5 degree.
This is the main reason why I not sell the element as sparepart.
When putting in 6 mm original bosch element, usually there is no adjusting necessary, its use to bee ok when phasing the pump.
This phasing problem is not a big issue, I simply adjust it by changing the rollers in the lifter so the phasing is inbetween 0,5 degree.
I have rollers with 0,05mm difference for this. A lot of them!!
After a number of clients have comed back to me with positive feedback, I start to think that I maybee have to big quality requirements on my little project, The pumps work out well even with the serie 1 element.
However, quality is No 1 priority, I will wait until serie 2 arrive, then I come back to you all with a new update./
Göran Dieselmeken Lindgren
dieselmeken
04-11-2012, 01:00 PM #121Here is a small update.
After a lot of problem with the factory that should make my 7,5 mm element, I told them that our cooperation was over, and that I want the rest of the serie 1 element back for modification in Sweden, I got this in my mailbox.
Hello Goran,
We will send XXX pcs elements to you soon, together with the second serie elements. The 2nd serie will come out soon.
Hope it will work out .
Obviously my nagging has paid off, and Im waiting for a parcel now.
I have made contact with a new factory and made a order on some parts, elements, driveshafts, gasketkits etc just to see the quality. That parcel will arrive next week hopfully Not so much, just parts for app. 100 USD
Thev can make my element, but 3 months away. I will wait and se what factory #1 will do.
One moore thing, I have adjusted around 80pc serie 1 element and mounted them in around 10 pumps, the biggest problem is that the phasing have been wrong, it have been up to 4 degrees offset, that is far to much, tolerance is +-0,5 degree.
This is the main reason why I not sell the element as sparepart.
When putting in 6 mm original bosch element, usually there is no adjusting necessary, its use to bee ok when phasing the pump.
This phasing problem is not a big issue, I simply adjust it by changing the rollers in the lifter so the phasing is inbetween 0,5 degree.
I have rollers with 0,05mm difference for this. A lot of them!!
After a number of clients have comed back to me with positive feedback, I start to think that I maybee have to big quality requirements on my little project, The pumps work out well even with the serie 1 element.
However, quality is No 1 priority, I will wait until serie 2 arrive, then I come back to you all with a new update./
Göran Dieselmeken Lindgren
This is how long time it takes to complet the injection.
I Only have 2 elements to compare, Original Bosch 6 mm for OM606 and my own 7,5 mm element
All degree are pumpdegree.
95ccm of fuel 6 mm need 19 degree (RS158 camshaft)
95ccm of fuel 7,5 mm need 12,5 degree (RS180 camshaft)
that 6,5 pumpdegree less 13 engine degree.
Now, its up to you to reply whitch of these two that gives the best result in the engine. Fuel amount is the same.
Another test with the RS 202 camshaft will come up when I got the time for it.
dieselmeken
04-17-2012, 12:12 AM #123Here is some result concering element duration that I have done in my workshop.
This is how long time it takes to complet the injection.
I Only have 2 elements to compare, Original Bosch 6 mm for OM606 and my own 7,5 mm element
All degree are pumpdegree.
95ccm of fuel 6 mm need 19 degree (RS158 camshaft)
95ccm of fuel 7,5 mm need 12,5 degree (RS180 camshaft)
that 6,5 pumpdegree less 13 engine degree.
Now, its up to you to reply whitch of these two that gives the best result in the engine. Fuel amount is the same.
Another test with the RS 202 camshaft will come up when I got the time for it.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
04-17-2012, 01:54 AM #124I vote #2 - 95ccm of fuel 7,5 mm need 12,5 degree (RS180 camshaft) - will give better results.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
300SD former police vehicle from southern California?
check.
amg wheels powdercoated black?
check
performance injectors and pump?
need.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/76267949@N0.../lightbox/
300SD former police vehicle from southern California?
check.
amg wheels powdercoated black?
check
performance injectors and pump?
need.
EDH_Performance
04-27-2012, 05:56 AM #128Dieselmeken is a bad man!!!! He build you a pump that make the clutch slip, destroys your gearbox, snapps both your axles, make the hardyplate explode...But still we love him?? Whats wrong with this world
(04-27-2012, 05:56 AM)EDH_Performance Dieselmeken is a bad man!!!! He build you a pump that make the clutch slip, destroys your gearbox, snapps both your axles, make the hardyplate explode...But still we love him?? Whats wrong with this world
Some people still wants moore fuel than my element can produce, But I think that its because its ccm that is marketed on all forums around the world, no one talks about duration until now a days.
Yes Im a bad man, But a wery nice bad man
Hopfully it will hold for you now after rebuilding the shafts and so on. I have a rear axel from a BMW M5 2002 if it dont hold for you.
dieselmeken
04-27-2012, 06:29 AM #129(04-27-2012, 05:56 AM)EDH_Performance Dieselmeken is a bad man!!!! He build you a pump that make the clutch slip, destroys your gearbox, snapps both your axles, make the hardyplate explode...But still we love him?? Whats wrong with this world
Some people still wants moore fuel than my element can produce, But I think that its because its ccm that is marketed on all forums around the world, no one talks about duration until now a days.
Yes Im a bad man, But a wery nice bad man
Hopfully it will hold for you now after rebuilding the shafts and so on. I have a rear axel from a BMW M5 2002 if it dont hold for you.
(04-27-2012, 06:29 AM)dieselmeken(04-27-2012, 05:56 AM)EDH_Performance Dieselmeken is a bad man!!!! He build you a pump that make the clutch slip, destroys your gearbox, snapps both your axles, make the hardyplate explode...But still we love him?? Whats wrong with this world
Some people still wants moore fuel than my element can produce, But I think that its because its ccm that is marketed on all forums around the world, no one talks about duration until now a days.
Yes Im a bad man, But a wery nice bad man
Hopfully it will hold for you now after rebuilding the shafts and so on. I have a rear axel from a BMW M5 2002 if it dont hold for you.
The last weak link in my driveline now is the propshaft
But I will sort this out next week
Then I will post a update in my thread!
EDH_Performance
04-27-2012, 06:35 AM #130(04-27-2012, 06:29 AM)dieselmeken(04-27-2012, 05:56 AM)EDH_Performance Dieselmeken is a bad man!!!! He build you a pump that make the clutch slip, destroys your gearbox, snapps both your axles, make the hardyplate explode...But still we love him?? Whats wrong with this world
Some people still wants moore fuel than my element can produce, But I think that its because its ccm that is marketed on all forums around the world, no one talks about duration until now a days.
Yes Im a bad man, But a wery nice bad man
Hopfully it will hold for you now after rebuilding the shafts and so on. I have a rear axel from a BMW M5 2002 if it dont hold for you.
The last weak link in my driveline now is the propshaft
But I will sort this out next weekThen I will post a update in my thread!
(04-27-2012, 05:38 PM)winmutt EDH: please take pics of your destroyed parts or it didnt happen.
I will post pictures tomorow
Here is just minutes before the bolt to the propshaft snapped!
Dieselmeken series 1 elements kick some ass!
We are in 2,3 and forth gear in the video...EDH_Performance
05-01-2012, 09:51 AM #132(04-27-2012, 05:38 PM)winmutt EDH: please take pics of your destroyed parts or it didnt happen.
I will post pictures tomorow
Here is just minutes before the bolt to the propshaft snapped!
Dieselmeken series 1 elements kick some ass!
We are in 2,3 and forth gear in the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRGJr8uLO...e=youtu.be
stock elements at full adjustment...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceRJHB8a2...e=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp9tNvlEX...e=youtu.be
My car still waiting for the elements ;/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRGJr8uLO...e=youtu.be
stock elements at full adjustment...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceRJHB8a2...e=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp9tNvlEX...e=youtu.be
*1984 Mercedes S123 300TD turbodiesel*
*1993 BMW 525tdsT*
*1990 BMW 524 turbodiesel*
*1983 BMW 745iA e23*
*1969 BMW 3.0csl racecar*
Diesel-Wiking
05-01-2012, 04:08 PM #134Keep up the great work Göran! I will propably give you all the work with my om617a-pump when the time comes. I need to finish some other projects before that. I will for sure follow this thread and be your future customer
*1984 Mercedes S123 300TD turbodiesel*
*1993 BMW 525tdsT*
*1990 BMW 524 turbodiesel*
*1983 BMW 745iA e23*
*1969 BMW 3.0csl racecar*
Start at Emmaboda 19 May.
dieselmeken
05-02-2012, 02:21 AM #135Thanks for all support, The EDH_performance OM606 sounds really nice, Why dont you come down to Sweden to Bilsport Action meet and drive some 402m or some drifting?
Start at Emmaboda 19 May.
(05-02-2012, 02:21 AM)dieselmeken Thanks for all support, The EDH_performance OM606 sounds really nice, Why dont you come down to Sweden to Bilsport Action meet and drive some 402m or some drifting?
Start at Emmaboda 19 May.
Hmm, my exam is the 18.may and my firends wedding is the 19th...But i will like to visit you someday when i am in sweden!
EDH_Performance
05-04-2012, 08:05 AM #136(05-02-2012, 02:21 AM)dieselmeken Thanks for all support, The EDH_performance OM606 sounds really nice, Why dont you come down to Sweden to Bilsport Action meet and drive some 402m or some drifting?
Start at Emmaboda 19 May.
Hmm, my exam is the 18.may and my firends wedding is the 19th...But i will like to visit you someday when i am in sweden!
http://youtu.be/7MG9UM9KT0M
dieselmeken
05-04-2012, 10:19 AM #137Another proof that serie 1 element works quite OK. This one is from Cyprus.
http://youtu.be/7MG9UM9KT0M
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
George3soccer
05-04-2012, 11:45 AM #138Wonderful. Great chassis too
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
eager to hear about new IP options! keep up the good work.
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
These 3 dimensions however, can be adjusted back home in Sweden. That is what I have done with the first 80 element, Now I have 100 moore that need adjusting, that is on its way now.
Buisiness with that company is now over for good.
From my "new" factory I have ordered some samples, just to see the quality, after that I will send over a sample to them for pricing & production. Hopfully this will work out better than with #1.
I have had some thougs regarding the 8 mm element, maybee do one serie with a very short duration time and maybee 170-180ccm of fuel instead of doing it whit long duration and 230ccm of fuel?
The thing is that the wall in the element is thin with 7,5, even thinner with 8 mm, Im afraid that it will crack and make a pumpmeltdown..
I keep on working, now there is 7,5 mm element, 140cc of fuel in the shop, not for sale however, but I can build up your M-pump now.
dieselmeken
05-11-2012, 11:11 AM #141Thursday 2012-05-10, After a lot of e-mail, msn-chatt etc etc, factory #1 did send back my faulty serie 1 element, The could do a nice element, but not follow the drawing, so 3 different dimensions was wrong.
These 3 dimensions however, can be adjusted back home in Sweden. That is what I have done with the first 80 element, Now I have 100 moore that need adjusting, that is on its way now.
Buisiness with that company is now over for good.
From my "new" factory I have ordered some samples, just to see the quality, after that I will send over a sample to them for pricing & production. Hopfully this will work out better than with #1.
I have had some thougs regarding the 8 mm element, maybee do one serie with a very short duration time and maybee 170-180ccm of fuel instead of doing it whit long duration and 230ccm of fuel?
The thing is that the wall in the element is thin with 7,5, even thinner with 8 mm, Im afraid that it will crack and make a pumpmeltdown..
I keep on working, now there is 7,5 mm element, 140cc of fuel in the shop, not for sale however, but I can build up your M-pump now.
dieselmerc
05-13-2012, 09:49 AM #142must be anoying that a factory can´t make it as in drawings, how can that even be possible? but how have mynä and herlevi done to make 8mm then?
Im glad that I have my serie 1 now, so I can keep on building pumps, the only thing is that I dont know how much power the perform. Enough is a good, but how much is enough?
Soon I give up all this and run only 7,5 mm, No need to bee the guy that have 230cc, no one can burn it I think, if so the engine work must be EDH_performance style and not everybody can do that.
I stay at my 130-140cc with short injection time and reliability
Hi Goran,
Good day to you.
I am very sorry to inform you that our engineer confirmed that he can't do develope for you.
And our production line is so busy now, delivery time will be long, more that 4 months.
Please kinly find other supplier to do develop for you soon to save your time.
Sorry again for any inconvenience for you.
dieselmeken
05-22-2012, 04:41 AM #143New backfire today, This was in my mailbox this morning.
Im glad that I have my serie 1 now, so I can keep on building pumps, the only thing is that I dont know how much power the perform. Enough is a good, but how much is enough?
Soon I give up all this and run only 7,5 mm, No need to bee the guy that have 230cc, no one can burn it I think, if so the engine work must be EDH_performance style and not everybody can do that.
I stay at my 130-140cc with short injection time and reliability
Hi Goran,
Good day to you.
I am very sorry to inform you that our engineer confirmed that he can't do develope for you.
And our production line is so busy now, delivery time will be long, more that 4 months.
Please kinly find other supplier to do develop for you soon to save your time.
Sorry again for any inconvenience for you.
EDH_Performance
05-22-2012, 06:32 AM #144Dont give up mate!
Those who wait for something good, don't wait in vain
(05-22-2012, 04:41 AM)dieselmeken and run only 7,5 mm
I stay at my 130-140cc with short injection time and reliability
our engineer confirmed that he can't do develope for you.
Hi Göran,
bigger than 7.5mm not possible?
For what reason?
The company that does the series 1 can't do your new elements?
And why "develop" for you?? Didn't you give them your drawing like you did for your 7.5mm?
Don't give up man, the bigger the elements the better, even with stock turbo I gained smokeless power from the SuperFloyd.
Not for the public yet after only about 8000 km hard driving...
Tom
(05-22-2012, 04:41 AM)dieselmeken and run only 7,5 mm
I stay at my 130-140cc with short injection time and reliability
our engineer confirmed that he can't do develope for you.
Hi Göran,
bigger than 7.5mm not possible?
For what reason?
The company that does the series 1 can't do your new elements?
And why "develop" for you?? Didn't you give them your drawing like you did for your 7.5mm?
Don't give up man, the bigger the elements the better, even with stock turbo I gained smokeless power from the SuperFloyd.
Not for the public yet after only about 8000 km hard driving...
Tom
(05-22-2012, 02:36 PM)tomnik(05-22-2012, 04:41 AM)dieselmeken and run only 7,5 mm
I stay at my 130-140cc with short injection time and reliability
our engineer confirmed that he can't do develope for you.
Hi Göran,
bigger than 7.5mm not possible?
For what reason?
The company that does the series 1 can't do your new elements?
And why "develop" for you?? Didn't you give them your drawing like you did for your 7.5mm?
Don't give up man, the bigger the elements the better, even with stock turbo I gained smokeless power from the SuperFloyd.
Not for the public yet after only about 8000 km hard driving...
Tom
Hi Tom.
The reason? Read below, I got this back in my mailbox.
They cant produce it, the wall is to thin they say. This was thanks and goodbye to factory #2, Now its time for the next search
Yes they got my drawing.
No I will not give up yet, problem is that summer is here and a lot of my customers want their pumps back so they can go drifting. I will fix this, but it takes time.
Hi Goran,
Good day to you.
Yes, I am serious.
Our engineer tell me that it's not easy to do wall so thin...
Even 7.5 mm is not easy for us.
And our production is very busy.
So our manager and engineer don't want to take this risk to waste both of our time.
I am so sorry that we make you disappointment.
Please kindly check with other supplier as soon as possible.
Good lucy. Hope you will find the supplier soon.
dieselmeken
05-23-2012, 01:23 AM #146(05-22-2012, 02:36 PM)tomnik(05-22-2012, 04:41 AM)dieselmeken and run only 7,5 mm
I stay at my 130-140cc with short injection time and reliability
our engineer confirmed that he can't do develope for you.
Hi Göran,
bigger than 7.5mm not possible?
For what reason?
The company that does the series 1 can't do your new elements?
And why "develop" for you?? Didn't you give them your drawing like you did for your 7.5mm?
Don't give up man, the bigger the elements the better, even with stock turbo I gained smokeless power from the SuperFloyd.
Not for the public yet after only about 8000 km hard driving...
Tom
Hi Tom.
The reason? Read below, I got this back in my mailbox.
They cant produce it, the wall is to thin they say. This was thanks and goodbye to factory #2, Now its time for the next search
Yes they got my drawing.
No I will not give up yet, problem is that summer is here and a lot of my customers want their pumps back so they can go drifting. I will fix this, but it takes time.
Hi Goran,
Good day to you.
Yes, I am serious.
Our engineer tell me that it's not easy to do wall so thin...
Even 7.5 mm is not easy for us.
And our production is very busy.
So our manager and engineer don't want to take this risk to waste both of our time.
I am so sorry that we make you disappointment.
Please kindly check with other supplier as soon as possible.
Good lucy. Hope you will find the supplier soon.
(04-17-2012, 12:12 AM)dieselmeken Here is some result concering element duration that I have done in my workshop.
This is how long time it takes to complet the injection.
I Only have 2 elements to compare, Original Bosch 6 mm for OM606 and my own 7,5 mm element
All degree are pumpdegree.
95ccm of fuel 6 mm need 19 degree (RS158 camshaft)
95ccm of fuel 7,5 mm need 12,5 degree (RS180 camshaft)
that 6,5 pumpdegree less 13 engine degree.
Now, its up to you to reply whitch of these two that gives the best result in the engine. Fuel amount is the same.
Another test with the RS 202 camshaft will come up when I got the time for it.
Seems like I missed something, which maybe someone can explain to me....
As the earlier discussions says the camshaft angles are different over/under camshaft numbers of RS172.
So does it make sense to compare different element diameters with different camshafts?!
@dieselmeken
It would only make sense to me if you have the camshaft profile on paper an can recalculate the results.
Gruß
Volker
(04-17-2012, 12:12 AM)dieselmeken Here is some result concering element duration that I have done in my workshop.
This is how long time it takes to complet the injection.
I Only have 2 elements to compare, Original Bosch 6 mm for OM606 and my own 7,5 mm element
All degree are pumpdegree.
95ccm of fuel 6 mm need 19 degree (RS158 camshaft)
95ccm of fuel 7,5 mm need 12,5 degree (RS180 camshaft)
that 6,5 pumpdegree less 13 engine degree.
Now, its up to you to reply whitch of these two that gives the best result in the engine. Fuel amount is the same.
Another test with the RS 202 camshaft will come up when I got the time for it.
Seems like I missed something, which maybe someone can explain to me....
As the earlier discussions says the camshaft angles are different over/under camshaft numbers of RS172.
So does it make sense to compare different element diameters with different camshafts?!
@dieselmeken
It would only make sense to me if you have the camshaft profile on paper an can recalculate the results.
Gruß
Volker
(05-28-2012, 04:20 AM)Volker407(04-17-2012, 12:12 AM)dieselmeken Another test with the RS 202 camshaft will come up when I got the time for it.
Seems like I missed something, which maybe someone can explain to me....
As the earlier discussions says the camshaft angles are different over/under camshaft numbers of RS172.
So does it make sense to compare different element diameters with different camshafts?!
@dieselmeken
It would only make sense to me if you have the camshaft profile on paper an can recalculate the results.
Gruß
Volker
This is no rocketsience, this is just to give you a hint how it looks when 2 different elements is compared. The meaning is to show how long the injection is with a small element that goes on a long racktravel, thats all!
To start with camprofile etc, thats overkill to me.
dieselmeken
05-28-2012, 09:45 AM #148(05-28-2012, 04:20 AM)Volker407(04-17-2012, 12:12 AM)dieselmeken Another test with the RS 202 camshaft will come up when I got the time for it.
Seems like I missed something, which maybe someone can explain to me....
As the earlier discussions says the camshaft angles are different over/under camshaft numbers of RS172.
So does it make sense to compare different element diameters with different camshafts?!
@dieselmeken
It would only make sense to me if you have the camshaft profile on paper an can recalculate the results.
Gruß
Volker
This is no rocketsience, this is just to give you a hint how it looks when 2 different elements is compared. The meaning is to show how long the injection is with a small element that goes on a long racktravel, thats all!
To start with camprofile etc, thats overkill to me.
dieselmerc
05-30-2012, 10:41 AM #149but didn´t you do this to "bust" the myth aboat different camshafts? do then a test with same elements and different camshafts....
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